I'm sad that everybody ignore my short range teleporter proposalAssuming anyone would be stupid enough to send boarding parties over while there's still operational point defense.
Ship Capture?
- Thread starter S.C. Watson
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And, not ALL ships will have point defense. I mean, it's a tech, isn't it? That has to be researched? Right? Anyone? People? Bueller?
And extra complicated when the ships are built by weird creatures with different ways of thinking and possibly a different assortment of appendages. Good luck finding the proper control consoles, let alone understanding how they operate mid-battle.
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We're talking about a game with cute star foxes, space penguins and lonely, but friendship fevered fungoid overlords. I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE REALITY OF IT I WANT SHIP CAPTURE DAGNABBIT. [wheezing intensifies] ;P
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Actually the German fleet was only scuttled in 1919 after they had long been surrendered and placed under Entente custody - the officers and crew got narked about being stuck there for months while the victors argued over who'd get what ships from the spoils. (Even then guard ships still managed to wrest ~22 vessels back.) Much of the reason for Germany finally requesting an armistice in 1918 was due to sailors refusing to even face the enemy any more and mutinying rather than be forced out to sea - hence why Jutland tends to be judged as a tactical draw or even defeat for the British but an incredible strategic victory for them in the end.
This has bearing on the topic at hand as why should there not be a chance that forces mutiny as well as worlds and might even join with outside forces against their 'oppressors' bringing their vessels with them? Plus like with HoI4 mechanics - 'to the victor goes the spoils' - a complete defeat should result in the handing over of materiel (or even straight up tech - the Wehrmacht got a hell of a lot of advanced stuff out of the Czechs) in fleet terms it is part of Copenhagenisation for casus belli or sometimes just luck (like when the French nabbed the Dutch navy while it was frozen in). With the casus belli factor it could even be part of some 'arms race' mechanic - war, voluntary surrender or compromise/mutual disarmament.
In more recent terms, modern-day seaborne piracy is still a massive headache. Hence international taskforces patrolling the Gulf of Aden against Somalis as well as around Malacca and Guinea (not to mention river raiders scattered around the globe - even in the EU). Pirates inclined to take ships tend to use ruses to get close to large vessels, then use the element of surprise to overwhelm the crew/passengers, take the ship and then take it somewhere to be repainted while corrupt officials provide phony registration. The 'new' vessel can then be deployed in further schemes or simply sold away. If pirates can do it, why not marines or privateers?
As others have said - its not a priority right now but it'd certainly be nice to see as part of a future space pirate-ish expansion/dlc.
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Felt the need to jump in here, because of all the things I'd like to see added, boarding pods are at the top of MY list. We have all these modifiers for soilders physical strength, from traits to power armour research, all of which could be applied to boarding. I really like the idea of trying a strong race that makes up for its lack of high tech weapons by boarding the enemy.
And I really don't think it would be difficult to implement. I would go about it like this:
Research boarding. Boarding unlocks the boarding type corvette and boarding battle computers. A corvette with both will in battle fly to the nearest destroyer or bigger ship and attempt to deliver it's guests. It won't attempt to board a corvette because a corvette for corvette is an awful trade, which also would mean anyone who tried to rely completely on boarding would get trashed by an enemy corvette fleet, keeping things balanced. Do some kind of system, maybe cruisers need 2 boarding ships or maybe they take longer, I dunno. But stronger races would be better at it than weaker ones.
If nothing else it would be worth tinkering with to see if it would work. I see a lot of criticism like, "Oh well they could self destruct".... how is making my opponent self destruct a ship that is most likely at full hp a bad thing? It would only be bad if it was an equal or worst trade, and if it's a corvette that only locks on to larger hulls that probably won't happen. I think it could not only be really fun but could be a neat way to mix things up a little. If your opponent tries to spam cruisers and battleships with the idea bigger guns are op, you could really punish him when swift, hard to hit small corvettes suddenly start taking them over.
I dunno, just an idea. If anyone at Paradox reads this just want to say great job guys and whether boarding ever makes it or not I think it's an awesome game.
And I really don't think it would be difficult to implement. I would go about it like this:
Research boarding. Boarding unlocks the boarding type corvette and boarding battle computers. A corvette with both will in battle fly to the nearest destroyer or bigger ship and attempt to deliver it's guests. It won't attempt to board a corvette because a corvette for corvette is an awful trade, which also would mean anyone who tried to rely completely on boarding would get trashed by an enemy corvette fleet, keeping things balanced. Do some kind of system, maybe cruisers need 2 boarding ships or maybe they take longer, I dunno. But stronger races would be better at it than weaker ones.
If nothing else it would be worth tinkering with to see if it would work. I see a lot of criticism like, "Oh well they could self destruct".... how is making my opponent self destruct a ship that is most likely at full hp a bad thing? It would only be bad if it was an equal or worst trade, and if it's a corvette that only locks on to larger hulls that probably won't happen. I think it could not only be really fun but could be a neat way to mix things up a little. If your opponent tries to spam cruisers and battleships with the idea bigger guns are op, you could really punish him when swift, hard to hit small corvettes suddenly start taking them over.
I dunno, just an idea. If anyone at Paradox reads this just want to say great job guys and whether boarding ever makes it or not I think it's an awesome game.
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Opposed boarding of a space warship would be nothing but an exercise in masochism. First you need to cripple the ship in question badly enough to even give the boarding parties a chance to reach it without getting killed, but at the same time you'll want to avoid damaging it too badly so that you can quickly and inexpensively press it back into service. If there is too much work needed to bring it back into a fighting shape it would probably be preferable to just take it out of the fight for good. Next the boarding crews have to somehow breach what is likely metres of armour plating. Once inside every hatch will be closed to limit decompression to single compartments, each of which needs to be breached, thus decompressing the entire ship one hatch at a time. While the boarding parties do that and are continually forced to fight in vacuum and possibly zero gravity every corner and every hatch is a potential death trap, everyone moving aroundor tthroughthem easily hosed down with aautomatic weapons, lasers, and whatnot. All that to possibly capture a most likely severely damaged ship whose crew is going to try to scuttle it and the operation of which your people might possibly know nothing of.
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There is something unreal about cute star foxes, space penguins and fungoid overlords? Your universe is boring.
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While i do love 40K I don't think Boarding Actions are something we need in Stellaris.
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I don't think boarding actions against ships should ever result in the vessel being usable, even post engagement -- it should just be another way of breaking enemy ships, and not one which is terribly efficient.
What I do think though is that boarding action against civilian installations should be a thing -- rather than just shooting mining, research and space stations out of the sky you should be able to take them over. Not necessarily receive any resources from doing so while at war, but if you annex the system you then don't have to rebuild them.
(I also kinda think that boarding parties make most sense if troop transportation had to be done by real navy, not magic ships)
What I do think though is that boarding action against civilian installations should be a thing -- rather than just shooting mining, research and space stations out of the sky you should be able to take them over. Not necessarily receive any resources from doing so while at war, but if you annex the system you then don't have to rebuild them.
(I also kinda think that boarding parties make most sense if troop transportation had to be done by real navy, not magic ships)
Troop transports aren't any more magical than any other ship in the game. They still cost resources and time, they're just built alongside the army as a package deal.
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They could implement mechanics like those in nexus: Jupiter incident or X games where you have to destroy point defense first and than attempt to board
Well the problem I have with this is the crew would more than likely scuttle the ship than surrender it whole and intact. Also, in a Sci-Fi setting they would scuttle and just get in the life pods, shuttles, and/or teleport away to escape it seems to me.
They sunk themselves, because they didn't wanted to give the ships to their enemies and they mutinied because the war was already lost, when they were ordered to fight one last, pointless battle.
Having a mutiny mechanic opens a complete other can of worms.
That would generally only work after annexation.
Those are pirates attacking helpless merchant ships in very small boats. There is hardly an equivalent for that in space.
The biggest problem with capturing ships is, that you either have to make it random or very difficult or the players will just start to exploit it. Someone posted a picture of Homeworld in this thread and in this game, capturing enemy ships was an easy exploited mechanic to break the single player.
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Adding some swashbuckling boarding action would add an interesting alternative combat style to the combat. It would also make the "Weak" trait less attractive as the dump trait of choice for the min/maxers out there.
I don't think we're going to see it, though, until the "Trade and Privateers" expansion pack.
I don't think we're going to see it, though, until the "Trade and Privateers" expansion pack.
What stops your enemy from teleporting you right back into space? Or even better, into their own engine's exhaust trail? Crisp space marine coming right up.I'm sad that everybody ignore my short range teleporter proposal
Boarding gives an advantage to species that are good at ground combat. From what I've seen of ground combat any bonus seems a bit pointless when you could put your traits into anything else and so I think it should eventually be in the game.
In MOO3 I'd normally play as the Burathi(awesome at ground combat and not much else). The Antarans would attack and I'd always try to board them and to take their ships. Even then there'd be a 50% chance it would self-destruct. If you were successful would could get end game tech very early in the game. Very fun but overpowered. Be interesting trying this on fallen empires.
In MOO3 I'd normally play as the Burathi(awesome at ground combat and not much else). The Antarans would attack and I'd always try to board them and to take their ships. Even then there'd be a 50% chance it would self-destruct. If you were successful would could get end game tech very early in the game. Very fun but overpowered. Be interesting trying this on fallen empires.
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One thing is that you cannot micro manage any ship in combat, so disabling engines or point defense or other very specific maneuvers aren't really possible. I think if implemented it would just be a way to destroy a ship or have it fire on it's friends, or something else relatively simple.
Alot of people don't seem to want them, you guys realise that being in the game does not force you to use them, right? More options is never a bad thing.
Alot of people don't seem to want them, you guys realise that being in the game does not force you to use them, right? More options is never a bad thing.
This mechanic exists on MOO2 (I'm sure in other games as well). It can be strategically important, since warship technology can be recovered.