You can see that some of the "intel equipment" is turned on and cannot be turned off in the "radars view".
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You can see that some of the "intel equipment" is turned on and cannot be turned off in the "radars view".
Actually, the point about active radars is a good one. According to the datafiles CIWS wants an activate radar on the firing platform; I wonder if the ship will automatically activate one for defensive purposes? I know if you give an attack order with a weapon that needs a radar it will automatically turn on all the radars on that ship, but it would be interesting to know if it will do so in defence.
Also, the radar need for a CIWS might want to be revised; Phalanx atleast does not require any of the sensors listed on the ships to work, and indeed in many cases is not even fully linked into them, relying on its own integrated firecontrol radar to both identify and track targets. Im not sure about the Russian equivalents, but I cant imagine them to be too different.
Also, the radar need for a CIWS might want to be revised; Phalanx atleast does not require any of the sensors listed on the ships to work, and indeed in many cases is not even fully linked into them, relying on its own integrated firecontrol radar to both identify and track targets. Im not sure about the Russian equivalents, but I cant imagine them to be too different.
Elouda,
Weapons listed as requiring radar will cause the platform to go to active radar whether fired automatically or as a result of player orders. There is no difference between the two as far as the weapon logic is concerned.
What weapons really need active radar is sometimes hard to find out. We may take advice and specify which sensor should be turned on for which weapon.
Weapons listed as requiring radar will cause the platform to go to active radar whether fired automatically or as a result of player orders. There is no difference between the two as far as the weapon logic is concerned.
What weapons really need active radar is sometimes hard to find out. We may take advice and specify which sensor should be turned on for which weapon.
Yeah, I just tested this as I was curious. They do turn on their actives for self defence. I guess that should have been obvious, but it was just a stray thought early in the morning for a possible cause to the reluctance of CIWS to fire.
Some CIWS reluctance may be due to the extremely short reaction time involved. But I do see gatlings turn up on battle reports pretty often, so they do work.
I just started a discussion this Jan on the bug forum about cannons vs AShM. If you want to knock down AShM just manually go to the battle manager, select a cannon (hit% 90%) and blast away at the missiles. It seems to work very well in the Baltic encounter scenario. The russians could launch their entire arsenal against my hamina and i could shoot them all down with my bofors 57mm..
After just finishing the last NATO Mission I encountered several problems.
1) I lost several ships because the air defenses haven't worked. An incoming swarm of - for example - P-1000 Vulcan. Reaction of the Northern Landing Force? It started three ESSM after the P-1000 were ~10% in the maximum range of the ESSM.
After reaching RAM-Range, the WASP started two RAMs.
Of course I lost three ships. Not only they used too less rockets, most of these rockets missed their target (this might be realistic, I don't know), the RAM also had nearly no time to intercept and CIWS wasn't used at all - radar systems were online.
2) When I tried to act manually, I ran into some problems:
- I only have one mouse at my screen. I can't order Aster for far away missiles, RAM for middle ones and CIWS/Minigun on near targets at one time.
- Every weapon was slowy fired one by one. If I gave my three ships the order to use their CIWS I expect all three CIWS act at the same time at different targets.
- It's not possible to zoom this near in to select each missile out of a bulk. A pause-function with the possibility to give orders and/or an order list (attack this till destroyed, attack this three times, attack this two times, attack this till destroyed...) would really help out.
3) However, I'm not this far into this topic, but in my mind this is not realistic. When enemy missiles enter the zone the ships should automatically fire rockets - maybe one or two for each incoming missile. They should use the right defense system. In my games they started SM-2 or ESSM (my long-range capabilities) while the enemy is clearly in range of middle range rockets like Aster-15 or RAM.
What happens in the game is:
- crazy amount of rockets is started - either extremely too high in number or extremely too low
- wrong weapon is used - if I click the Sea Sparrow my ships should not start and waste SM-2 just because it's a rocket, too. And yes, I'm sure I clicked the right weapon system.
4) Short/middle range rockets like RAM but also Sea Sparrow and some CIWS-Systems have big problems: They start, they turn and BAM, the ship is down - no time for interception. I'm, as said, not a specialist on this topic, but I'm pretty sure in reality the weapons are able to be started and send to the incoming missiles and actually have time to intercept.
CIWS is a bit more extreme. Due to the short range (1-2nm) and the impossibility to use less than 1:1 time factor it's a hard thing to control the CIWS.
=> Most points weren't a big problem if the AI would act in a logical way. But as long as I'm forced to control every system seperately and by myself they count.
Funny side note, even it was already mentioned:
The - far - best anti-aircraft/missile weapon on ships are cannons like the BOFORS. They have enough range to make it possible to use them manually (because the AI prefers wasting rockets that have no time to intercet - see 4) ), they have a shot:kill ratio of about 1,2:1 and they act immediately, so no stupid "start the rocket in the wrong direction, return the rocket slowly, try to intercept the incoming rocket and maybe there's timeleft to actually fight against the incoming missile - not this would mean to kill it".
Don't get me wrong, I really like this game. But I'm pretty sure I would have stopped playing it without the Cannons to give me the possibility to actually destroy incoming missiles. And it would really reduce all these frustration moments if weapons are used automatically by AI in the right moment, in a not crazy extreme amount (at both sides) and/or an manually order list and a pause/very slow time function.
1) I lost several ships because the air defenses haven't worked. An incoming swarm of - for example - P-1000 Vulcan. Reaction of the Northern Landing Force? It started three ESSM after the P-1000 were ~10% in the maximum range of the ESSM.
After reaching RAM-Range, the WASP started two RAMs.
Of course I lost three ships. Not only they used too less rockets, most of these rockets missed their target (this might be realistic, I don't know), the RAM also had nearly no time to intercept and CIWS wasn't used at all - radar systems were online.
2) When I tried to act manually, I ran into some problems:
- I only have one mouse at my screen. I can't order Aster for far away missiles, RAM for middle ones and CIWS/Minigun on near targets at one time.
- Every weapon was slowy fired one by one. If I gave my three ships the order to use their CIWS I expect all three CIWS act at the same time at different targets.
- It's not possible to zoom this near in to select each missile out of a bulk. A pause-function with the possibility to give orders and/or an order list (attack this till destroyed, attack this three times, attack this two times, attack this till destroyed...) would really help out.
3) However, I'm not this far into this topic, but in my mind this is not realistic. When enemy missiles enter the zone the ships should automatically fire rockets - maybe one or two for each incoming missile. They should use the right defense system. In my games they started SM-2 or ESSM (my long-range capabilities) while the enemy is clearly in range of middle range rockets like Aster-15 or RAM.
What happens in the game is:
- crazy amount of rockets is started - either extremely too high in number or extremely too low
- wrong weapon is used - if I click the Sea Sparrow my ships should not start and waste SM-2 just because it's a rocket, too. And yes, I'm sure I clicked the right weapon system.
4) Short/middle range rockets like RAM but also Sea Sparrow and some CIWS-Systems have big problems: They start, they turn and BAM, the ship is down - no time for interception. I'm, as said, not a specialist on this topic, but I'm pretty sure in reality the weapons are able to be started and send to the incoming missiles and actually have time to intercept.
CIWS is a bit more extreme. Due to the short range (1-2nm) and the impossibility to use less than 1:1 time factor it's a hard thing to control the CIWS.
=> Most points weren't a big problem if the AI would act in a logical way. But as long as I'm forced to control every system seperately and by myself they count.
Funny side note, even it was already mentioned:
The - far - best anti-aircraft/missile weapon on ships are cannons like the BOFORS. They have enough range to make it possible to use them manually (because the AI prefers wasting rockets that have no time to intercet - see 4) ), they have a shot:kill ratio of about 1,2:1 and they act immediately, so no stupid "start the rocket in the wrong direction, return the rocket slowly, try to intercept the incoming rocket and maybe there's timeleft to actually fight against the incoming missile - not this would mean to kill it".
Don't get me wrong, I really like this game. But I'm pretty sure I would have stopped playing it without the Cannons to give me the possibility to actually destroy incoming missiles. And it would really reduce all these frustration moments if weapons are used automatically by AI in the right moment, in a not crazy extreme amount (at both sides) and/or an manually order list and a pause/very slow time function.
First, the "minimum - normal - overkill" options are settings for a specific attack you order, not the general setting for the unit. I agree this could be clearer.
Weapons that require active radar turns it on automatically when it decides to engage.
Weapons that require active radar turns it on automatically when it decides to engage.
I ran into the problem that the Visby-class corvett did not use the 57mm gun (only AA weapon it got for the moment) all the time. I wanted it to shot down everything hostile in range and sometimes it did shoot down for example missiles but then they had already gone half the way. Most of the time I had to target the missiles myself and then it instantly shoot them down with perfect hit ratio. So, why doesent the ship automaticaly shoot down missiles all the time, atleast try, and then do it when the missiles get into range and not wait to the critical moment?
I also experienced the problem that the norwegian ship didnt shoot down the missiles that targeted the visby-class so I had to do that myself aswell.
Now I'm not an radar expert but I use a AWACS aircraft to do most of the tracking targets and then I guess it sends the information in realtime to all of the other units in the faction. The ship gets the info like if it had used its own radar, but in a longer range and wont expose itself. I got the view thats how it works. If its 100% realistic or not or if the ships do need their radar anyway to track targets, I dont know.
I also experienced the problem that the norwegian ship didnt shoot down the missiles that targeted the visby-class so I had to do that myself aswell.
Now I'm not an radar expert but I use a AWACS aircraft to do most of the tracking targets and then I guess it sends the information in realtime to all of the other units in the faction. The ship gets the info like if it had used its own radar, but in a longer range and wont expose itself. I got the view thats how it works. If its 100% realistic or not or if the ships do need their radar anyway to track targets, I dont know.
Thanks REALIN,
Well, the reason is probably that we have a logic loop which checks every N seconds of game world time, which targets are within range of which weapons and all that. Obviously this gets quite intensive, due to the nasty tendency the earth has to be round-but-not-exactly-round-so-all-formulas-are-super-complex. So we have to balance it between being totally inept at shooting and requiring super gaming rigs to even play the game. We'll keep tweaking and try to address this problem.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated!
Well, the reason is probably that we have a logic loop which checks every N seconds of game world time, which targets are within range of which weapons and all that. Obviously this gets quite intensive, due to the nasty tendency the earth has to be round-but-not-exactly-round-so-all-formulas-are-super-complex. So we have to balance it between being totally inept at shooting and requiring super gaming rigs to even play the game. We'll keep tweaking and try to address this problem.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated!
Do we really need to bother with the not-perfectly-round stuff for calculations? Unless we had the whole globe in the game, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference right?
I just want phalanx to engage incoming missiles regardless if it has anything else flying at it already.
I think thats the only way to make the GPS coordinates actually work. Remember that every unit at game start have GPS coordinates you can edit in a file.
Thats quite genius because you can actually use Google Maps to find the exact coordinates when you want to place your units.
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The logic uses approximate calculations when it can, but those are not only wrong, they are systematically wrong. For example, they may have a 10% tendency towards the east in the region 90% of the game plays out. So, they cannot be used for calculations requiring any precision which, alas, is just about everything.