Shattered Retreat

[Blinckx]

I like Conclave DLC, i really do, i love the council idea, the new law system and everything else but shattered retreat is just stupid.
Not only the battles last are too much longer now but, if you're facing multipe wars at the same time ( and no, you can't prevent 4 "host" declaring wars on you at the same time over and over ) uyou are forced to chase the army here and there over the map.
Also. and this is probably the most crazy thing, the reinforcement.
Right now the casualties after the battle are small ( like, a clash of 4k men with other 4k just will reduce the looser force for 500/1000 men, nothing more ) but also for a strange reason they get those men back in not time and IN MY OWN TERRITORY.
Seriously ? Your army is flee on my land and they are able to get their men back ? How ? they kidnaps peasants ?

Right now i just lost 2 wars because of this mechanic.
There are 2 armies of 5000 men, one in the north, one in the south one in the middle. I've 7000 so i can't split my army but i have no issue to fight them one by one. But here it is what happen. I go in the north to fight the first army, i win and they run. In the mean time, the other armies siege a castle. So i have to move back in the south, i win, but now i have to retake my castle back

And guess what ? The army from the north is coming back with almost the same number of men and they start with another siege. So i go up again and the army in the south come back
Then i go down and up and down and..this is crazy. I lost 2 wars just because they flee away, ( also the score i get for winning a battle is really minimal..)

Please fix this thing, absolutely make no sense at all, it's not even fun and don't add difficult to the game, it's is totally broken

Ps : sorry for my english

 

[Chunakun]

Because of Conclave I learned how to mod. I modded out shattered retreat. You could decide to mod it out, change it to your preferences or just wait for paradox to remove it (which will never happen).

 

[Blinckx]

Because of Conclave I learned how to mod. I modded out shattered retreat. You could decide to mod it out, change it to your preferences or just wait for paradox to remove it (which will never happen).

Yeah but i would avoid the mod

 

[Kyle Lionheart]

Here's an idea....focus on one army at a time, if that is what it takes to win the war.

Hit the first army. Once they retreat, pursue them. Ignore the second army...are they sieging land? Good, that'll keep them busy for a while. Eventually the first army stops retreating, and they shouldn't go so ridiculously far away anymore since 2.5.2, so be right behind them and hit them again.
Keep doing this and the warscore will add up faster and faster(you'll be killing proportionally bigger fractions of their army each time), so you eventually win.

Then turn around and deal with the second army. You have a lot more leeway now, you can even let them run and siege back anything they might have captured in the meanwhile.


Of course there's risks with this approach. It's heavy on attrition for your army. More enemies might rise up. The second army can do serious damage while left unchecked.
But that comes with the territory when you are fighting a two-front war without overwhelming force. It's the way it should be. There's a reason strategists dread that in the real world...

 

[Shebaloso]

I like Conclave DLC, i really do, i love the council idea, the new law system and everything else but shattered retreat is just stupid.
Not only the battles last are too much longer now but, if you're facing multipe wars at the same time ( and no, you can't prevent 4 "host" declaring wars on you at the same time over and over ) uyou are forced to chase the army here and there over the map.
Also. and this is probably the most crazy thing, the reinforcement.
Right now the casualties after the battle are small ( like, a clash of 4k men with other 4k just will reduce the looser force for 500/1000 men, nothing more ) but also for a strange reason they get those men back in not time and IN MY OWN TERRITORY.
Seriously ? Your army is flee on my land and they are able to get their men back ? How ? they kidnaps peasants ?

Right now i just lost 2 wars because of this mechanic.
There are 2 armies of 5000 men, one in the north, one in the south one in the middle. I've 7000 so i can't split my army but i have no issue to fight them one by one. But here it is what happen. I go in the north to fight the first army, i win and they run. In the mean time, the other armies siege a castle. So i have to move back in the south, i win, but now i have to retake my castle back

And guess what ? The army from the north is coming back with almost the same number of men and they start with another siege. So i go up again and the army in the south come back
Then i go down and up and down and..this is crazy. I lost 2 wars just because they flee away, ( also the score i get for winning a battle is really minimal..)

Please fix this thing, absolutely make no sense at all, it's not even fun and don't add difficult to the game, it's is totally broken

Ps : sorry for my english

Landed character's armies CERTAINLY do not reinforce while on hostile territory, on the contrary; they suffer a crippling 5-15% atrition while retreating through hostile holdings not considering the weather. Hosts and adventurers are another story, but the patch solved the problem. Two battles are now generally enough to win the war, so pursue them after the first victory, do not win a battle and promptly turn to your other enemy. Win a battle, give pursue, finish one host. Turn on the other and repeat.

Now, to be fair, the old system certainly wasn't harder. When a single battle decides the fate of a war between the byzantines and the abbasids, something is very wrong, specially when you can predict very accurately its outcome. Shattered retreat is not realistic, yes, but i think i'm actually having more fun with it, now that the patch solved some of the issues. Not to say that there is no more room for improvement, though.

 

[Blinckx]

Hosts and adventurers are another story, but the patch solved the problem. Two battles are now generally enough to win the war

Well in my game those two Hosts army were reinforcing in my own territory without problem and the war score for each won battle is truly too low

Shattered retreat is not realistic, yes, but i think i'm actually having more fun with it, now that the patch solved some of the issues. Not to say that there is no more room for improvement, though.

Yeah i hope for an improvement because this is silly to me

Eventually the first army stops retreating, and they shouldn't go so ridiculously far away anymore since 2.5.2, so be right behind them and hit them again.

I don't know, they move damn way too fast ( which is also stupid ) Maybe there is something wrong in my patch...

Keep doing this and the warscore will add up faster and faster(you'll be killing proportionally bigger fractions of their army each time), so you eventually win.

As said, not sure why but the warscore just add a very minimal number, no more than 5 or 6 %

 

[Shebaloso]

Well in my game those two Hosts army were reinforcing in my own territory without problem and the war score for each won battle is truly too low


Yeah i hope for an improvement because this is silly to me


I don't know, they move damn way too fast ( which is also stupid ) Maybe there is something wrong in my patch...


As said, not sure why but the warscore just add a very minimal number, no more than 5 or 6 %

You misunderstood me. Landed characters' armies DO NOT reinforce while inside your territory. Hosts and adventurers DO reinforce while inside your territory. THat's why you should deal with them swiftly and individually.

About the warscore, a large battle won against an adventurer generally doesn't give me less than 50% warscore. If you are getting just 5-6%, something is wrong.

 

[Blinckx]

Hosts and adventurers DO reinforce while inside your territory.

Ok yeah i understand now but still i find it silly. A group or pagans running away on my lands and also they are able to get men from nowhere ? There's no logic in that

About the warscore, a large battle won against an adventurer generally doesn't give me less than 50% warscore. If you are getting just 5-6%, something is wrong

Don't know what to say. Maybe, since i' using the beta patch there's something worng ? I'll try to switch on live version this evening

 

[Kyle Lionheart]

I don't know, they move damn way too fast ( which is also stupid ) Maybe there is something wrong in my patch...
As said, not sure why but the warscore just add a very minimal number, no more than 5 or 6 %

They do have a movement bonus when retreating, but it shouldn't prevent you from eventually catching up with them. It might even be a good thing, if it allows them to recover morale a bit, so they don't retreat right away.

As for the warscore, I believe it mostly depends on the losses they take relative to their total army size. In case of adventurers/rebels, it should really be higher than that. I usually get between 20% and 60% from a single battle against hosts.
It could be that you do a lot of morale damage and have poor pursuers, so they retreat too fast and don't take many losses. Do you use +morale offence commanders? Do you lack in cavalry/light infantry?

It is fairly silly that hosts reinforce so fast in enemy land, this I agree with...but that's why it's so important to keep killing them before they get the chance.

 

[szmik]

You misunderstood me. Landed characters' armies DO NOT reinforce while inside your territory.

Retinues and mercs do.

 

[Blinckx]

In case of adventurers/rebels, it should really be higher than that. I usually get between 20% and 60% from a single battle against hosts

Rebels are a joke, one win battle -> 100% warscore
Hosts and adventurer -> 5% or 6% warscore

Maybe i'll post some screenshot later on