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jwalche

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HF really asks me think out of the box. There are so many duchies now, mindlessly repeating holy wars don't get me anywhere. And I am learning and finding new tips!

1. Prewar raiding and murdering.

Playing as Sigurdr Ring, taking Saxony early on with Pagan Subjugation CB became much harder than before. It can easily bring 9k stack. I guess I could take my time to become stronger - build up prestige buildings, take neighboring states with King of.. CB or Force Vassalization CB, etc, etc. Wait! I can't use King of.. Subjugation CB because than I can't use once in a lifespan Pagan Subjugation CB on Saxony. Maybe that was the intention of making Saxony stronger...

But I found an alternative and reliable (meaning I can use it on Ironman) strategy;

1. Choose Seduction Focus, invite high intrigue girls, and start seduction. After seducing each girl, send her as a wife or concubine of any adult male in the capital.
2. Send raiders to Saxony capital. It doesn't matter if I can't get any raiding gold. The focus is making it locally hostile, beat it's defenders, and capturing the king or his adult heir either through sacking the holding or battles.
3. Start war if a. King of Saxony is in my prison. or b. His heir is in my prison and I am a master seducer.

That's it, start war with Saxony, choose King of Sweden Ambition. Declare war with everyone in de jure Sweden. End Saxony war immediately since the king is in my prison. And finish the rest.

2. Seduction + Cosmopolitan + Equality = Murder any foreign ruler at will

In the above tip, I didn't explain how capturing the heir would be an instant win. It isn't, but close. I had already filled the enemy's capital county with girls. Some are my lovers, but the rest are just regular girls. It doesn't matter to a master seducer. Even with very low personal Intrigue, murdering a foreign king is pretty easy once you have enough women in his court.

Now the problem is, most of major enemies are of different religion group, and you can't send women there. And average enemy court has only a few of them. BUT, now with Cosmopolitan nature, you can send your pagan courtiers to the enemy court as a wife of a man there, usually a courtier. Unfortunately, that's still not enough when there are only a few courtiers and they can't take concubines. That's why I also need Equality doctrine. I can maternally marry my male courtier to the enemy court, often to a female ruler. And for each pagan husband in the enemy court, I can send three high intrigue concubines.

3. Take West/Middle Francia with the last Merovingian guy in Eu.

After HF, Francia has so many counties that it's impractical to take it with a series holy wars. Fortunately, I don't need to. There is the last decedent of Merovingian dynasty in Eu as a monk courtier. As a pagan petty king, I could send gift and make him a guardian of my children (I had to send gift to his count too so I could do this), and buy a favor with 400 ducats, force invite him, grant him a temple to remove monk trait.

I also have heirs of West/Middle Francia in my prison that I captured with rading, and working on sending girls to his court. Soon I will have rulers of West and Middle Francia in my prison and press Merovingian claim, and will get Francia instantly.

4. Raid on enemy capital or king/duchy level vassal capitals, even if they are not your border.

The real benefit of raiding is capturing enemy children and sacking holdings. The raiding gold is small and insignificant. Children of enemy dukes and kings are ransomed for much better gold, or better yet, can net you a kingdom without a fight through inviting claimants and murders.

If you can raid, you can raid inland not bordering counties just as well. You just loose daily raiding loot. But as I said, it's really insignificant. It is far better to raid a duchy capital with multiple children of the duke, even if it is not adjacent to your realm or coastal.

5. With Equality, you can land female claimants and press their claims instead of waiting for them to give birth to a your male dynast. I mean, who has time for that? And you can use old females too. It is generally easier to get female claimants of large kingdoms for obvious reasons. - Easier to invite, easier to capture from raiding, easier to make them your courtiers (by making them concubines)

That's it. As I had posted before, Cosmopolitan and Equality are two game-breaking strong tools, and Seducer is the most powerful trait of all, that the game is still not fully prepared to face what players can do with them.
 
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CoSMoS

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Nice tips! Just one short comment: there is no need at all to declare war on everyone else in Sweden when you plan on taking the Kingdom of Saxony, just the two southern duchies - all the OPMs will vassalize to you freely once you are a king.
 

josefrees

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One thing I’ve been thinking about equality...is it the same thing as full status of women coupled with absolute cognatic? Just wondering because if so it is just a kind of convenience choice, no?
 

makaramus

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if you ask me raiding is better than conquering
by raiding you make so much money you simply build more than you conquer

I mean I feel good about making scandinavia a heaven without declaring a single war
*screams of burning children and men and woman being sold as slaves on back ground*
I SAID I FEEL GOOD FOR SCANDINAVIA! thats all...
 

jwalche

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Nice tips! Just one short comment: there is no need at all to declare war on everyone else in Sweden when you plan on taking the Kingdom of Saxony, just the two southern duchies - all the OPMs will vassalize to you freely once you are a king.
That's right!
I also want to add that I help what I can so Sjalland can subjugate or be subjugated by one of the duchies or Saxony, or else I don't have CB to absorb it.

Another thing with HF is that, I prefer to delay Pagan Reformation until I have absorbed enough Slavic counties on Scandinavia to form an Empire fast. Because there are more duchies, forming the empire with holy wars is much harder with Pagan defensive attrition.

The reason that I need an Empire is that, since holy wars are not as useful as before, I want to focus on collecting and pressing kingdom size claims. (easier now thanks to Cosmopolitan and Equality).

And just in case someone didn't know, the best claims to press are Kingdoms of West and Middle Francia held by the last Merovingian monk guy in Eu. Gifting both him and his liege count, followed by assigning him as guardian of my kids had allowed me to buy a favor from him for 400 ducats, and use it to invite him to my court. I can de-monk him by giving him a temple first.
 

SSA

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You really don't want cosmopolitan unless you're maybe Hellenistic or Zunist, you may get the "love game", but it's only worth it with a polygamy doctrine and not just concubines, which you can always abduct.
 

jwalche

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You really don't want cosmopolitan unless you're maybe Hellenistic or Zunist, you may get the "love game", but it's only worth it with a polygamy doctrine and not just concubines, which you can always abduct.
You can't easily abduct female rulers, and it is harder to send your raiders to some places especially in the beginning when you can benefit from the love game best, And why not both abduct and marry to increase getting good claimants? It's more powerful when combined with Seducer and Equality. A love game can net me a Kingdom claim.

1. Once gaining Master Seducer trait, invite the best talented or claim holding single women all over the world, by arraigning marriage between her and a Khaganate prince I invited for free. Then I can make her a council, land and press her claim (Equality), or marry her (It's very easy to murder any courtier when you have a dozen lovers in there)

2. I can also murder almost any foreign ruler, simply by placing more women in his court, through marriage and concubinage system. As a pagan, I don't need polygamy. I can first send a pagan man to a court to marry the duchess, and then send three concubines to him to help conspiring my plots.

3. Raiding ability of Pagan on any county, (you can still sack holdings and capture prisoners by raiding on not-bordered inland counties), with enhanced capture rate from Warrior's Lodge, can capture enemy kingdom's female and child heirs / claimants reliably.

1+2+3 = Gaining large claims and instant winnings when pressing the claims in the way the pre HF world has never seen!

4. If you have many sons and close male dynasts, which you should if you play seductive game, then you can keep marrying and betrothing your male dynasts to foreign female rulers and heirs, and soon see your dynasts ruling kingdoms and duchies all over the world. And you can easily help it with murders. Example, marry your son to a foreign duchess, send him three concubines. Murder existing heirs and the duchess (after first giving birth to your dynast heir).

5. While your dynasty is relatively small and you have married most of males away, you can use female dynasts for your vassals with Equality. Female vassals are much better for a master seducer male ruler. (Except for your own daughters, who would be hating you for legitimating too many bastards)

6. If it is not independent, different religion and culture should help it to rebel. Once it is independent, it is likely to accept vassalization request. Or, if you managed to put a dynast on throne of a Christian Kingdom or even and Empire, make him your heir (Elective), cause a rebellion, surrender and adjudicate your realm him to combine them. Don't forget to declare a few wars before the AI forms new defensive pacts, unless you already have ruler of your next claim war already in your dungeon. Cosmopolitan allows you much more opportunities for love games. Especially so if you are a pagan but helps Christians too.
 
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Woifee

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If you influence a character in the realm you are at war with or you are raiding you get an event where you can get some bonus prestige. Just chose that one where you like his troops and you get that sweet sweet prestige. And you get this event all the time.
 

SSA

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You can't easily abduct female rulers, and it is harder to send your raiders to some places especially in the beginning when you can benefit from the love game best, And why not both abduct and marry to increase getting good claimants? It's more powerful when combined with Seducer and Equality. A love game can net me a Kingdom claim.

1. Once gaining Master Seducer trait, invite the best talented or claim holding single women all over the world, by arraigning marriage between her and a Khaganate prince I invited for free. Then I can make her a council, land and press her claim (Equality), or marry her (It's very easy to murder any courtier when you have a dozen lovers in there)

2. I can also murder almost any foreign ruler, simply by placing more women in his court, through marriage and concubinage system. As a pagan, I don't need polygamy. I can first send a pagan man to a court to marry the duchess, and then send three concubines to him to help conspiring my plots.

3. Raiding ability of Pagan on any county, (you can still sack holdings and capture prisoners by raiding on not-bordered inland counties), with enhanced capture rate from Warrior's Lodge, can capture enemy kingdom's female and child heirs / claimants reliably.

1+2+3 = Gaining large claims and instant winnings when pressing the claims in the way the pre HF world has never seen!

4. If you have many sons and close male dynasts, which you should if you play seductive game, then you can keep marrying and betrothing your male dynasts to foreign female rulers and heirs, and soon see your dynasts ruling kingdoms and duchies all over the world. And you can easily help it with murders. Example, marry your son to a foreign duchess, send him three concubines. Murder existing heirs and the duchess (after first giving birth to your dynast heir).

5. While your dynasty is relatively small and you have married most of males away, you can use female dynasts for your vassals with Equality. Female vassals are much better for a master seducer male ruler. (Except for your own daughters, who would be hating you for legitimating too many bastards)

6. If it is not independent, different religion and culture should help it to rebel. Once it is independent, it is likely to accept vassalization request. Or, if you managed to put a dynast on throne of a Christian Kingdom or even and Empire, make him your heir (Elective), cause a rebellion, surrender and adjudicate your realm him to combine them. Don't forget to declare a few wars before the AI forms new defensive pacts, unless you already have ruler of your next claim war already in your dungeon. Cosmopolitan allows you much more opportunities for love games. Especially so if you are a pagan but helps Christians too.
If you are a pagan that can raid, there's no benefit to cosmopolitan or playing the love game. The reason Hellenistic and Zunist are better for the love game is because one Hellenistic can't get concubines, and Zunist can't generally raid provinces. It's nice that your character is falling in love, and making other characters fall in love with them, but people historically didn't marry for love, they married for power and alliances, so if you are some useless count in the middle of nowhere, and the girl you like is the princess of the French Empire, odds are you likely won't get her; (even if she did "love" you).

I once tried this myself, being a useless count trying to marry a princess, and even though the other character was my "lover", they still wouldn't consider a marriage.
 

jwalche

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If you are a pagan that can raid, there's no benefit to cosmopolitan or playing the love game. the girl you like is the princess of the French Empire, odds are you likely won't get her; (even if she did "love" you).... being a useless count trying to marry a princess,

Well, Cosmopolitan doesn't enable you to do what you couldn't do within your religious group. So you won't be able to do much as a count for high born girls, unless you use favor.

But, pagan world is very small in terms of people. It is much easier to find competent councilors and commanders among Christian female than Pagan males. Cosmopolitan lets me to collect all the good councilors and commanders early in the game, before I can access Chinese for its siege leaders. Those councilors and commanders being female has added benefit of them being fanatically royal to me, a master seducer.

When I reform religion, I am already a king and getting close to become an emperor. The marriage is not for me though. 1~2 decades after the game start, there are many claimant empire-princes eager to leave there court and I can invite them for free. I marry those princes with girls I want to invite to my court. It has nothing to do with love. I can raid and capture too. But why send my raiders if I can get her more easily? And if I fail to capture my target, I will have to come back in two years to try again.

Also, when I am a pagan emperor, those Christian duchess are eager to marry my sons and, with a few murders, have my grandson to inherit her titles. That can't be done with raiding and capturing. Even as a pagan, I still can't force an imprisoned female ruler to marry or become my concubine.

The princess of the French Empire will still have to be captured through raiding. But there are other opportunities. Child queen of West Francia is more likely to marry your Son, a prince of Empire of Scandinavia, and your grandson can become the next King. It's not like you will have shortage of sons if you play a seduce game. Later you can make him your heir with Elective Feudal system, and adjudicate your throne to him by causing a revolt (keep imprisoning your vassals until one revolt), and surrendering to their demand. You got a large Christian kingdom added to your realm without a war.
 
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