Shakarn line-up is now open for speculation!

Shakarn line-up is now open for speculation!

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DragonZee

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They're following the same unit research path as Dvar/Kir'ko: T2 Flier first, then three T3 units. So the dragon is more likely to be one of those T3s alongside the artillery and Tactician. Most summons are T2 or T1 anyway.
Guys, watch the stream. There is no speculation here, Firebrand is T3, you can clearly see him after Propagator in Shakarn military research tree...

They don't show the whole tree mind you but I think the full branch goes like this: Propagator > Firebrand > Refractor > Tactician > Sonokarn
 

Promethian

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They're following the same unit research path as Dvar/Kir'ko: T2 Flier first, then three T3 units. So the dragon is more likely to be one of those T3s alongside the artillery and Tactician. Most summons are T2 or T1 anyway.
Um what? You must have a mod that puts every factions tac op summoned tier 3 on a tech because in the base game you can only research two tier 3 units. The Valkyrie, Sentinel, Burrower, Assembly squid thing (forgot its name off hand) and so on are not available to built after a tech. They are only summoned by a tac op. It looks like the firebrand is getting this treatment.
 

FerrokenFibrous

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Um what? You must have a mod that puts every factions tac op summoned tier 3 on a tech because in the base game you can only research two tier 3 units. The Valkyrie, Sentinel, Burrower, Assembly squid thing (forgot its name off hand) and so on are not available to built after a tech. They are only summoned by a tac op. It looks like the firebrand is getting this treatment.
Nah, Dvar and Kir'ko both have three T3 units each: Baron, Excavator, and Rocket Artillery for Dvar. Barrager, Ravenous, and Tormented for Kir'ko. So Firebrand, Tactician and Refractor are going to get the same treatment as the Dvar and Kir'ko T3s.

Valkyrie, Sentinel, Abyssian, Sapper and Excavator are all T2 units.
 

Promethian

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Nah, Dvar and Kir'ko both have three T3 units each: Baron, Excavator, and Rocket Artillery for Dvar. Barrager, Ravenous, and Tormented for Kir'ko. So Firebrand, Tactician and Refractor are going to get the same treatment as the Dvar and Kir'ko T3s.

Valkyrie, Sentinel, Abyssian, Sapper and Excavator are all T2 units.
Huh. Those are the two races that I play the least and they are the two that vary from the pattern I thought I saw. Vanguard only has Laser Tank and Walker for tier 3. Syndicate: Wraith and Dom. Assembly: Disassembler and Wrecker. Amazon: Bombardon and TRex. So yep, Firebrand is their 3rd tier 3. And now I am upset that the races I play the most don't have a 3rd tier 3.
 

DragonZee

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Hmm, now that I think about Firebrand might not be a T3 but T2, but I really doubt it. We do know it's the next research after Propagator. The unit just feels too big for T2 when we have things like Deadeye as T2 :)
 

FerrokenFibrous

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Hmm, now that I think about Firebrand might not be a T3 but T2, but I really doubt it. We do know it's the next research after Propagator. The unit just feels too big for T2 when we have things like Deadeye as T2 :)
If they follow the same research line as Kir'ko and Dvar, then the Firebrand will definitely be a T3.

Edit: The concept art in the dev diary says the Firebrand is T3, and I doubt they're gonna stray from that decision, so it is extremely likely to be a T3 in the final release of the DLC.
 
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DragonZee

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Wasn't it the stack representer on the settlement on the stream? I'm pretty sure its t3
Hmm, I didn't catch that, but don't want to browse through the entire stream to find it...

No biggie, will just have to wait for more info from Triumph guys, a simple screen of Firebrand details would be enough :D
 

MrFedia3000

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Infiltrator also doesn't have healing abilities and you can't rely on them while clearing map.
But they do have healing abilities if they transform into a healer unit who you're going to run into when clearing the map. Don't forget that infiltrators have an ability to holoshift into their last holoshift. The devs in their stream mentioned this strategy - holoshift into a biomancer and keep that infiltrator as a biomancer for future battles.

I can imagine it being hard to find a holoshift target for new infiltrators that you produced in the late game but you already cleared the map at this point and you must have better units to produce than infiltrators. For the beggining of the game infiltrators should work fine as healers.
 

FerrokenFibrous

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But they do have healing abilities if they transform into a healer unit who you're going to run into when clearing the map. Don't forget that infiltrators have an ability to holoshift into their last holoshift. The devs in their stream mentioned this strategy - holoshift into a biomancer and keep that infiltrator as a biomancer for future battles.

I can imagine it being hard to find a holoshift target for new infiltrators that you produced in the late game but you already cleared the map at this point and you must have better units to produce than infiltrators. For the beggining of the game infiltrators should work fine as healers.
Mr Dias' concern appears to be more focused on how they would heal post-combat and/or on the strategic map.
 

Mr_Dias

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Exactly. There is no Biological Recovery heal on strategic map via T1 supports. Amazons have Biomancers, Dvar have Foreman, Vanguard PUG, Kir'ko Transcendent, Syndicate their priests. Assembly need to research their support, but they have innate on-strike healing on their troops and, what is more important, heal after battle. It is VERY likely you won't meet stacks with healers for your first several battles when clearing initial map objectives as Shakarn. Therefore you'll inevitably get into a situation where you just need to retreat to towns just to get heals.

Not that it's bad or something, I was just mentioning that it will be kinda new experience - to actually have to retreat to towns for heals.
 

Promethian

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Exactly. There is no Biological Recovery heal on strategic map via T1 supports. Amazons have Biomancers, Dvar have Foreman, Vanguard PUG, Kir'ko Transcendent, Syndicate their priests. Assembly need to research their support, but they have innate on-strike healing on their troops and, what is more important, heal after battle. It is VERY likely you won't meet stacks with healers for your first several battles when clearing initial map objectives as Shakarn. Therefore you'll inevitably get into a situation where you just need to retreat to towns just to get heals.

Not that it's bad or something, I was just mentioning that it will be kinda new experience - to actually have to retreat to towns for heals.
Um what? Retreat to towns to heal? I guess its faster in your territory but I never confirmed. There is automatic map recovery, maybe the last time you checked such a thing your units were in a sector with a hazard? Many of the hazards block the per turn recovery.
 

FerrokenFibrous

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Um what? Retreat to towns to heal? I guess its faster in your territory but I never confirmed. There is automatic map recovery, maybe the last time you checked such a thing your units were in a sector with a hazard? Many of the hazards block the per turn recovery.
Yes, it is, indeed, faster in your territory.
 

DragonZee

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They need to have some weaknesses to counterbalance their obvious strenghts. Lower resistance is one of them.
 

FerrokenFibrous

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The devs made a newer stream and confirmed that the Infiltrator does not inherit mods from the units it copies. Understandable, though it would seem like its effectiveness in the late game will taper hard due to this.

Also, turns out I was wrong about the Shakarn not having any ships. The concept art ship did, in fact, make it into the game.
 

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FerrokenFibrous

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That's super lame.
Yeah, hence why I feel like they'd be significantly less useful in the long run. Like granted, it's still worth copying a Biomancer or some other high value support unit in the late game, but not much else.

Also, watching the stream some more, the Tactician's sleeper agent ability starts on a 3 turn cooldown, which honestly feels like a bit much to me. I guess their reasoning is because of the ability's absurd range and the fact that it's a summon that gets carried over to the strategic map (the Sleeper Agent can equip mods and some screenshots show it roaming the world map instead of just guarding sites).

Heroes can also unlock a skill that grants them an ability to summon a Sleeper Agent on an adjacent tile, but their version disappears after the battle.
 

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DragonZee

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That's super lame.
Yep, a unit which strenght and longevity is based on copying other units will loose it's effectivness this way. But I remember them mentioning you can unlock more options down the road so maybe this will compensate?
 

FerrokenFibrous

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Yep, a unit which strenght and longevity is based on copying other units will loose it's effectivness this way. But I remember them mentioning you can unlock more options down the road so maybe this will compensate?
They said there's an upgrade (idk how that works, maybe a research that automatically grants it to all of them?) that will let them copy mechanical units. There might also be a later upgrade that lets them copy T3 units but I'm not completely sure. Even still, there aren't a lotta good options for them to copy in the late game, even if they could be upgraded to copy mechanical and T3 units.

Unmodded T3s are unmitigated trash against modded units of any tier (and by the time most players get T3 units, chances are, the majority of everyone's non-militia units have at least one mod), and the only lower tier mechanical options I can see being worthwhile without mods are the PUG, Autonom 343 Guilty Spark (if you're running heavy on the Recon/Propagator/Refractor stacks), and the Synthesis Network Link, and the last one is only useful if you are also playing Synthesis and thus can integrate your units, in which case, just build your own Network Links.
 

Zenicetus

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Does the Infiltrator keep its own original mods when copying another unit? That might offer some interesting synergies, and wouldn't leave it as a "naked" and weak unit copy in the late game.