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Eros Rend

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I was wondering what people's opinions on Celestian Shakarn are? I was originally using Voidtech with them, but I found some of the mods redundant. I was thinking about trying Celestian, because it is one of my favorite secret techs and it works with almost every race. I haven't seen much info about this build online, I wonder if it just isn't that good of a combo, or that it is just self-explanatory (healing for troops)? Thank you in advance for your advice.
 

Ethorin

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More healing and stagger res with an additional damage channel while the Shakarn are normally the most limited in variety of channels around. It's fine. I think Shakarn Lightbringers also had an interesting dash and I know Shakarn have some REALLY neat defensive mods for short range units.

Yup, Shakarn Lightbringers apply Disorientated on dash targets.

EDIT: I will say though, my favorite part of Shakarn Voidtech is how neatly Abduct and Evacuate fit into what the Shakarn already enjoy doing.
 
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Kennysded

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Jun 4, 2020
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Giving them an early boost to influence gain (karmic amplification) is nice. They easily surpassed kirko and syndicate on influence gain by picking an npc faction to fight early on, if you have the armies for it, and even more once they get the spy tech one.

Adding stagger resistance is always good. They lack heals for awhile, so having an extra unit / mod that can do that is also useful.

And since their influence gain is so high, it's easier to get ascendant teachers to give your units resurgence and not need to waste a mod slot on the one that gives resurgence but causes insanity.
 

mbuh

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Sep 6, 2020
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I plays either shakarn or amazon, from my experience, anything dealing with psionic or biological is worse for shakarn than anything that boost mechanical

Shakarn is in my opinion the weirdest race, by weird i mean they don't need secret tech at all, they have so many things in their race that are very great

Their only weakness i think is they are one of the weakest race if not the weakest in early game, but one of the strongest if not the strongest at late game currently. This is mainly due to the lack of sustains (heals, dispels, etc) for their armies, other than epimorphic regen, and propagator heal

The regen, can't be considered healing because it's just a form of damage mitigation with a fixed amount of 6, not a form of sustain. Heal from propagator is not bad, but too lacking for the shakarn early combats. Being celestian mean early access to sustain, this is the most noticeable benefit of being shakarn celestian.

Without reliable sustain, the shakarn early game is about long range engagement, and copying healers from other race or independent guards through their infiltrator.

At late game though, celestian don't bring much benefit to shakarn other than star guide's accuracy buff, ascended teacher is a bit redundant, because shakarn tier 4 (the sonokarn) is significantly better, and fit more to their racial play style, that is extreme long range engagement

Perhaps other noteworhty mention is their mid game, a unit called firebrand that is quite lacking as a tier 3 elite unit can be useful with celestian, because of healing, damage reflect, and probably also synergize well with celestian pacifism ability mod, the bad news is it can't be combined with the teleport (so no teleport then pacify). However, they are also around the same tech tier in the tech tree with the holorealilty mantle which is better than those two

Other benefit is if you love NPC units, the shakarn has the doctrine that can be combined with the celestian version

I guess celestian offer to little benefit from my experience for the shakarn
 

Draxynnic

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I'm not sure that self-sufficiency makes the Shakarn 'weird'. All the races are intended to still be viable if you ignore the secret tech pretty much entirely - the secret tech just offers more tools at your disposal (and a doomsday weapon).

That said, some secret techs rely more on being able to synergise with the race (if you don't just go all out with the secret tech and ignore the race lineup) than others. Shakarn Voidtech, for instance, works well with Dimensional Instability because a lot of their units do at least some kinetic damage, while Syndicate doesn't work very well because Syndicate units generally don't have access to kinetic damage. Celestian, on the other hand, works reasonably well layered onto pretty much anything. It won't offer awesome synergies, but it can certainly at least cover for some of your weaknesses, and Stagger Resistance is usually good to have.

Worth a try, but on the other hand, it's probably not going to be a combination that'll ever be a subject of a "perfectly balanced as all things should be" video.

If you're looking for a change while still playing Shakarn, Promethean might also be worth looking into, particularly given the early mod that provides healing and status effect removal both as a means of sustain and to mitigate Xeno Debilitation.
 

mbuh

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Sep 6, 2020
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By weird, i don't mean it in a bad way, it's just, shakarn like you said, shakarn is more self sufficient than other races, at least for me currently. I find it weird because it can just completely ignore the secret tech line and still do wonder. Before anyone get the wrong impression, i never said that shakarn is overpowered, personally i think it's a balanced race, at least at current version

Yes the celestian is one of the neutral secret tech, by neutral i mean it can always offer at least decent things to any race, because the tech is more of supporters than the one occupying the spotlight. Other neutral tech i think is voidtech. Some tech is totally the opposite though, like promethean and xenoplague, who can ignore the whole racial things and still do great in the end. Some tech is quite clingy (psynumbra for example)

My favorite secret tech for shakarn is also promethean. I think that has the better or one of the best synergy with shakarn
 

Kennysded

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Jun 4, 2020
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Quick reply while I'm on break.

In terms of synergy, sure, celestial sucks for shakarn, in combat. But it's incredible for other things - earlier heals, defensive ops, countering psynumbra, and (most importantly to me) working with npc factions. That's where the synergy shines. If you can find two factions early on and war with one, you'll get resources and influence like crazy. Just gotta focus ops and spamming t1 units. Run intimidation, emissary, karmic amp, and/ or negotiator as quickly as possible, let the enemy npc spawn units near you, and reap the resource gains. Plus, if it's close by take a t5 sector early in the game for a drastic boost - just leave the faction with a spawn point.

By mid game, you should be reaping tons from the war and should have the infiltration doctrine for even more influence.

But I really like using npc units so I can spam them while upgrading my colony and stuff.

Winning is okay, I just set goals for myself to have fun - like getting two or three top tier npc units in a stack for weird combos.