Shadow Realm Community Expansion - Development

[HousePet]

If we did want to give the Brain a Bolts ability, we could go with Arcane Bolts (the Fire / Spirit one).
That would give them a different damage channel, which would help them feel a bit less one dimensional. (With regard to all the units doing phys/blight/spirit.)

 

[Draxynnic]

If we did want to give the Brain a Bolts ability, we could go with Arcane Bolts (the Fire / Spirit one).
That would give them a different damage channel, which would help them feel a bit less one dimensional. (With regard to all the units doing phys/blight/spirit.)

I don't think that "one-dimensionality" is really an issue. Most races in AoW3 only had access to one non-physical channel, with some having two and the Orcs having three (but only in a triple-channel attack from their support). Having a group of creatures stick to a relatively limited range of channels adds theme and gives them an organic weakness - you can prepare to fight them by choosing units that are resistant to that channel or channels.

I think the Brain using Toxic Bolts would be fine - in fact, I'd consider it a nice touch that some psychically inert units like machines would be completely immune.

 

[HousePet]

Yeah, but this isn't a playable race. Most of the dwelling races are slightly more varied.

 

[Refineus]

The mechanic to "inflict Haywire" might make less sense with Toxic Bolts against Machines. However, if Brain should have more fire/spirit oriented attacks as "arcane" which is "Magic bolts" I presume it should have a fire-based option ability rather than blight.

I can find a solution for an Inflict Despair/Haywire/Rallying Cry" combo.

As it is now from a current update on steam released recently. (I had not added a ranged option to the Brain)

"Brain Overcharge" and "Inflict Haywire" as a side

Renamed "Impale" to "Inject"

"Athletics" and "Forest Concealment"

The Bloat. "Tier 1" slightly reduced in strength.

The Lord

Added as a start, "Fear Strike" and "Inflict Shadow Sickness"

Then on another topic.

The Elder Beetle was designed as the earth element on the Wizard Tower instead of Cockatrice and those Giant Monkeys that did not turn out as I wanted, so the Kharagh was also dropped.


Elder Beetle still inherits the "Cockatrice" stats and abilities. The Cockatrice was not my cup of cake as I remember. The flavour text is from a "Normal Goblin Beetle". So it may need a little revise on the abilities.

I will mostly return to the modding scene in January from a vacation cheers

 

[Draxynnic]

Yeah, but this isn't a playable race. Most of the dwelling races are slightly more varied.

Not really. Similar to my observation regarding orcs, dwellings having more than two non-physical channels only comes up in cases of having a triple-channel ranged attack (Rime Fire, Fairy Fire) or dragons because they have three types of dragon with different elemental affinities in the one dwelling. Giants, Naga, and Merfolk each only had two non-physical channels each, and naga only get shock if a Matriarch reaches elite rank.

If you go back to Shadow Magic, Shadow Demons had poison (interpreted as Blight), magic (interpreted here as Spirit, since interpreting it as Shock would be inappropriate when Shadow Demon vulnerability to electricity was a plot point) and Death (generally interpreted as Spirit, Blight, Cold or a combination therof). There's nothing in there to suggest that Shadow Demon units would have fire, and in fact, their association with darkness and shadow would actually seem to make something illuminating like fire seem out of place. One might be able to justify cold, but for something like the Brain I think it's better to keep to more of a psychic attack without temperature elements at all, and in general I don't think triple-channel attacks should be thrown in helter-skelter.

Mystics have fire+spirit because they're basically a combination of the old Mystic and Fire Cat into a single unit (along with the Hunter).

Either way, the overwhelming majority of races and dwellings stick to two or less nonphysical channels. The exceptions occur when you have a creature type which has multiple different types associated with different elements (dragons, a situation that does not apply with Shadow Demons) or when there's a triple-channel ranged attack involved. So there's no problem of "one-dimensionality" with the Shadow Demons.

 

[Rodmar18]

About descriptions I saw in the file:

Inject
"Machines and Shadow demons can't bleed"
Shall we add that Elementals and Undead are also immune to bleeding?

Brain Overcharge
Is there a status associated to it, like e.g. Overcharged Brain?
(then a description for this status)
Is target unit allied only?
Is the damage bonus melee only?

Elder Protection
Condition is target not already linked.
Or is it like vanilla Absorb Pain: both should not be already linked?

 

[Refineus]

Inject
"Machines and Shadow demons can't bleed"
Shall we add that Elementals and Undead are also immune to bleeding?

The icon is the 4th from left

The text:
"Inject does extra {BlightDamage} against units. Armored, Machine and Reinforced are immune to this effect."

It's like a poisonous scratch ability that injects an "extra damage" but not specifically saying the target is bleeding. It works like a "Polearm" ability that does extra blight damage to unarmoured targets.

Brain Overcharge
Is there a status associated to it, like e.g. Overcharged Brain?
(then a description for this status)
Is target unit allied only?
Is the damage bonus melee only?

The icon is the 5th from left

I don't think I wrote a unit panel property for the receiving target.

The text:
"Infuse the mind of a target unit with abnormal overload, causing it to move faster and gain more strength. Target unit deals {ExtraDamage} and its movement radius is increased by {MoveProcent} until end of combat.[br/][br/]Additionally, it will cause the unit under the effect to be damaged each {Turn} for {BleedDamage} and {PoisonDamage}. Shadow Demons and Undead are immune to all the negative effects. Elemental, Incorporeal, and Machine are not affected."

Positive effects: All units except units that cannot be targeted like "Elemental, Incorporeal and Machine.

{ExtraDamage} = 3 [physic/]

{MoveProcent} = 8 [moveWalk/]

Negative: All units except non-valid for the ability. Undead and Shadow Demons don't have these two bleed effects.

{Turn} = [turn/]

{BleedDamage} = 4 [physic/]

{PoisonDamage} = 4 [blight/]

Elder Protection
Condition is target not already linked.
Or is it like vanilla Absorb Pain: both should not be already linked?

I created a new ability and targeter and linked the same effects except for the third effect that only made it available to Frostlings.

It's essentially the Pledge Protection from Frostling Royal Guard minus the "Frostling only targeter."

The text:
"This unit gains {pledgeofprotectionBonus} and links itself to target friendly unit that is not already linked. Any damage dealt to the linked unit is reduced by {absorbPainDamageReduction} and dealt to this unit instead. This effect lasts until the end of combat."

{absorbPainDamageReduction} = 35%
{pledgeofprotectionBonus} = +2 [def+/]

 

[Rodmar18]

Thank you for the clarification; it helps translating with the same phrasing as vanilla abilities.

I don't think I wrote a unit panel property for the receiving target.

The text:
"Infuse the mind of a target unit with abnormal overload, causing it to move faster and gain more strength. Target unit deals {ExtraDamage} and its movement radius is increased by {MoveProcent} until end of combat.[br/][br/]Additionally, it will cause the unit under the effect to be damaged each {Turn} for {BleedDamage} and {PoisonDamage}. Shadow Demons and Undead are immune to all the negative effects. Elemental, Incorporeal, and Machine are not affected."

So, will there be a unit panel property for the receiving target with same text as the ability, or a dedicated text, or no unit panel property for the receiving target?

{ExtraDamage} = 3 [physic/]

Is it a melee-only bonus or an all-attacks bonus?

What is the purpose of negative effects that don't affect Shadow Demons? Is it because demonic armies can have allies? Or because of a mind control ability that can add allies?

It's essentially the Pledge Protection from Frostling Royal Guard minus the "Frostling only targeter."

The text:
"This unit gains {pledgeofprotectionBonus} and links itself to target friendly unit that is not already linked."

Yes, but this vanilla text is unclear (I will report it soon for an eventual PBEM update): a unit can't link itself to another unit if the former is already protected by Absorb Pain/Pledge of Protection, even if the later is not already linked. I guess that it's the same with this derived ability.
Suggested text: "to target friendly unit, if none of them are already linked."
I think I found other phrasings such as "the effect is not cumulative"or "units with Absorb Pain can't be linked", but they aren't clear either.


Out of topic: do you plan on including Shadow Stalkers in defenders rosters for the Shadow Realm, or even as allies to Shadow Demons? I mean, don't they come from the same plane as the demons?

 

[Draxynnic]

Out of topic: do you plan on including Shadow Stalkers in defenders rosters for the Shadow Realm, or even as allies to Shadow Demons? I mean, don't they come from the same plane as the demons?

Not necessarily. Shadow Stalkers are essentially a non-race-specific application of the process that caused some Dark Elves to turn into Shadows, Shades, and possibly Incarnates in earlier AoWs, and while this is indicated to happen through some form of shadow essence corruption, it doesn't seem to require that Athla be accessible to the Shadow World. It's possible that Spirits were the result of the same process happening to a Shadow Demon instead of a Dark Elf, but they could also be unrelated.

It's worth noting that the Shadow World wasn't always so, well, shadowy, so being touched by shadow corruption isn't an inherent property of the plane itself, while there have been places on Athla that seemed to be touched with that corruption even before Shadow Magic. That said, the fact that it's not an inherent property of the plane, but instead happened after the Shadow Demons seized control, suggests that the Shadow Demons are able to bring that corruption themselves.

So it would probably make sense to have a few floating around, possibly even as a substitute for the old Spirit unit, but from a lore perspective, creation of Shadow Stalkers can occur without any link to Shadow Demons or the Shadow World.

 

[Rodmar18]

I understand.
It's just that I thought that Shadow Realm was more like an inter-plane medium inherently populated by horrid denizens, like solidified void/ether, permeating in places, and connecting to all the worlds or planes of existence created by the gods.

But it could be just like the Realm of Faeries in Terran myths, a twin dimension that could be corrupted or invaded from an external source, and became a spoiled no "man's" land. I didn't play Shadow Magic, by the way.

 

[Draxynnic]

It's more like the latter - it's mentioned in the Shadow Magic fluff that the Shadow Realm used to be a realm of light when it was the home of the Syrons before the Shadow Demons invaded and took over. So its nature seems to be at least somewhat mutable, consciously or unconsciously, by its inhabitants. Mind you, whether what the Shadow Demons did to it is reversible is another question, and the AoW3 lore implies that the Archons and Syrons didn't succeed in wresting back control of the region of the Shadow World close to Athla.

The impression I get is that it is essentially the ethereal or astral plane that links worlds together, but that its nature varies depending on who's in charge. If a particular region is primarily dominated by the forces of good, that's reflected in its appearance and properties, and vice versa. Events in AoW1 suggest that during that period, the way was still open for races like the Archons and Elves to leave and enter Athla freely, suggesting that at the time the local region was under 'good' control, but that changed sometime between AoW1 and Shadow Magic (I blame the wizard conspiracy unknowingly drawing the Shadow Demons in), and in cosmic terms Athla has since become a bastion of good in a region surrounded by evil. The defeat of the Shadow Demons in Shadow Magic offered an opportunity to break out, but that apparently failed.

The approach that's been taken here is that the Athlan armies established a defensive perimeter around Athla, and Athla was sealed to protect it if that perimeter was breached (until Melenis and Werlac broke the seals). Triumph might take a different approach if and when they pick up the fantasy side again.

 

[Rodmar18]

Would you say that what is now the Shadow Realm is structurally gangrened by the astral plane, when there are shifting and treacherous patches of void (associating void with inter-planes medium), caused by the demons who breached and weakened this realm, or that this rather is a local corruption by the demons (like would animated shifting sands in a desert), and the void is just evoked by their presence (or will, like Merlin evoking a thick mist before the battle)? I don't know if I am clear.

Also, in this light, is the "realm" of Wizards just a location, far away in the Shadow Realm, like the Valley of Wonders in Athla, or is it really another realm of existence (or a "planet"). I believe you already explained something about this, but I'd like a booster shot for I might have to slightly alter some translations to not mislead the player (even if in the end, the truth beyond is hardly relevant in the campaign).

 

[Draxynnic]

I was about to give an answer, then I realised I'd probably misunderstood the question in the first paragraph. You're referring to the "void" areas that can't be traversed, right?

I think that void is in the first category - it's a natural characteristic of the paths of the Shadow World that there are some places that you just can't go, and that sometimes they move. In some cases, it's probably less that the void itself is moving, and more that the paths that you can travel through are moving, and void is what you have left when a path is removed. Turning a region into void, therefore, is less about hitting the region with the void, and more about destroying (or removing to somewhere else) whatever was there and void is what is left. Certain powerful entities have the ability to manipulate this, and as seen in some of the later Shadow Magic scenarios, it's possible to get the Shadow World to start to overlap with parts of Athla, causing Athla to have some of the properties of the Shadow World. (This is probably not healthy for the planet in the long term - from memory, in Shadow Magic it was described as starting off with Shadow World features starting to appear on the surface, and then the surface starts getting ripped up and pulled into the Shadow World - presumably, this was reversed after Shadow Magic, although the Sunbirth Mountains still showed some of the scars in AoW3).

Anyway, one way to think of it is that while everything is portrayed as a two-dimensional map, like the underground maps, that probably isn't strictly accurate. Two paths that are adjacent to one another and separated by void on the map might not actually be at the same "altitude", for want of a better word - they might actually be separated in a third dimension, or even in a fourth dimension that those traversing the map do not perceive.

Regarding the Wizard's Realm, it might be worth checking with @Refineus (particularly since I'm largely going off memory here - due to some issues with switching between computers, I don't currently have Dropbox access to double-check the notes and plans), but from what I recall it's essentially a demiplane - it's not a full planet like Athla, but it also doesn't have the properties of the Shadow World. Most likely, it's a region of the Shadow World that the Wizards have used their magic to cut off from the rest of the Shadow World (apart from their own portals), filled with as much magic as they could collect, and reshaped to their liking, attempting to recreate the Circle of Evermore. From the perspective of the protagonists, they don't really know much more than that it's weird, it's separate from both the Shadow World and Athla, and that it's a power source for the wizards with different regions of the demiplane corresponding to different spheres of magic.

 

[Rodmar18]

Your theory about the nature of the new connection between the Shadow Realm and Athla is consistent with what could be said about the Sidhe and their barrows.
To sum up, it's like the demons didn't let the void/ether enter the Realm from outside (by breaching it), they are just erasing fragments of reality on this side of the Shadow Gates. It's a manifestation of their own corruption, and ether/astral is something else outside of Athla and the Realm, something that "is" independently from them.

As for the Wizards' Realm, I was not too far away from this when I translated it like a pocket plane ala Planescape (back then in my mind, surrounded by the Shadow Realm).

I'll update my translations once the descriptions for new demons are over.

 

[Draxynnic]

There's probably a bit of both - creating an overlap so that the rules of the Shadow World start to apply in a region of Athla allows them to start pulling off the shenanigans they can pull in the Shadow World. If you just had a random Shadow Demon hive on a planet that has no connections to the Shadow World, I don't think they'd be able to start creating patches of void without first forming a connection to the Shadow World. It seems to be something that starts happening once the overlap becomes strong enough, and it's really not clear whether it's something the Shadow Demons have any fine control over, or if it's just that having the Shadow World starting to merge with part of a planet naturally results in that part of the planet starting to get torn up if it continues for long enough.

Mind you, a Shadow Demon hive on a planet with no connections to the Shadow World might well stop being Shadow Demons and simply become fantasy Kir'ko. (Planetfall does, incidentally, have a point at which a particular powerful character is able to target specific locations and turn them into Void, although I think what was actually happening storywise is that those who were at the affected locations were imprisoned (but later rescued) rather than obliterated.)

 

[Refineus]

The Wizard Realm, is sort of the sealed-off elevated realm with strong powers where the Wizard were drawn from the world of Athla. The elemental areas is displayed in chaos of various shifting terrain each turn in game

Only shrines built in the real world would proven to increase their respective powers.

In order to eventually unlock itself when Werlac control the core to transfer the Wizards one by one focusing it's Nexus core to link Shadow gates between a plane of elemental chaos and Athla. The focus would then pull the Wizard out of the Wizard Realm and direct their powers into the world of Athla. With the powers of the Nexus core, Meandor and his allies uses Werlacs core to create a path for themselves where the Wizard are drawn to on Athla.

I can elaborate little more on the topic when I got more time. But from memory I would describe it as a void prison.

"Like when leader defeated and goes in to the void, but 100 times stronger”

 

[Rodmar18]

A golden prison, then?
You made it clear that the Shadow Realm is an outwordly place, and not just another deep in the underground. But Wizard's Realm could benefit from a refined explanation (in Grevara's log, or through inter-character dialogues). For example, is it an (indirect) creation from Merlin (a prison like the Tartarus in Hell), or is it a collective creation from the mages when they sought to survive the Shadow Realm, or did it just pre-existed the mages, and they were lucky enough, or stirred to find a Shadow Gate that happened to lead them here? (Are we okay that if a gate links the Shadow Realm to another realm, it's called a Shadow Gate, whatever the destination?)

 

[Refineus]

Upon working on something different I stumbled on the interface that can be altered.

It's very few rows to work with. But it's possible to add text below advanced and underneath the "Restore Default" button.

I think it's something to take advantage of.

 

[Rodmar18]

"Restore Default" is pretty obvious, but "Advanced" could have the following text:
"Weight starting cities and armies, amount of roads, treasures, resources, structures, neutrals, climate and terrain."

If you are tweaking the interface, perhaps you could also solve the following issues:

1) A close button doesn't seem to use any localization key, whereas such key exists in Interface.xml:
TEXT@CLOSE "Close|Fermer|Zamknij|Schliessen|...", that is said to be a button text to close screens.

2) Another button text that doesn't seem to correspond any localization key:

 

[Refineus]

The one in "Options" is "Privacy Policy" which I have no clue.

The "Close" one I have no idea where it's linked.