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Refineus

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Also, take into consideration the ambient light in SR that may change the perceived hue. Would it be possible that you put some of them (at least 8 and 9) in a testing map, along with some other shiny resource sites like SR gold mine and Crystal Tree?

9 looks quite good also with the glow light coming out from middle.

On a different topic.

Should Dread Reaper and Lost Souls have Shadow Walker? I think they should as they had it in previous title along with Spectres who are similar to current Lost Souls.

 

Hiliadan

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Rodmar18

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Ok for me. I'll always place internal consistency and lore above balance (I mean even if it requires a new balance). What was the status of Uncorporeals in AoW:SM?
 

HousePet

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The Shade and Incarnate (Dark Elf) had Shadow Walker.
The Spectre and Dread Reaper (Undead) had Shadow Walker.
Elementals, Magic Servant, Chaos Spawn/Lord and Dragons (Except the Fairy/Ice Dragon) all had Shadow Walker.
Great Wyrm did have Shadow Walker.
 

Rodmar18

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Reversing the question, I'd be for having only Athleans (in the scope of SR) vulnerable to Shadow Sickness (except Draconians due to their heritage). All the others are outsiders, more or less.

I guess that the Wizard Kings should have Shadow Walker too, if not already the case. We have to render them as humans, but they are not native ones.
 

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So should we add Shadow Walker to Elementals (unit requisite), Wisps (= Magic Servant somehow) and Dragons (the unit requisite) too? I think for Dragons it's a no brainer, as we put them on the Shadow layer. Not adding Shadow Walker was a kind of oversight on our end.

Elementals yes, Dragons yes.

Wisps I'm not sure about fairies, I would not place them in the same category as Magic Servant which were a ranged walking unit. Perhaps the Nightshade could be a unit with Shadow Walker. I don't know what other think about the wisp?

Other units viable for the Shadow Walker would be Eldritch Horror.
 

Rodmar18

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Lightning Sprite (combat summon) is a fey too. They could be the only fey with the Shadow Walker ability.

Wisps should be considered the same as Phantasmal Warriors. They are magic constructs before being feys. We could say that, although being incorporeal and summoned into the reality, their appearance and stats are for material worlds. Their intangibility could be altered in the interworld medium, or SR.

Agree for Eldritch Horror as they are outsiders and dimensional travelers.
 

Hiliadan

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Alright, Wisps should not have Shadow Walker.
I'm against giving it to Nightshade Fairies. But why not for Eldritch Horrors.

I'm a bit confused on Dragons because I see on the test map that they DO have Shadow Walker already (as I remembered they had, but it's not listed on the Wiki), just like Angels. But on the ToW, they don't have Shadow Walker listed. So do we have a copy of base game Dragons in the mod?

I'd be for having only Athleans (in the scope of SR) vulnerable to Shadow Sickness
I don't really get what you mean here but that's already the case.
 

Rodmar18

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Yes, Dragons are already listed along Angels. It's the reason why Draconians have it.
Feys are Athleans, let's restrain Shadow Walker to units that are used to travel between dimensions and this includes Humans who are not Athleans (Wizard Kings).
 

Hiliadan

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Dragons are already listed along Angels
Listed where? Not on the Wiki, which is the reference.

Ok, so waiting a bit more to see if Drax or other jump in, but I suggest to confirm the following changes:
- Dread Reaper and Lost Souls get Shadow Walker
- Eldritch Horror gets Shadow Walker
- Elementals get Shadow Walker

Also, topics still open:
- icons of Beacon of Light & Archon Fort
- sword model for the Exterminator (with blood on the sword) (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-expansion-development.1123354/post-27135927)
- body and light reflection of the Elder Frost Dragon (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-expansion-development.1123354/post-27135927)
- Lost Privateer
- defender sets for vanilla sites on the Shadow layer (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-expansion-development.1123354/post-27148787)
- additional roamer set for the Warband Campfire (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-expansion-development.1123354/post-27148787)
- Forgotten Throne's climate & overlay projections (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-expansion-development.1123354/post-24914077)
 

Rodmar18

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Listed in the Shadow Sickness description:
Code:
Does not affect units with Shadow Walker: Angels, Archons, Chthonic Guardian, Draconians, Dragons, Elementals, Machines, Shadow Demons, Shadow Elves, Undead.
Perhaps, Chtonic Guardian could be considered as an angel as far as this list is concerned (to shorten this list, given more candidates are coming)
By the way, there was a bullet list with a single bullet. In French, I separated the list in two so as to have playable and dwelling races on one side:
Code:
[bulletList][bullet]anges et gardienne chtonienne, dragons, démons de l’ombre, élementaires, machines, morts-vivants[/bullet][bullet]Archontes, Draconiens, Elfes des brumes[/bullet][/bulletList]
 

HousePet

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I'm happy with the new Defender sets. The Tomb situation is a little bit weird, but we have bigger issues to deal with.
 

Hiliadan

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@ all: do you remember what changes to the (Undead) Archons we brought? Except changing the name of the Archon TItan to Undead Archon Titan?

Also, could someone please list all the SR sites affected by the bonus from Sanctified Sites and other similar spells please?

I added the Wicked Flames of Ghrauth, Monument to the Ashen Rose and Raven's Keep to the Wiki. I think the defender and reward sets are not necessarily appropriate (based on the Shrine to the Scarlet Destroyer, Sunken City and Forbidden Sanctum respectively), but redesigning them is work for later.

Regarding the defender sets, here are my comments:

Crystal Tree
First set: 1 Draconian apprentice, 1 Phantasm warrior, 2 Lightning sprites, Node Serpent
Second set: 1 Shadow Elf apprentice, 1 Phantasm warrior, 2 Lightning sprites, Node Serpent


==> I'd suggest to merge the two sets, so that there can be Draconian and Shadow Elf apprentices together).

Forbidden Sanctum
First Set: 1 Shadow Elf apprentice, 2 Mature Shock Serpent, 3 Lightning sprites,
Second set: 2 Shadow Demon Harvester, 1 Shadow Elf Shaman, 1 Eldritch Horror, 1 Shadow demon lord
Third set: 1 Archon Avenger, 2 Ancestral Spirits, 1 Shrine of Smithing, 1 Shadow Elf Exalted, 1 Archon saint


==> I am against. 1st set too weak, I suggest to instead use the Forbidden Sanctum's set 3 https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com/wiki/Template:Forbidden_Sanctum and replace the Spiders, Nightmare, Banshee by Shadow Elf Apprentice + Lightning Sprite, by the way, the Serpents don't have Shadow Walker; 2nd set: ok but probably too weak, Harvesters are actually pretty weak when used by the AI, should add Shadow Demon Bombard and maybe Fallen Angel; third set: I suggest to merge with the Sanctum's set 4 by replacing other races by Shadow Elves + adding the Archons.

Flowrock Quarry
2 Shadow Elf Engineers, 1 Musketeer, 1 Lightning cannon,

==> I am against: it needs more variety and also unsure about having a Cannon and those units at a Flowrock Quarry, that's very different from vanilla).
 

Rodmar18

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Archons :
  • MCI: not on T1, and perhaps not on T2 as well.
  • Astral Blast: do you mean like the x1 ranged spirit attack? Or is there a banish effect too? I'd be for a x1 ranged spirit attack, once per battle for any unit.
  • Shadow Slayer: against, but for Undead Slayer, as in AoW2. Only Shadow Elves managed to develop this knowledge. They haven't passed it to their allies (Draconians and Archons). Alternativelly, to fit their unit's description, Legionnaires could have Shadow Demon Slayer on Veteran or Elite.
  • Battle Cry: against if Astral Blast is potent.
  • Modified Avenger's Inspiration (a proposal): to make for the low-tier Archon to not have MCI, etc, Avengers could have a boost at their Inspiration skill. It could grant +20% Spirit Protection, on top of the moral effect.
Defender sets:
  • Forbidden Sanctum: you could replace the SE Apprentice with a Drac Shaman.
  • Flowrock Quarry: what about a second set with Draconiens and a Golem (and a Flamer)?
  • Syron Tomb: For. Having living guard fit to a sanctuary, but follow Dr_K about the battle enchantment.
 

Draxynnic

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From memory (and a few quick checks), pretty much all incorporeals in AoW2SM had Shadow Walker. So that's probably the simple approach to take: if something is Incorporeal, it's also a Shadow Walker. So that would cover Dread Reapers, Banshees, Lost Souls, Phantasm Warriors, and Wisps (which I think makes sense - Wisps are more along the lines of spirits of magic than regular fey).

The Fairy unit in AoW2 didn't have Shadow Walker, so I'd be inclined to extend that to regular fairies from the Sylvan Court.

Eldritch (and Elder) Horrors should definitely have Shadow Walker. They're essentially the AoW3 equivalent of Chaos Lords from a thematic perspective, and Chaos Lords had it, so the Eldritch entities should as well.
 

Hiliadan

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From memory (and a few quick checks), pretty much all incorporeals in AoW2SM had Shadow Walker. So that's probably the simple approach to take: if something is Incorporeal, it's also a Shadow Walker. So that would cover Dread Reapers, Banshees, Lost Souls, Phantasm Warriors, and Wisps (which I think makes sense - Wisps are more along the lines of spirits of magic than regular fey).
So does everyone agree to also give Shadow Walker to all Incorporeals?

EDIT: also, do we agree that Elder creatures (Lost Privateer etc.) all get Shadow Walker? They are built on the Shadow layer through the Forgotten Thrones, so that would be weird if they didn't. / EDIT

Meanwhile, I'm confirming this:
- Dread Reaper and Lost Souls get Shadow Walker
- Eldritch Horror gets Shadow Walker

Could someone please implement it in the mod tool? I'm updating the Wiki.

Still waiting for comments and answers on the topics I listed in my previous posts on this page 15 of the thread.
 
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Rodmar18

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Yes.
By the way, does the Inflict Shadow Sickness ability have a physical resistance check?
 

Hiliadan

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does the Inflict Shadow Sickness ability have a physical resistance check?
Where have you seen this ability? It is supposed not to be used in the mod.


On another topic, could someone please make a 250x40 ratio banner for the expansion with just a relevant background and "Shadow Realm" written, like for the Eternal Lords expansion (which is actually 1433 x 240):

I would use it in the Wiki.


EDIT: I drafted a text for the ToW for the "Shadow layer (game concept)", in mirror to the text for UG:
The Underground is all of the terrain that is located under the surface. It is typically connected to the surface layer by use of cave entrances. Using these entrances to move from the underground to the surface does not cost any move points.[br/][br/]See also: [hyperlink,GameConcept-00000159000001F5]Cavern dirt walls[/hyperlink], [hyperlink,GameConcept-000001590000023F]Terrain[/hyperlink], [hyperlink,GameConcept-000001590000023D]Surface[/hyperlink], [hyperlink,Tip-00000159000002A0]Strategic map[/hyperlink].

I'm unsure how the hyperlinks work. Anyone knows how to know for sure the ID of the hyperlink? I think we can get it in debug mode but unsure if it's a permanent ID or if it might change. Here is the text I suggest:
The Shadow layer is all of the terrain that belongs to the Shadow Realm, a wild and dangerous plane where mortals suffer from a debilitating force, called Shadow Sickness. Shadow Realm natives and Shadow Walkers do not suffer from Shadow Sickness.[br/]
It is typically connected to both the surface and underground layers by use of Shadow Gates. Using these gates to move in or out of the Shadow layer does not cost any move points.


With links to Terrain, Surface, Underground, Strategic map, Shadow Sickness, Vulnerable to Shadow Sickness.
 
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