Do you use the system that is handled by triumph? [Brl] [brl/] and also some of the color patterns that can be used?
The game reads this small codes in text as spaces and couler. Can useful to apply does for tow and desc
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
The game reads this small codes in text as spaces and couler. Can useful to apply does for tow and desc
.png){kind=avatar}
I've added these MCUs in. They weren't previously in the game at all.
I've updated the descriptions for disrupted equipment.
I've updated the description for the thrones
This should be fixed.
.png){kind=avatar}
Thanks! I updated the list.
One new one:
- Archon Saint is not Devoted to Good (should be) nor has she any preferred terrain
One new one:
- Archon Saint is not Devoted to Good (should be) nor has she any preferred terrain
I'm enjoying the open beta and have some feedback for you. I'll start with bugs.
Shadow Elves' Siege Workshop's description says it will unlock Trebuchets, but it does not actually unlock Trebuchets to be produced. Battering Rams are also unavailable for Shadow Elves, which is unusual and unexplained but doesn't explicitly conflict with any description. (My guess is that you just need to explicitly unlock these for each newly modded race.) It looks like sieging cities will be a Shadow Elf weakness, with only 2.5 racial units (Infused, Touched, Lightning Sprites) having any sort of ability to bypass walls, so it'd probably be best to give them the vanilla siege options, or at least to make the Siege Workshop description not offer false hope.
Elder units from Forgotten Thrones (e.g., Elder Bone Dragon and Elder Phoenix) have no Tome of Wonders entries.
The tactical combat map for the shadow realm Beacon of Light site is pretty messed up, with many invisible obstacles. The tactical combat map for tundra non-walled city defense also contained at least one invisible obstacle, next to a wagon. (I'm playing on pretty low graphical settings, to combat frame-rate issues in the vanilla game, so I suppose the problem might be that you/Decodence have added some tactical obstacles that have only high-res models or something, so become invisible on low graphical settings?)
Hollow Grove does not show up on the strategic zoomed out paper map. (This may be a result of it not providing any resources, though there are other sites, like weapons racks, that do appear despite not giving resources. Perhaps it would make sense to give it +10 knowledge/turn or something, if that's what it takes to make it appear. That'd also make the site a bit more useful aside from the relatively rare niche case of a MCU that is primarily just for melee oriented supports.)
Shadow Sickness seems to be a bit buggy. When vulnerable units first appear (like a newly recruited Tigran hero in the shadow realm) their displayed stats are as I would expect with the shadow realm providing negative stats. However, these debuffs seem to disappear within tactical combat, which of course is the only place they really matter. Also, visiting the Shadow Weeds to provide temporary immunity has the immediate effect of providing a displayed +1 damage on each of the 6 possible damage channels that the unit didn't already have, though fortunately that too disappears in tactical combat. (I know you're trying to work within the modding capabilities the game has, so we may be stuck with some display glitches, but it seems like the problems here aren't just in the display.)
Thanks for making a great mod!
Shadow Elves' Siege Workshop's description says it will unlock Trebuchets, but it does not actually unlock Trebuchets to be produced. Battering Rams are also unavailable for Shadow Elves, which is unusual and unexplained but doesn't explicitly conflict with any description. (My guess is that you just need to explicitly unlock these for each newly modded race.) It looks like sieging cities will be a Shadow Elf weakness, with only 2.5 racial units (Infused, Touched, Lightning Sprites) having any sort of ability to bypass walls, so it'd probably be best to give them the vanilla siege options, or at least to make the Siege Workshop description not offer false hope.
Elder units from Forgotten Thrones (e.g., Elder Bone Dragon and Elder Phoenix) have no Tome of Wonders entries.
The tactical combat map for the shadow realm Beacon of Light site is pretty messed up, with many invisible obstacles. The tactical combat map for tundra non-walled city defense also contained at least one invisible obstacle, next to a wagon. (I'm playing on pretty low graphical settings, to combat frame-rate issues in the vanilla game, so I suppose the problem might be that you/Decodence have added some tactical obstacles that have only high-res models or something, so become invisible on low graphical settings?)
Hollow Grove does not show up on the strategic zoomed out paper map. (This may be a result of it not providing any resources, though there are other sites, like weapons racks, that do appear despite not giving resources. Perhaps it would make sense to give it +10 knowledge/turn or something, if that's what it takes to make it appear. That'd also make the site a bit more useful aside from the relatively rare niche case of a MCU that is primarily just for melee oriented supports.)
Shadow Sickness seems to be a bit buggy. When vulnerable units first appear (like a newly recruited Tigran hero in the shadow realm) their displayed stats are as I would expect with the shadow realm providing negative stats. However, these debuffs seem to disappear within tactical combat, which of course is the only place they really matter. Also, visiting the Shadow Weeds to provide temporary immunity has the immediate effect of providing a displayed +1 damage on each of the 6 possible damage channels that the unit didn't already have, though fortunately that too disappears in tactical combat. (I know you're trying to work within the modding capabilities the game has, so we may be stuck with some display glitches, but it seems like the problems here aren't just in the display.)
Thanks for making a great mod!
Here's some feedback on the Shadow Realm itself, as produced by the RMG.
First the good. Great aesthetic! It feels dark, alien and oppressive. (By comparison, so long as you have dark vision, the underground layer feels very open, bright, and high-visibility, which is strange because, of the three layers, you would expect cave tunnels to allow the least visibility. Probably the game should have -1 vision range for everyone underground, and also -1 bonus from dark vision to make the caves feel a lot more like caves. It should probably also have +2 strategic movement cost for everything in caves and for everything on water, but that's off topic.)
The zoomed out paper map isn't as useful as it could be. Some sites (e.g., Hollow Grove) aren't displayed on it. Other sites have icons that are misleading or not very useful. It'd probably be best to make the ubiquitous Shadow Weeds have a distinctive icon that sets them apart, e.g., make them have the same "useless plant" icon that flowers of solace have. It's very odd to have the glass furnaces show up with a plant icon on the map, especially the same plant icon as all the Shadow Weeds. It'd probably make more sense to make them have the "mine" icon like their magma-forge cousins, or at least to make sure that they have a different plant icon from the Shadow Weeds (e.g., by making Shadow Weeds all have the flowers of solace icon). The Celestial Pool is also a highly useful visit structure, but its map icon makes it blend in with all the other 3-window treasure sites -- probably better to give it a visit site icon, either like an angel shrine, or whichever plant icon you don't use for Shadow Weeds.
Topographically, the shadow realm feels quite boring, compared to the other two layers. The main geography differences between shadow realm and surface is that the shadow realm has completely impassible void blocking passage in many places around the periphery, whereas the surface instead has numerous rivers, lakes, and oceans. Impassable void is a pretty boring mechanic, since it offers no interactions at all -- no ships or swimmers or fliers or floaters can cross over it, and there's no way to tunnel through it or bridge over it or freeze it. The void also seems not to punctuate much of the interior of the map, so doesn't help to create separate regions and choke points nearly so much as surface water does. The main geography differences between shadow realm and caves are (1) that caves' completely impassable rock walls are sprinkled in the interior of large maps to separate regions and create chokes, rather than voids encroaching from all edges, (2) and that the shadow realm's only distinctive semi-passable terrain is mountains (which are completely un-terraformable, and mountainwalking is hard to come by), whereas caves have tunnellable dirt walls, lakes and rivers, and also magma that can be passed by a few units.
Suggestion #1. I think the Shadow Realm should have a lot more water. Not necessarily rivers like the other two layers, but a lot of pools and small lakes, including semi-long "finger" lakes that can help to create chokes. I think it could also be fine/interesting to include some lava pools (though it might not fit the color scheme, and so long as void continues to be lava-colored on the paper map, this could raise confusion.)
Suggestion #2. Void should somehow be semi-passable. As a first stab, I'd let floaters but not flyers enter the void (not flyers makes it distinctive, but also can be justified by absence of thick buoyant air in the voids). There should be a specific Void Passage ability, akin to Lava Walking, that a few other units have, e.g., Shadow Elf infused and touched and night guards, some/all shadow demons, draconian flyers, wyverns, dragons, floating undead, nightshade fairies, shadow stalkers, void serpents, horrors, cherubs, spy drones. Void Passage should be acquirable by a a variety of means, e.g., looted items, forged items, hero skills for self or for party, from a Shrine-like visit site, as a perk of rogue research, as a perk of some racial governance picks (e.g., it could be one of the mobility buffs goblin untoucha. Entering the void should be harmful to most units that don't have Void Passage, e.g., dealing 2 frost + 2 shock damage for each step taken in void. (Mechanically, this might mean making each void tile become a sort of visit site, which could also have the benefit of making an appropriately void-colored icon appear all over the void on the zoomed-out paper map, rather than jarring red lava.) Void should somehow be terraformable, e.g., perhaps with a spell that turns void into water (which then in turn could be bridged by a builder). If voids are made more passable and interactive, it could make sense to amp up the creation of pools of void in the interior of the map, which could help to segregate the map into regions and choke points.
Suggestion #3. Since the Shadow Realm has less interactive semi-passable terrain than other layers, Shadow Realm mountains should probably be a bit more interactive than surface mountains are. There could be a terraforming spell that lowers only shadow realm mountains (reflecting the ever-morphing nature of the Shadow Realm), and perhaps the corresponding spell to raise shadow realm lands to become mountains (though that might be abusable, especially versus AI). There could be a shadow-realm visit site that provides mountain walking (or shadow-mountain walking, if that's moddable), akin to the haste berries found on the other two layers. Alternatively/additionally a shadow realm visit site could provide *floating*, which would have the effect of providing mountain-walking, and forest- and swamp-walking, and if combined with suggestion #2 above would also give units a painful opportunity to cross voids. Several relevant units could be given mountain walking (or "shadow-mountain walking"), e.g., Draconian Chargers and Raptors, and Shadow Elf Exterminators and Archers. If mountains are made more passable, it might then make sense to amp up mountain generation in the RMG to help segregate the map more into regions and choke points.
Suggestion #4. Sites and lairs in the shadow realm could be better diversified. E.g., I see no reason why the Shadow Realm couldn't have Brigand Hideouts (with appropriate unit sets), Haunted Boneyards (vanilla unit sets should be close enough to fine since undead are already shadow walkers), Necromantic Circles (vanilla unit sets would probably again be close enough to fine), Dungeons (probably would need new unit sets and rewards), Libraries (existing unit sets would be close to fine, though may want to add the weed decoction enchantment to help living mages), Springs of Life (with new rewards and either new guardians or auto-casting shadow weed decoction), and Great Farms (would need new unit sets, or to auto-cast shadow-weed concoction, which seems fine enough for a place that's intentionally growing plants anyway). Incidentally the wiki claims the Shadow Realm won't have Wells of Souls, but it does, which seems fine.
Suggestion #5. The Shadow Realm is somewhat boring due to the lack of diversity of its inhabitants. It'll help if you can somehow get dwelling generation up to a reasonable level. I wonder if number of dwellings generated drops when available dwelling races is low, in which case adding more dwelling races (or even just carbon copies of existing races) would help produce more dwellings? One easy addition to the Shadow Realm would be Fairies, whose magical nature could easily justify Shadow Walking, or who could at least have a building to provide Shadow Weed decoction in their domain. I think it could be fine to have Giants in the Shadow Realm too, and to give them Shadow Walking. Of course, a Shadow Demon dwelling would be nice too! It would also be pretty straight-forward to create a Spider Dwelling, and spiders would be decent candidates to get Shadow Walking, and to dwell in the Shadow Realm (and other layers). Among existing full-fledged races, Halflings and Frostlings are probably the best candidates for inclusion on the shadow realm, since each is already somewhat magical in nature, and each already dislikes Subterranean so each is limited to a single layer, which would be a significant disadvantage. (Humans and High Elves are also limited to the surface, but humans don't seem thematically appropriate for either other layer, and High Elves probably need to be barred to maintain product differentiation from Shadow Elves.) In contrast, Shadow Elves and Draconians have a quite unfair advantage, in that they can happily dwell on all three layers, so it might make sense, for balance reasons, to cut a layer from each of them: e.g., making Shadow Elves dislike the sunny surface (so they'll just be Shadow Realm + Underground), and perhaps making Draconians dislike cave walls (so they'll be mostly surface and shadow realm).
First the good. Great aesthetic! It feels dark, alien and oppressive. (By comparison, so long as you have dark vision, the underground layer feels very open, bright, and high-visibility, which is strange because, of the three layers, you would expect cave tunnels to allow the least visibility. Probably the game should have -1 vision range for everyone underground, and also -1 bonus from dark vision to make the caves feel a lot more like caves. It should probably also have +2 strategic movement cost for everything in caves and for everything on water, but that's off topic.)
The zoomed out paper map isn't as useful as it could be. Some sites (e.g., Hollow Grove) aren't displayed on it. Other sites have icons that are misleading or not very useful. It'd probably be best to make the ubiquitous Shadow Weeds have a distinctive icon that sets them apart, e.g., make them have the same "useless plant" icon that flowers of solace have. It's very odd to have the glass furnaces show up with a plant icon on the map, especially the same plant icon as all the Shadow Weeds. It'd probably make more sense to make them have the "mine" icon like their magma-forge cousins, or at least to make sure that they have a different plant icon from the Shadow Weeds (e.g., by making Shadow Weeds all have the flowers of solace icon). The Celestial Pool is also a highly useful visit structure, but its map icon makes it blend in with all the other 3-window treasure sites -- probably better to give it a visit site icon, either like an angel shrine, or whichever plant icon you don't use for Shadow Weeds.
Topographically, the shadow realm feels quite boring, compared to the other two layers. The main geography differences between shadow realm and surface is that the shadow realm has completely impassible void blocking passage in many places around the periphery, whereas the surface instead has numerous rivers, lakes, and oceans. Impassable void is a pretty boring mechanic, since it offers no interactions at all -- no ships or swimmers or fliers or floaters can cross over it, and there's no way to tunnel through it or bridge over it or freeze it. The void also seems not to punctuate much of the interior of the map, so doesn't help to create separate regions and choke points nearly so much as surface water does. The main geography differences between shadow realm and caves are (1) that caves' completely impassable rock walls are sprinkled in the interior of large maps to separate regions and create chokes, rather than voids encroaching from all edges, (2) and that the shadow realm's only distinctive semi-passable terrain is mountains (which are completely un-terraformable, and mountainwalking is hard to come by), whereas caves have tunnellable dirt walls, lakes and rivers, and also magma that can be passed by a few units.
Suggestion #1. I think the Shadow Realm should have a lot more water. Not necessarily rivers like the other two layers, but a lot of pools and small lakes, including semi-long "finger" lakes that can help to create chokes. I think it could also be fine/interesting to include some lava pools (though it might not fit the color scheme, and so long as void continues to be lava-colored on the paper map, this could raise confusion.)
Suggestion #2. Void should somehow be semi-passable. As a first stab, I'd let floaters but not flyers enter the void (not flyers makes it distinctive, but also can be justified by absence of thick buoyant air in the voids). There should be a specific Void Passage ability, akin to Lava Walking, that a few other units have, e.g., Shadow Elf infused and touched and night guards, some/all shadow demons, draconian flyers, wyverns, dragons, floating undead, nightshade fairies, shadow stalkers, void serpents, horrors, cherubs, spy drones. Void Passage should be acquirable by a a variety of means, e.g., looted items, forged items, hero skills for self or for party, from a Shrine-like visit site, as a perk of rogue research, as a perk of some racial governance picks (e.g., it could be one of the mobility buffs goblin untoucha. Entering the void should be harmful to most units that don't have Void Passage, e.g., dealing 2 frost + 2 shock damage for each step taken in void. (Mechanically, this might mean making each void tile become a sort of visit site, which could also have the benefit of making an appropriately void-colored icon appear all over the void on the zoomed-out paper map, rather than jarring red lava.) Void should somehow be terraformable, e.g., perhaps with a spell that turns void into water (which then in turn could be bridged by a builder). If voids are made more passable and interactive, it could make sense to amp up the creation of pools of void in the interior of the map, which could help to segregate the map into regions and choke points.
Suggestion #3. Since the Shadow Realm has less interactive semi-passable terrain than other layers, Shadow Realm mountains should probably be a bit more interactive than surface mountains are. There could be a terraforming spell that lowers only shadow realm mountains (reflecting the ever-morphing nature of the Shadow Realm), and perhaps the corresponding spell to raise shadow realm lands to become mountains (though that might be abusable, especially versus AI). There could be a shadow-realm visit site that provides mountain walking (or shadow-mountain walking, if that's moddable), akin to the haste berries found on the other two layers. Alternatively/additionally a shadow realm visit site could provide *floating*, which would have the effect of providing mountain-walking, and forest- and swamp-walking, and if combined with suggestion #2 above would also give units a painful opportunity to cross voids. Several relevant units could be given mountain walking (or "shadow-mountain walking"), e.g., Draconian Chargers and Raptors, and Shadow Elf Exterminators and Archers. If mountains are made more passable, it might then make sense to amp up mountain generation in the RMG to help segregate the map more into regions and choke points.
Suggestion #4. Sites and lairs in the shadow realm could be better diversified. E.g., I see no reason why the Shadow Realm couldn't have Brigand Hideouts (with appropriate unit sets), Haunted Boneyards (vanilla unit sets should be close enough to fine since undead are already shadow walkers), Necromantic Circles (vanilla unit sets would probably again be close enough to fine), Dungeons (probably would need new unit sets and rewards), Libraries (existing unit sets would be close to fine, though may want to add the weed decoction enchantment to help living mages), Springs of Life (with new rewards and either new guardians or auto-casting shadow weed decoction), and Great Farms (would need new unit sets, or to auto-cast shadow-weed concoction, which seems fine enough for a place that's intentionally growing plants anyway). Incidentally the wiki claims the Shadow Realm won't have Wells of Souls, but it does, which seems fine.
Suggestion #5. The Shadow Realm is somewhat boring due to the lack of diversity of its inhabitants. It'll help if you can somehow get dwelling generation up to a reasonable level. I wonder if number of dwellings generated drops when available dwelling races is low, in which case adding more dwelling races (or even just carbon copies of existing races) would help produce more dwellings? One easy addition to the Shadow Realm would be Fairies, whose magical nature could easily justify Shadow Walking, or who could at least have a building to provide Shadow Weed decoction in their domain. I think it could be fine to have Giants in the Shadow Realm too, and to give them Shadow Walking. Of course, a Shadow Demon dwelling would be nice too! It would also be pretty straight-forward to create a Spider Dwelling, and spiders would be decent candidates to get Shadow Walking, and to dwell in the Shadow Realm (and other layers). Among existing full-fledged races, Halflings and Frostlings are probably the best candidates for inclusion on the shadow realm, since each is already somewhat magical in nature, and each already dislikes Subterranean so each is limited to a single layer, which would be a significant disadvantage. (Humans and High Elves are also limited to the surface, but humans don't seem thematically appropriate for either other layer, and High Elves probably need to be barred to maintain product differentiation from Shadow Elves.) In contrast, Shadow Elves and Draconians have a quite unfair advantage, in that they can happily dwell on all three layers, so it might make sense, for balance reasons, to cut a layer from each of them: e.g., making Shadow Elves dislike the sunny surface (so they'll just be Shadow Realm + Underground), and perhaps making Draconians dislike cave walls (so they'll be mostly surface and shadow realm).
Suggestion:
Make both Shadow Walkers genuine inhabitants of the Shadow Realm, and make them (allied to) Shadow Demon units. They would be their outriders, the ones who roam Athla to pervert the society's underbellies (scoundrels) as well as influent minds and serve he who may be gained to the cause and open wide the gates (sorcerers, rogues).
Make both Shadow Walkers genuine inhabitants of the Shadow Realm, and make them (allied to) Shadow Demon units. They would be their outriders, the ones who roam Athla to pervert the society's underbellies (scoundrels) as well as influent minds and serve he who may be gained to the cause and open wide the gates (sorcerers, rogues).
Here's a few apparent bugs. I stumbled on them while playing the campaign, but they should appear with the RMG content as well.
Storm Priest can't summon Wisps when immobilized
As when a Dark Angel petrifies him. If I'm not wrong, the status "Immobilized" only prevents movement; the unit can cast spell-like abilities. However, it can't summon a Wisp on an adjacent hex. Could this be related to the fact that Summon Wisp always usually includes a movement phase (the Storm Priest first moves to target location, then summons the Wisp adjacent to him)?
Tame Shadow Demon is said to trigger a retaliation
At least in the before-action popup, when attempted against this Earth Elemental. Please compare the same situation as regarded to Tame Animal and Tame Shadow Demon. In the latter case, the elemental is said to retaliate. Such a shame I didn't test whether the action actually occurs.
Wild Magic Morph Terrain spell and SR climate?
Granted, I never used this spell before, and I wanted to give it a try. It is said to affect a targeted city's domain. When I cast the spell, whether on an enemy or a possessed town, I can't select any city. Nothing happens. I get no error message. No CP is lost.
Storm Priest can't summon Wisps when immobilized
As when a Dark Angel petrifies him. If I'm not wrong, the status "Immobilized" only prevents movement; the unit can cast spell-like abilities. However, it can't summon a Wisp on an adjacent hex. Could this be related to the fact that Summon Wisp always usually includes a movement phase (the Storm Priest first moves to target location, then summons the Wisp adjacent to him)?
Tame Shadow Demon is said to trigger a retaliation
At least in the before-action popup, when attempted against this Earth Elemental. Please compare the same situation as regarded to Tame Animal and Tame Shadow Demon. In the latter case, the elemental is said to retaliate. Such a shame I didn't test whether the action actually occurs.
Wild Magic Morph Terrain spell and SR climate?
Granted, I never used this spell before, and I wanted to give it a try. It is said to affect a targeted city's domain. When I cast the spell, whether on an enemy or a possessed town, I can't select any city. Nothing happens. I get no error message. No CP is lost.
Attachments
@Hiliadan / @Dr_K
I believe the papermap icons are defined in the site definitions, not bound to site yields, so any odd ones should be easily corrected.
@TelosTelos
The "useless plant icon" isn't useless, as its the only plant site in the Shadow Realm. Glass Furnaces should not use that icon though. I suspect we don't ever look at the paper map much and haven't noticed the bugs.
Suggestion #1: I think we (as in people who work on this) generally agree that the terrain it generates isn't great. We are intending on adding in Water at a later date, and I really wish I had some time to try rewriting the land generation passes to make it less chunky.
Suggestion #2: I'm not sure about this. Its equivalent to Impassable Cavern Wall and the only good blocking feature in the Shadow Realm at the moment.
Suggestion #3: I like the idea of a Shrine that grants Floating (and I'm noting it), however I'm not sure what will happen if that runs out while you are over water. I know that the game has built in Drown / Immolate(lava) mechanics. The AI might do some really stupid things if we make it possible.
Suggestion #4: We were intending on having more Shadow Realm unique sites, but we have limited site graphic creation abilities. We may resort to using some of the other existing ones in future.
Suggestion #5: Ideally, we would also have Syrons as a playable race and Shadow Demons as a Dwelling. I've been busy with something else, but I thought Shadow Elves disliked Underground unless you took the Racial Governance option for it. Changing Draconians to Dislike something in the Underground layer might be problematic for general balance. Theoretically the extra cold channel damage in the Shadow Realm should make them less suited to the Shadow Realm.
I believe the papermap icons are defined in the site definitions, not bound to site yields, so any odd ones should be easily corrected.
@TelosTelos
The "useless plant icon" isn't useless, as its the only plant site in the Shadow Realm. Glass Furnaces should not use that icon though. I suspect we don't ever look at the paper map much and haven't noticed the bugs.
Suggestion #1: I think we (as in people who work on this) generally agree that the terrain it generates isn't great. We are intending on adding in Water at a later date, and I really wish I had some time to try rewriting the land generation passes to make it less chunky.
Suggestion #2: I'm not sure about this. Its equivalent to Impassable Cavern Wall and the only good blocking feature in the Shadow Realm at the moment.
Suggestion #3: I like the idea of a Shrine that grants Floating (and I'm noting it), however I'm not sure what will happen if that runs out while you are over water. I know that the game has built in Drown / Immolate(lava) mechanics. The AI might do some really stupid things if we make it possible.
Suggestion #4: We were intending on having more Shadow Realm unique sites, but we have limited site graphic creation abilities. We may resort to using some of the other existing ones in future.
Suggestion #5: Ideally, we would also have Syrons as a playable race and Shadow Demons as a Dwelling. I've been busy with something else, but I thought Shadow Elves disliked Underground unless you took the Racial Governance option for it. Changing Draconians to Dislike something in the Underground layer might be problematic for general balance. Theoretically the extra cold channel damage in the Shadow Realm should make them less suited to the Shadow Realm.
Yeah, I'm definitely guilty of not looking at the paper map. In most of those cases, the links were probably never changed when using an existing site as a start or added when made from scratch.
@TelosTelos @Rodmar18
Many thanks for the bug reports and screenshots! I hope the mod is at least somewhat enjoyable despite those issues
I'm a bit confused as to how the Beacon of Light issue happened since all of the tactical maps should have been existing ones, but yeah that definitely needs fixing.
I vaguely remember there being a display issue with it, which only ended up being a display issue (I think it was also not fixable). In combat the Shadow Sickness Buff/Debuff effects should be applied correctly. If you come across the issue again, can you possibly upload a save game (can only be attached as a zip file)? I'll see if I can replicate it.
The implementation of Shadow Sickness was a bit wonky since it was done to avoid editing every individual unit (also provides better compatibility with other mods), so I'm not entirely surprised there are some issues with it.
I would believe that the is probably the reason for the issue. Do we know of any abilities that are move+use that are usable when the unit is immobile? I have a feeling they are mutually exclusive.
That is weird, I'm pretty sure Tame Animal was used as the template for that ability. I'll see if I can replicate it.
Do we know what happens when it it used in the underground? I feel like it didn't work underground either, but I haven't used it in a while.
As opposed to changing void, how hard would it be to add impassable mountains (or a copy that is nearly impassable) or rapid to the RMG passes for the Shadow Realm. While probably increasing the general size of shadow realm land masses.
After writing that, it sounds a lot taller of an order than I initially thought
Any idea if the AI frequently gets units killed when using Wild Hunt? It obviously doesn't wear off in the same way, though.
Is it possible to have the RMG place Ghouled Cities? Could place a bunch of Ghouled cities in the Shadow Realm, which would probably thematically, and kind of lore-wise make sense.
Along the same lines, would it make sense to add some ghouled units to the roamer sets?
Beacon of Light tactical map issue:
I suspect that while these are generally copied, some of the resources from the copied map might not be accessible to the game when it loads it. Maybe check the debug log for error messages and then see if there is something not linked.
Morph Terrain: I forgot this one, but this spell is Surface only. It won't work in any other layer.
Impassable Mountains: The shadow mountains in AoW:SM were impassable, so it might be worth looking into. I'm not sure if we have a suitable appearance for them though. Might look weird.
Floating/Wild Hunt: I suspect that is a very rare occurrence. (I did think of this at the time.) Its also likely to be caused by a Disjunct, which you can't really anticipate, so I doubt the AI would have anything to try to stop the units from dying.
Ghouled Cities: I don't recall seeing an option for that anywhere. I suspect its not possible. Likewise, I'm not sure ghouled units exist unless we manually make them.
I suspect that while these are generally copied, some of the resources from the copied map might not be accessible to the game when it loads it. Maybe check the debug log for error messages and then see if there is something not linked.
Morph Terrain: I forgot this one, but this spell is Surface only. It won't work in any other layer.
Impassable Mountains: The shadow mountains in AoW:SM were impassable, so it might be worth looking into. I'm not sure if we have a suitable appearance for them though. Might look weird.
Floating/Wild Hunt: I suspect that is a very rare occurrence. (I did think of this at the time.) Its also likely to be caused by a Disjunct, which you can't really anticipate, so I doubt the AI would have anything to try to stop the units from dying.
Ghouled Cities: I don't recall seeing an option for that anywhere. I suspect its not possible. Likewise, I'm not sure ghouled units exist unless we manually make them.
Suggestion #2: On the other hand, twisted, intermingled impassable terrain makes me think about the dimensional rooms in Planescape/Baldur's Gate. Alas, I figure that it's not possible to have shifting void patches changing on every number of turns, like you made the terrain switch on every turn in Wizard Realm.
Note that I've played only the campaign so far, not a random map.
What's wrong me is the red color on the zoomed-out map (as if void was lava; I guess that void stands for lava in the SR). Speaking about visuals, I'd have a reinforced effect for the void patches. Currently, there's a faint purple line-up; it could be reinforced, in my opinion. It depends whether you see the Void as pure darkness or some magic, hazzy field (at least on its border). This would render a kind of visual distorsion, not a real lighted area. A bit like the Realm in Dragon Age 2, if you see.
Note that I've played only the campaign so far, not a random map.
What's wrong me is the red color on the zoomed-out map (as if void was lava; I guess that void stands for lava in the SR). Speaking about visuals, I'd have a reinforced effect for the void patches. Currently, there's a faint purple line-up; it could be reinforced, in my opinion. It depends whether you see the Void as pure darkness or some magic, hazzy field (at least on its border). This would render a kind of visual distorsion, not a real lighted area. A bit like the Realm in Dragon Age 2, if you see.
I should see if I can make the Blocked River generator put in some Void Crevasses some time. That would break up the massive continents a bit.
I think the Blocked River generator is overzealous on surface maps, making much-too-long impassable rivers, which often can be circumvented only by embarking to sail around their mouths, which of course won't be an option in the shadow realm, so this sounds like a recipe for completely dividing regions. Maybe if you can tweak a setting to cut the length of the impassable crevasses to about a third of its default setting that would be good. (If I had to guess though, this is probably just a copy of the RMG river generator, except painting entirely with rapids rather than with water, so it probably doesn't have parameters that could easily make it suitable for a shadow-crevasse generator. Maybe there's some way you could change it to make 75% void, 25% land -- that'd make a pretty decent barrier. I guess one option might be just to run the Rapids-generator to make a few rapids-rivers in the shadow realm, and then in another pass, swap out 75% of the rapids tiles for void, and the remaining rapids for land, maybe swamps.)
Another option we might consider is adding small clumps of diggable dirt to the shadow realm to help make semi-passable interactive terrain. In small clumps, diggable dirt has a spiky/moundy appearance that could fit pretty well with shadow mountains. In larger clumps it forms the flat-topped appearance you often see underground, which probably wouldn't look so good in the shadow realm (unless you can change the art to some sort of void-swept shadow plateau?). Anyway, if mountain ranges could have a few diggable passes/tunnels across them, that could justify amping up mountain production in the Shadow Realm to make more natural boundaries and chokes. You might also be able to create interesting "badlands" patches consisting of an interspersed mix of barrens, diggable dirt, mountains, and maybe even water, lava, or void. This would initially be a region-dividing obstacle, but could be made more passable with digging, roads, and/or bridges.
@HousePet likened the void to impassable rock walls in caves. The RMG is pretty sparing in its production of rock walls; it complements them with diggable dirt walls, lava, rivers and lakes; and it sprinkles impassable rock patches in the interior of the underground layer, rather than just around the periphery where I've seen void. To get void to play these roles, we'd need (1) to sprinkle more pools or chasms of void around the interior of the shadow realm to help separate regions, though sparingly enough to not completely divide them, and (2) to complement void with other semi-passable terrains, akin to the diggable dirt, lava, and/or water that helps to divide caves into regions.
@Dr_K hoped that we still enjoyed the mod despite the issues we encountered. YES, indeed I have! The issues are quite small, and the only one that was truly frustrating was the combat map with numerous invisible obstacles. I've definitely enjoyed getting to know the Shadow Elves, the aesthetic of the Shadow Realm, and the interesting topology of a 3-layer game. Most of my other feedback was geared towards making a good mod better! Thanks again for all your work on it!
Another option we might consider is adding small clumps of diggable dirt to the shadow realm to help make semi-passable interactive terrain. In small clumps, diggable dirt has a spiky/moundy appearance that could fit pretty well with shadow mountains. In larger clumps it forms the flat-topped appearance you often see underground, which probably wouldn't look so good in the shadow realm (unless you can change the art to some sort of void-swept shadow plateau?). Anyway, if mountain ranges could have a few diggable passes/tunnels across them, that could justify amping up mountain production in the Shadow Realm to make more natural boundaries and chokes. You might also be able to create interesting "badlands" patches consisting of an interspersed mix of barrens, diggable dirt, mountains, and maybe even water, lava, or void. This would initially be a region-dividing obstacle, but could be made more passable with digging, roads, and/or bridges.
@HousePet likened the void to impassable rock walls in caves. The RMG is pretty sparing in its production of rock walls; it complements them with diggable dirt walls, lava, rivers and lakes; and it sprinkles impassable rock patches in the interior of the underground layer, rather than just around the periphery where I've seen void. To get void to play these roles, we'd need (1) to sprinkle more pools or chasms of void around the interior of the shadow realm to help separate regions, though sparingly enough to not completely divide them, and (2) to complement void with other semi-passable terrains, akin to the diggable dirt, lava, and/or water that helps to divide caves into regions.
@Dr_K hoped that we still enjoyed the mod despite the issues we encountered. YES, indeed I have! The issues are quite small, and the only one that was truly frustrating was the combat map with numerous invisible obstacles. I've definitely enjoyed getting to know the Shadow Elves, the aesthetic of the Shadow Realm, and the interesting topology of a 3-layer game. Most of my other feedback was geared towards making a good mod better! Thanks again for all your work on it!
Your diggable dirt gives me an idea to complement the Shadow Realm geography.
- We could have semi-passable void channels, only 1 hex wide (like water streams) or 2.
- They would be semi-passable because only units attuned to Shadows could use them: Shadow Daemons (and shadow elemental), some SE units (which?, or only the Touched Ones?), Uncorporeals. They would be as costly as passable mountains (it's the idea). I think they could bring a renewed interest to Touched that I sadly despise because, as any evolving T1, and though it costs less to produce, it doesn't benefit from the evolved unit's MCU abilities, if any. For instance, they (and Uncorporeals) could have a movement bonus in these channels.
- If possible, instead of being like water bodies you can cross in all directions, they would be like tunnels with but two exits, thus linking to isolated regions or bypassing natural choke points and other features (not unlike water or lava streams in the Underground, that meander between unpassable rock).
- They could link to special pockets of roaming Shadow Demons, thus making them dangerous to travel.
- There could be a special random strategic events that close such channels or open them wide (granting bonus movement to units which may travel them). Call it Shadow Surge for example.
- We could have semi-passable void channels, only 1 hex wide (like water streams) or 2.
- They would be semi-passable because only units attuned to Shadows could use them: Shadow Daemons (and shadow elemental), some SE units (which?, or only the Touched Ones?), Uncorporeals. They would be as costly as passable mountains (it's the idea). I think they could bring a renewed interest to Touched that I sadly despise because, as any evolving T1, and though it costs less to produce, it doesn't benefit from the evolved unit's MCU abilities, if any. For instance, they (and Uncorporeals) could have a movement bonus in these channels.
- If possible, instead of being like water bodies you can cross in all directions, they would be like tunnels with but two exits, thus linking to isolated regions or bypassing natural choke points and other features (not unlike water or lava streams in the Underground, that meander between unpassable rock).
- They could link to special pockets of roaming Shadow Demons, thus making them dangerous to travel.
- There could be a special random strategic events that close such channels or open them wide (granting bonus movement to units which may travel them). Call it Shadow Surge for example.
Yeah I know the Blocked River generator makes them too long, but that might be attackable.
Semi-passible void fields could work. But it would be a lot of work at the moment. I'm not sure we can feasibly do any better than the random scattering of diggable walls you get underground. I might be able to tweak the path generator to do something though.
Semi-passible void fields could work. But it would be a lot of work at the moment. I'm not sure we can feasibly do any better than the random scattering of diggable walls you get underground. I might be able to tweak the path generator to do something though.
I didn't see anything obviously wrong in the logs, but I think this is a missing/incorrectly sized obstacles for the new layer. The Beacon is using the WizardTower tactical map, along with the forgotten thrones and tower ruins (SR copy). All 3 sites exhibit the same behavior with the blank inaccessible spots. However, those spots can have floaters pass over them, so I'm thinking that some obstacles aren't being found or something along those lines.
Well that is annoying. Would be easier to correct if it told us what the obstacles were. I guess we'll just have to compare with surface versions of the tactical maps.
Thanks a lot TelosTelos and Rodmar for the feedback!
EDIT : I checked Warp Domain. It works fine in the Shadow layer, just like UG: no climate change but it does remove roads if any. / EDIT
The other issue you mention with +1 damage on all channel is a known display issue that can't be fixed. I note to add it to the FAQ.
I updated the list of known issues with these:
RMG - Well of Souls need to be removed from the Shadow layer, cf. the list of exclusion here: https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com...adow_Realm_Community_Expansion#Treasure_sites
- Storm Priests can't summon Wisps when immobilized (but they can still use ranged attacks), cf. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ormpriestcantsummonifimmobilized-jpeg.497648/
- Shadow Elves' Siege Workshop does not unlock Trebuchet
- Shadow Elves' Builder's Hall does not unlock Battering Ram
- the Beacon of Light's TC map on the Shadow Realm climate lacks decorations (many invisible obstacles). See https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...r_scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop-jpeg.497574/ and https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru..._scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop2-jpeg.497575/ and https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru..._scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop3-jpeg.497576/
Same for the Tundra non-walled city defense (at least one invisible obstacle, next to a wagon). Wizard's Tower Ruins also has the issue. So it might be linked to missing obstacle definitions for the Shadow layer.
- Hollow Grove does not show up on the strategic zoomed out paper map due to a lack of "paper map" icon
- Shadow Weed shoud have the same icon as Flowers of Solace on the "paper map". Glass Furnace should have a resource site icon (like Magma Forge). Celestial Pool should have a Shrine icon.
- Tame Shadow Demon displays a retaliation from the target, it shouldn't. See when using Tame Shadow Demon on an invalid target: https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/485004/aow3_SR_tameShadowDemon1.jpeg and compare to when using Befriend Animal on an invalid target: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/aow3_sr_tameshadowdemon2-jpeg.497651/
EDIT : I checked Warp Domain. It works fine in the Shadow layer, just like UG: no climate change but it does remove roads if any. / EDIT
Would you have a save game with this?
The other issue you mention with +1 damage on all channel is a known display issue that can't be fixed. I note to add it to the FAQ.
Exactly, I've worked on rapids extensively for the balance mod and they are rivers but with blocked water instead of water and it's not possible to control their length.
Exactly, this is do-able (hough not exactly as 75%) and that's what I did in the balance mod to have rapids cut by patches of normal water.
I updated the list of known issues with these:
RMG - Well of Souls need to be removed from the Shadow layer, cf. the list of exclusion here: https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com...adow_Realm_Community_Expansion#Treasure_sites
- Storm Priests can't summon Wisps when immobilized (but they can still use ranged attacks), cf. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ormpriestcantsummonifimmobilized-jpeg.497648/
- Shadow Elves' Siege Workshop does not unlock Trebuchet
- Shadow Elves' Builder's Hall does not unlock Battering Ram
- the Beacon of Light's TC map on the Shadow Realm climate lacks decorations (many invisible obstacles). See https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...r_scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop-jpeg.497574/ and https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru..._scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop2-jpeg.497575/ and https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru..._scen2_beaconlightinvisibleprop3-jpeg.497576/
Same for the Tundra non-walled city defense (at least one invisible obstacle, next to a wagon). Wizard's Tower Ruins also has the issue. So it might be linked to missing obstacle definitions for the Shadow layer.
- Hollow Grove does not show up on the strategic zoomed out paper map due to a lack of "paper map" icon
- Shadow Weed shoud have the same icon as Flowers of Solace on the "paper map". Glass Furnace should have a resource site icon (like Magma Forge). Celestial Pool should have a Shrine icon.
- Tame Shadow Demon displays a retaliation from the target, it shouldn't. See when using Tame Shadow Demon on an invalid target: https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/485004/aow3_SR_tameShadowDemon1.jpeg and compare to when using Befriend Animal on an invalid target: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/aow3_sr_tameshadowdemon2-jpeg.497651/
Last edited:
Re: Well of Souls: All Necromancer players start with a Well of Souls in their City domain range. I suspect this is a deliberate balance choice.
Do you want those removed as well from the Shadow Layer? (This will not affect their generation on Surface or Underground layers.)
Do you want those removed as well from the Shadow Layer? (This will not affect their generation on Surface or Underground layers.)