Sforza!!! - A Milan AAR

[Director]

This is no special tenderness towards the Pope, merely a 'clearing of the decks' in order to concentrate on you! Fortunately they have left it too late.

Get everything you possibly can from this peace. [Profound voice] Italy... is your destiny. [/Profound voice]

 

[coz1]

So you did acheive success inhelping the Pope. Now if only you can get some help from maybe the Turks taking it to Venice. But I agree with a previous poster - you don't need anything from Venice but victories in battle. It's the Tuscans that truly have it coming.

 

[stnylan]

So, now you have ensured Papal independence all you have to do is ensure that Tuscany will not, in future, ever act in such a manner.

Vassalisation perhaps?

 

[Secret Master]

Hmmm, I don't know whether I agree with my jingoistic colleagues. Sure, Venice and Tuscany do have it coming, but you've already taken a loan and I notice your manpower dropping steadily. Unless you already have over 50% war score, maybe its time to take a foreign policy breather and let your country rest a bit. Demand ducats, pay back your loan, and let your manpower and regiments reinforce.

I mean, sure Italy is your destiny, but destiny can wait until you've sorted these things out. Besides, once the loan is paid back, you could always spend two years building regiments with your census tax.

 

[Tem_Probe]

the problem with that option is that your allies have a tendency to peace out on you... usually, they only stay long enough to leave honorably. unless there is something in it for them...

I was not suggesting they might be useful in Italy if he does fight for ten years. Sure, after a moment, they might peace out. I was just suggesting they would be useful to buy time to peace out in Italy, if a new front should open while he's fighting Tuscany-Venice for mastery of Italy, say with France or Aragon...

 

[Rensslaer]

On for the PURPLE! And are you gonna use the quick fix mercenaries or a longer solution with trained troops?

I have a few mercenaries still -- I got rid of most of them -- but I'll generally avoid them because I like having long-term investments (regiments) that will stick around.
If I'm in an emergency, I'll try mercs, but I don't see an emergency yet...

How large is the combined Tuscan-Venetian army as compared to your own?

Well, together, thinking back, I think they were together a little smaller than my total army. But they also had the ability to build or hire more if they wanted. I could do the same, but I likely won't. I'm more worried about the dwindling size of my navy, rather than my army. I've developed a habit of building 2-3 armies at a time, only when I need them. Mass investments in armies would have to mean that I did something very wrong, and I've left myself vulnerable. Don't think this hasn't happened before in my games (read Fire Warms!!!), but I try to keep on top of what they're doing and anticipate them.

Here's hoping this doesn't turn into to your game's version of the 30 Years War (Religious conflicts, rebels, and squabbling lords. All that's missing are a rising protestant power and the Holy Roman Empire deciding that it's time to implode.)

I think that kind of religious conflict is a few decades off yet. Still got plenty of "kings-of-the-hill" who are trying to knock their opponents down a notch, though (I'm one! ). Eams -- I don't recall for sure if I've welcomed you to the story... If not, WELCOME!

I just went through the whole AAR. It's great . Time-consuming read, but well worth it. And if you don't mind me asking, how often do you update?! On a side note: Thumbs up for the Strategy Guide .

Thanks, Basharious! For all those comments -- and welcome! Thanks for reading through the whole thing from start -- it's quite long, already! I've been updating about twice a day most days, but there have been stretches where I've updated 3-4 times a day. Today it's been only once -- it mostly depends on whether my laptop has internet access (which it does not when I'm at home -- we're on DSL now, but not wireless, and dialup is too much of a hassle these days).

After the war build a good navy and invest in military technologies!

Yes, these are what I definitely need to work on. And I'd also like to start a building programme for workshops and other important city buildings. I'm missing alot of economic development without those, because I've been so focused on wars!

A humbling experience for the Tuscans (sons of the ancient Etruscan peoples!) to have to rely on the Venetians (cowardly, swamp-dwellers). This is a tricky war. Fighting on multiple fronts is never easy; and the timing is not great. Hold fast and rely on a swift (unpredictable) offense!! Oh, btw - make peace as quickly as practicable!!

Yeah -- this is the most confused of my wars, so far. Multi-front wars make me nervous, especially when either of the powers I'm fighting has some military oomph! And it worries me that I don't think my navy will hold up against both of their navies. As a coastal power, I'm nervous if I don't control the waves!

You've certainly turned the situation around with Tuscany. Again you are relying on the provinces falling before the Venetians manage to break through - again your allies ought to arrive before that happens. Your navy is making a contribution, albeit somewhat pyrrhic.

It's so far a near-run thing. I'm hoping to retain my balance as I try all these tricky moves.

With your economic position tenuous at best before the war, I'm wondering how long your multi-front campaign (really one campaign and one strategic defense) is feasible...

Well, it's not so much that my economic situation can't support a war -- it can. It's that I'm sacrificing my long-term competitiveness, over decades -- falling behind against my neighbors because I'm busy fighting wars while they're improving their economies by building province improvements, advancing in technology, etc. I'm already about 4-5 grades behind the French in military technology, and about the same number behind the top-ranked naval powers in naval tech (including Venice!). If this continues, it's possible I may start losing wars that I would otherwise expect to win.

Just read through this whole thing, great stuff. Looks like you're finally putting the Tuscans to bed, how's Burgundy doing? Haven't heard much about them lately. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Jimbo & welcome! I don't remember exactly which things happened when, but Burgundy has been quiet since their war with France, except for some low-intensity conflicts in the north -- basically against the ecclesiastical powers of the Netherlands (Utrecht disappeared) and northwest Germany (Trier, etc.).

Mass updates ftw .

And I have to compliment you, the speed of your updating is truly dizzying! Something for all us humble authAARs to aspire towards.

Yeah... I've been kind of outdoing myself! Hope no one minds, terribly! AAR-writing is part of my gameplay, anymore -- I think what's important, snap a screenshot, and write a couple lines of text before I go on with the game. Makes it easy to cut & paste for fast updates.

Just read through this AAR, amazing job so far, can't wait to see where you take Milan next (please say HRE throne)

Maximilliano! I've missed your comments -- great to have you back! Welcome! HRE throne is on my list of things to do -- just give me time.

I will go against the commonly-held idea that a quick peace is the best option. Fight for ten years if you must. Sure - that's a risk, but you've got good allies as backup worst comes to worst, and at stakes is the mastery of Italy, which you can easily obtain if you simultaneously (or sequencially) defeat both Tuscany and Venice.

Thank you for your confidence! I tend to be of the opinion that a "complete" peace is preferable to a quick peace -- if I get what I need out of it, then I'm happy. Hopefully, "survival" doesn't qualify as what I most need out of the war!

what is the order if you wish to make separate peace ? ? IIRC, you have to make peace with Venice before you make peace with Tuscany because Venice is the ally brought into the war. how much help is Brandenburg giving you in this war ? ? i know that Brandenburg would be able to offer much help against Austria, but how close is Brandenburg to Venice ? ? btw, it is really good that Austria is not your ally in this war ! ! how much help is Wurttemburg at this time. do you know how many troops they have ? ?

Actually, since Venice is more powerful than Tuscany, they become the "alliance leader" which means peace with them ends the whole war. The separate peace would be with Tuscany, now. I'm not sure Brandenburg can reach these countries by land -- they're tied up with Hungary, anyway. Wurttemburg is helping by tying up Brescia -- I think they have about 4-5,000 men, unless they're busy in Denmark with more (I don't recall at this point if they were involved in the Baltic war yet).

You don't even have to win against Venice at this stage - just survive. And Tuscany will fall.

Agreed -- I'll hold the Venetians back while I finish off Tuscany. Unless I see other opportunities...

Re Ghostwriter's comment about long wars - that's definitely true about EU2, comments I've seen in the forum suggest that approach may not work so well in EU3. So are you aiming for a long war or a short war and why?

I'll have to "go with the flow" -- see what the equilibrium of war will offer. If I can turn it into a great victory through a longer war, I will. But if it looks like I will have to settle for some victory to avoid risk of a loss, then I'll do that too.

Good to see that you managed to save the Pope, you did what ever true Catholic should do, also you got to go to war against some evil neighbours so it was a good reason. Maybe the times are turning in this war, it seems like Venice have started to understand that they can’t win and that this isn’t their war to fight. You should use this opportunity and crush Tuscany while the Venetians are resting!

This is largely role-playing, rather than self-interest. Self-interest would have dictated that I wait for Tuscany to annex Rome, and then take it all for myself! And, yes -- I think you're right about the strategic situation.

Go Milan!

Welcome, Metal! Thanks.

This is no special tenderness towards the Pope, merely a 'clearing of the decks' in order to concentrate on you! Fortunately they have left it too late. Get everything you possibly can from this peace. [Profound voice] Italy... is your destiny. [/Profound voice]

I think you are right about Venice -- they're likely preparing for a second big push against me. Italy is my destiny -- I may just take my time reaching it.

So you did acheive success inhelping the Pope. Now if only you can get some help from maybe the Turks taking it to Venice.

Bah! I would never accept help from a Musselman!!! What would the Pope say?

So, now you have ensured Papal independence all you have to do is ensure that Tuscany will not, in future, ever act in such a manner. Vassalisation perhaps?

Perhaps!

Hmmm, I don't know whether I agree with my jingoistic colleagues. Sure, Venice and Tuscany do have it coming, but you've already taken a loan and I notice your manpower dropping steadily. Unless you already have over 50% war score, maybe its time to take a foreign policy breather and let your country rest a bit. Demand ducats, pay back your loan, and let your manpower and regiments reinforce.

You may be right. But they will have to convince me -- somehow -- that I cannot have a more substantial victory.

Perseverance may pay huge dividents if you stay at war against both nations - but to what cost? And what if it doesn't pay off? Is it worth the risk? I believe that it is, even if it means that you have to succumb to a peace agreement appeasing the Venetians in order to solely focus on punishing the Tuscans... And still, there is the chance that you may manage to fight both and come out victorious! Imagine the horrified looks on the faces of the French and the Austrians! That is worth the risk!

This was one of the earlier comments, but I felt it would be best to address this at the end... In contrast to Secret Master, I think this is closer to my nature as a game-player. Through all of my games -- Victoria or EU -- I tend to be cautious to a point, but never overly so. If I think I can pull off a victory, I'll go for it. I feel this generally puts me in better control of my own situation in the long run. Once my enemies are resting from the exhaustion I've given them, THEN I can take a breather!

Thanks everyone! Looks like probably no update until morning.

Rensslaer

 

[unmerged(24320)]

Rensslaer: The battle over Ferrara continued in mid-April, 1502. Our defending force was ragged from tough battle...

does this give you enough military tradition to get a good leader ? ?

Rensslaer: ...I did catch a glimpse, also, of Brandenburg’s navy in action!..

looking forward to this report ! !

Rensslaer: ...By mid-May, we have successfully turned the Venetians back from Ferrara.

splendid ! !

Rensslaer: ...I also take note that the territory of the Papal States has all been freed by either Papal or Sicilian troops...Now Tuscany and Venice face us and our allies only.

ON ! ! ON TO VICTORY ! !

magnificent updates ! !

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Interesting war in Italy. Looks like your war effort is starting to work and the tide is turning. Strike them as hard as possible to make sure that they can't challenge you in the future.

 

[VILenin]

Venice being the alliance leader precludes them abandoning Tuscany, which is unfortunate but not overly so. They certainly seem to have passively accepted the fall of their ally by pulling back their attacks against you. After all this would be the best time to hit you, when the bulk of your armies are away sieging Tuscan cities. Just a little longer and it looks like you'll have pulled through.

Hopefully the Pope will remember who came and bailed him out. And if he doesn't then you'll have to remind him.

 

[Eams]

Hey, I've been welcomed twice to this AAR!
Having a hard time keeping track of the fans, are we, Rensslaer?

 

[Rensslaer]

Hey, I've been welcomed twice to this AAR!
Having a hard time keeping track of the fans, are we, Rensslaer?

Sorry! I am having a hard time keeping track of new folks. So many -- which is cool!

Renss

 

[Rensslaer]

Just so you don’t forget that we’re actually still at war with Hungary, too…

There are no diplomats available, else I would bid to end that war right then and there. I had squandered a diplomat on the off chance Venice might take a white peace.

So, we undertake a more practical military solution. General Guzman mounts and assault against the city of Brescia.

The assault delivers Brescia into our hands. King Filippo sends 3,000 soldiers ahead to Verona, to combat with the Venetians who had just retreated from Ferrara.

Then, after having waited to regroup and reorganize, the king then led his main force forward to Verona.

The advance force defeated the Venetians, clearing the way for the king. But the main Venetian army was also moving up. Perhaps a decisive battle was in the offing?

In preparation for that, we also sent 3 regiments north from Ferrara into the city of Venice itself. Their army would have to choose whether to defend Verona or Venice.

In the newly peaceful Rome, we received bad news. Earlier, one of our cardinals had died. Now a second one did so. We have lost the control which we had once enjoyed over the curia.

At the end of June, the 3 regiments in Venice fight off a Venetian defensive attack. They maintain hold of the lands around the city.

But Doge Marino Magno is bearing down upon Verona. Our assembled army there, under General Guzman, is now larger than what he has. But we are in enemy territory, and have not rested sufficiently. He has the edge on us in morale.

We are cheered to know of an opportunity – the walls at Pisa have been breached by sappers. King Filippo marches forth from Modena, hoping to make an assault possible. Then, once successful, he may march upon the Tuscan capital itself.

When Guzman finally met Magno in battle, he had the initial successes in his favor. But there were thousands of soldiers, and they were locked in a bloody grip for the long-term.

To the south, Tuscan Doge Biagio del Rosso had forseen the king’s strategy against him, and had arrived in Pisa at the same time as Filippo did. They, also, began a large battle. But the Milanese had the edge, here.

Finally, by the end of July, both the battles at Verona and Pisa reached a decisive finish with clear Milanese victories! The casualties in each case were staggering, and lopsided against the Venetians.

General Guzman’s troops were spent, and were in no shape to pursue for a coup de grace. But King Filippo marched after the Tuscans, intending to besiege Firenze, the Tuscan capital.

And the sieges of many cities of Tuscany and Venice – including Venice itself – were proceeding apace.

Meanwhile, Admiral Bargnani was contesting again with the Tuscan navy. He was following up on a prior Brandenburger attack upon these ships, which included a carrack.

 

[unmerged(17693)]

Wow,you are about to beat both of them! You better het control of the curia back after trhis war, you can use the advantages very well. I guess after this war there will mainly be a lot of consolidating.

 

[Eams]

1490 dead on your side, in return for 7050 poor sods on the other side. Machiavelli says you're winning...

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Hoping to recapture your carrack? You're getting the results in the battles thta yoou need, now. The venetian army in Krain is obviously waiting for the Brandenbergers and thosetroops in Friuli look rooted to the spot. The Brandenbergers are either a lot closer than they appear or they are building armies.

The military tradition you are earning will be able to pay for as good a leader as Guzman. You are really going to miss him, if you cannot.

Your strategy looks straightforward. Take province after province of Tuscany auntil you have a fairly large force in the heel of Italy. Clean out the Tuscan treasury, take all bar one province and vassilize Tuscany.Load troops onto ships and go take Dalmatia and Istria. By the time you come to sit outside the lagoon, Venice itself will be ready to fall.

 

[Lord E]

I think these battles were the decisive battles of the war, you have both of them defeated now, and they will have no chance of winning, now it is just a question of grabbing enough provinces and then forcing them to make peace on your terms. Wonderful news, victory is secured

 

[Secret Master]

Boy, you've been busy! I think coz is right. You are trying to set records for how many posts you can squeeze into a small time frame in your AAR.

Looks like the war is going well. A pity about your cardinals dying off. Still, you could always march an army to Rome and demand that you be made Papal Controller again... Wait, that wouldn't be very nice.

 

[unmerged(24320)]

Rensslaer: ...I had squandered a diplomat on the off chance Venice might take a white peace.

did you not just tell us that peace with Venice ended the war with Tuscany as well? ?

Rensslaer: ...We have lost the control which we had once enjoyed over the curia.

that bites ! ! well, at least it will return ! !

Rensslaer: ...When Guzman finally met Magno in battle, he had the initial successes in his favor...

this is ambiguous. does he refer to Guzman or Magno ? ? context indicates (to me) that Guzman is the "he". whereas IIRC, the rules of English dictate that Magno is the "he"... ::really confused::

Rensslaer: ...the battles at Verona and Pisa reached a decisive finish with clear Milanese victories! The casualties in each case were staggering, and lopsided against the Venetians.

love it ! ! :rofl:

Rensslaer: ...And the sieges of many cities of Tuscany and Venice – including Venice itself – were proceeding apace.

nice ! ! that should give them something to think about ! !

magnificent update ! !

 

[unmerged(59737)]

Venizia delenda est.

 

[stnylan]

Ahh excellent to see you working your way through Venetian manpower like that.