How does EU 3 handle attrition at sea? Did you lose many men from your army while they were on the transports? Did the navy have a problem with attrition as it sailed all the way from Milan to the coast of Holland?
Joe
Joe
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Might it not have been better to cynically accept the war and then refuse to do anythign about it?
Those seem like unacceptably high naval losses for a war that will gain you nothing.
An inexcusably long time (okay, well, just 2 days, but relative to the pace...) since feedback, so...
Feedback prior to the Mecklenburg War first. Then I'll get to the shock, surprise and laughter prompted by that!
I'm really glad to be writing again! I just need to get to a point where I have time to write more than just this -- THEN I'll be happy!
Stnylan, Fulcrumvale, Olaus Petrus, RossN, Corbett, Director, Lord E, & Storey, thank you also for your comments and readership! I really appreciate it!
Rensslaer
Feedback prior to the Mecklenburg War first. Then I'll get to the shock, surprise and laughter prompted by that!
Yup - still worried about Austria. And France, too, for that matter. The Ottomans can't reach me yet.fj44 said:Your biggest threat, other than a vengeful France, is Austria. Though Austria hasn't picked up Bohemia or Hungary, they are still quite capable of hurting any nation in the game. France is scary in this game, so don't think that your gains will weaken them much.
Good to see you writing again, my friend.
I'm really glad to be writing again! I just need to get to a point where I have time to write more than just this -- THEN I'll be happy!
Austria could turn on me at any moment, but for whatever reason, they've remained almost passive. Attention is directed elsewhere, I think.canadiancreed said:
As you will see in coming updates, they are eating the Balkans alive! I think it's only a matter of time before I must face them. Decades, still... I hope.Mike von Bek said:
Yeah... If your question wasn't answered previously, Milan absorbed the Mediterranean portion of Genoa not long after the start of the 1453 game (1460s, probably -- before I began this game). But their Black Sea possessions remained independent.coz1 said:
Thanks! Great to have you along.Tem_Probe said:Very nice AAR. You've got me breathless with your updates
I'm really happy to see your interest in what's going on around the world, and in long-term perspectives, because those are the things that often fascinate me most. I have been looking for allies to marshal against the Ottomans, but unfortunately, anyone in position to help is either generally hostile toward me, is too small to help, or is a Muslim power which it's difficult to get close to. I generally see those governments as targets, rather than allies, anyway.Topher said:
(he's referring to my having to disband troops who had no access home) -- Yeah, I can imagine Phargle would have a field day with that!Snake IV said:Is it just me or do that sound like something that could be in Knud Knýtling?
I can imagine you're right... I wonder if it's because I started in 1473, instead of 1453. In fact, since I figured other betas would be mostly starting in 1453, I've always started my games at other times (mostly in the 1460s or 1470s, but also 1560s, 1640s, 1780s, etc. -- kind of fun!). I wonder if there's something inherent in the later start times that makes Burgundy less aggressive, or perhaps just more held in check.Walter Model said:
No... But just wait!Chief Ragusa said:
Billy Bob, great to see you! And thanks! Aragon has not necessarily been my friend, but they've stayed out of the way. I don't (yet) fear them.billy bob said:
Stnylan, Fulcrumvale, Olaus Petrus, RossN, Corbett, Director, Lord E, & Storey, thank you also for your comments and readership! I really appreciate it!
Rensslaer
In April, Admiral Bargnani successfully landed his mercenary regiments in Bremen, and they began a siege.
But as soon as that task was done, he turned to another important duty – seeking out Admiral Seeland, and dealing with him. Seeland continued to chase the tattered squadron of, first 4, then 2 Milanese carracks. They suffered the ignominy of being pursued, partly, by one of their own carracks (which, when captured, became the largest ship in Mecklenburg’s navy!).
Remarkably, when Bargnani did, finally, encounter part of Seeland’s fleet, it was a lone ship – the Teodolinda! – which had been separated and dispatched on patrol duty to keep the Milanese ships from escaping back toward home. Seeland’s remaining ships arrived just after, and the two damaged Milanese carracks were right behind him!
Suddenly, Seeland found himself in combat with two separate divisions of the Milanese navy, led by Admiral Bargnani, whose combined forces outnumbered and outclassed Seeland. To make things worse for Mecklenburg, Bargnani held the weather gauge.
The most heavily damaged of Bargnani’s carracks was lost, but they sunk a barque (previously Seeland’s flagship) and a cog. Unfortunately, Bargnani’s hopes of recapturing either of the carracks were foiled. Seeland escaped.
Meanwhile, confident of regional superiority (Brandenburger troops lay to the east, and a small detachment of bloodied Mecklenburgers to the west), General Paradisi ordered an assault. He hoped that Milanese parity in military technology (as earlier, with the Swiss) would enable a successful assault. He wished to bring things to conclusion as quickly as possible.
While his assault did not quickly breach the walls, its initial stage did gravely wound the defending forces (Mecklenburg lost about 350 defenders, against 1,000 lost by Milan – relatively light for an assault). Paradisi intended to call his troops back, but word came from the walls that the defenders might be about to break!
Paradisi pressed his mercenaries forward, despite grievous casualties. He knew that these paid soldiers were not the hardiest of souls, but that they might persevere out of hope for victory – and the spoils which would thereby come.
Ultimately, Bremen fell. The story of northern Germany, over the past 20 years, had been one of two countries – Brandenburg and Mecklenburg. Brandenburg had been the more successful, having annexed parts of several neighboring countries. But Mecklenburg had been like a smaller imitator, enabled by her rich trading center at Lubeck and sole access to the sea, earning the jealousy of landlocked Brandenburg.
Because of Paradisi’s boldness, and his knowledge of how to drive his mercenaries, it was Milan, and not Brandenburg, that became the first country to seize one of powerful Mecklenburg’s cities.
And, also remarkably, it was Paradisi’s victory on land that ultimately saved some of the hard-worn ships of Admiral Bargnani’s fleet, for they would otherwise have had no friendly ports in which to find refuge, and at least one of them would never have made it home, in its damaged and compromised position.
Your fleet has suffered some rather heavy casualties during this war, although you have also achieved naval victories. Hopefully Italian docks are soon enough building replacements.
Impressive siege work and a nice partial revenge on their fleet. Now a human Mecklenberg would be minting like mad, trying to raise troops to launch a counter-attack and afford a spy to try to change the allegiance of those mercenaries. I await with baited breath the Mecklenberg response.
Do mercenaries replenish their ranks even when in the field?
Do mercenaries replenish their ranks even when in the field?
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The fleet has suffered a lot, so good to see that you could get them into harbour to rest and re-supply. Still they have done very well I think, and now the mercenaries have secured you a province on land also, so the war is going very fine. Press forward and force them to make peace
Oldenburg appears to be the next logical target.
A shame Brandenberg appears likely to grab a few provinces. Mecklemberg would be a nice place to vassalise.
A shame Brandenberg appears likely to grab a few provinces. Mecklemberg would be a nice place to vassalise.
coz1 said:
That's what I'm wondering. Taking land would create interesting possibilities.
Joe
/crawls out of a dark hole.
What on earth are you doing in Mecklenburg when you could be on vacation in the wineyards of Italy?
/back to lurking.
What on earth are you doing in Mecklenburg when you could be on vacation in the wineyards of Italy?
/back to lurking.
All in due time... Yes, I'm hoping my alliance with Brandenburg is worth the trouble I'm going to. I felt it would be. I'll let you judge for yourself...Chief Ragusa said:
I would have done this, but I actually wanted to test a couple of things -- 1) how good my navy's "sea legs" are (outside of the Med), and 2) see how I would do against a power whose land tech was slightly better than mine in a situation where they couldn't get to me to do damage at home, and 3) I didn't want Mecklenburg to somehow beat Brandenburg badly (in retrospect, not a chance, but I wasn't sure...)Olaus Petrus said:
Technomucio, thank you very much! Welcome -- it's great to have you along. From Milan, even!Technomucio said:Very nice AAR , i'm reading it because i'm playing with Milano too and i like your style of playing and writing.
I must confess that i'm a newbie and i'm playing my first game with EU3 , but you're teach me something new every day
I'm quite in the same situation against tuscany but in my game they have a lot of defensive mens in Florence (sometingh like 10000 , and it's too hard for me), but i'm in 1530. By the way i think you're going very well and i'll take a look at your great AAR , go Milano! P.S. I have the same problems with trade
If you're learning something every day, then I'm doing my job -- this is kind of an extension of the Strategy Guide (even though in the Guide I would probably have advised against this sort of adventurism, and taken Olaus Petrus' and Stnylan's recommendations! ).That was probably my main concern, though I was keeping "the eye of the hawk" on my fleet, hoping it wouldn't get too battered. Instead, I got "trapped" in combat way up north. I didn't have enough morale after the first defeat to stand long enough to choose my line of retreat, so Seeland kept pushing me further into the Baltic. Bremen saved my bacon, once I was able to get back there (once Seeland had finally gotten tired and gone home)!coz1 said:
Again -- good cautionary advice. I was mindful of the risks I was taking, but decided the information and experience I would gather would help more than the potential losses hurt. In retrospect, I'm not sure they did!Lord E said:
Attrition (realistically) can come up suddenly and drastically. Usually, you'll start to see some attrition in small amounts, but then you'll get hit badly enough that you start worrying for the fate of your ships. These things improve (the chances of attrition) as you gain Naval Tech. You also don't get attrition in home waters (or where you control an enemy port).Storey said:
Possibly.stnylan said:
Indeed, they are. I had very high confidence that my 5 carracks would be more than a match for their barques and galleys. But the fact that my first fleet met an enemy admiral before my admiral could arrive on scene probably made the difference, no matter how badly outguned they were.Fulcrumvale said:
Replacements are always on the way. Alas, replacement carracks take a long time to build, and they were not ready by the time I needed them again. But I'm getting ahead of myself!Olaus Petrus said:
Thank you! I'm not sure about mercs who are separated by geography/water. The war was over before I could really notice a difference.Chief Ragusa said:
We shall see...coz1 said:
As this was a war far from home, I didn't really want to entangle myself so far as to take enough territory to vassalize. I'm also not sure what I'd do with a vassal way up there... They'd probably just persist in getting me in trouble!stnylan said:
I'm sure it depends on a lot of things. In the beta-AAR which preceded this, I built half my navy by capturing ships! I'm not sure if the modifiers have changed, or just my luck!billy bob said:
Welcome, Mr. Me! Glad to have you along.Mr Me said:
Thanks, everybody! I'll try to get another update up very soon.
Rensslaer
As Admiral Bargnani rested and refitted his warships in Bremen harbor, General Paradisi did the same with his own troops. Then, Mecklenburg tentatively tested the tranquility of occupied Bremen, attacking in June.
Having turned back this effort, General Paradisi decides to pursue the Mecklenburgers into Oldenburg, and begin a siege there.
In July, 1494, aware that Admiral Seeland had been under attack also by Austrian ships, Admiral Bargnani sortied with a galley and the three most ready of his remaining carracks. It was his intent to recapture his lost carracks from Seeland.
In August, he finds Seeland, who has the two carracks with him, and is at a distinct disadvantage.
Bargnani failed to recapture his ships, but was able to sink one of them, and each side lost a galley to the seas. Seeland slunk home, defeated. The Milanese lurk outside the harbor, ensuring no return to the seas.
On Christmas Day, 1493, Oldenburg falls. Mecklenburger soldiers are nearby, but too weak to contest Milanese control. Meanwhile, Brandenburg has captured two provinces. It was time to make peace.
But peace was more easily suggested than achieved, and many months stretched on before Mecklenburg would agree to a peace. Their final capitulation was only achieved when the Austrians captured Munster (which Mecklenburg annexed even as they were being eaten alive by Milan and Brandenburg).
In the final deal, Mecklenburg ceded their old capital of Mecklenburg to Brandenburg. Milan claimed the rich city state of Bremen.
The Austrians were none too happy that, having prompted the peace, they got no share of it! King Lodovico was unable to express the totality of his embarrassment over the issue, so he sent a minor functionary to do it for him.
you own bremen?
Either you'll become a multicultural melting pot, or be torn apart by different cultures.
Either you'll become a multicultural melting pot, or be torn apart by different cultures.
My relations with Austria are about -160. Naturally, I'm not very concerned about how they feel!Corbett said:
Well, I'm not "wedded" to Bremen. If it becomes a problem, I could always release them as a vassal.HoldFast said:you own bremen? Either you'll become a multicultural melting pot, or be torn apart by different cultures.
billy bob said:
Indeed, it was not an "inspired strategic" choice.Deaghaidh said:
I may live to regret it, but I'm going to try it out for a bit.For the most part, I took Bremen for 2 reasons -- 1) I didn't want to have lost 2 carracks for nothing, and 2) I figured Bremen would be a relatively rich province to have, even though the income would be significantly reduced because of cultural and geographic separation.
My Badboy, by the way, has remained pretty small. It's hovering around 5 points at this time, which rates at "slightly tarnished".
Another brief update coming up within the hour....
Thanks!
Rensslaer