Several issues or "why the demo convinced me to not buy the game"

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fafinir

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I've played most of recent paradox games (CK2 a lot, Victoria 2, EU3 a lot, EU2 etc...) and I was happy to see EUIV, was wondering about pre-ordering it and decided to try the demo.

And there's many things I really don't like and actually makes me want to play the OTHER games and not EUIV. Let's start:
> The new tech system. It seems "nice" to let you choose between techs and ideas, with points being used for many, many, many others things (especially adm points) and having a good tech means sacrifices... except the result is somehow stupid. A "trade" or "colonist" nation will have the worse boat because they need to spend their diplomatic points into ideas. Military nations will have the worse troops but strangely good boats and good adm... etc. This make no senses.

> Rulers are completly unbalanced. You can do NOTHING to act on their stats but they are more important than anything else in the game. This is only luck. If you get a 5 - 5 - 6 rulers you will turn into a powerful nations, you have a 0 - 1 - 0, you will have to wait DECADES before doing something. Advisors can only give you +3. Rulers should be less important OR the player should have some way to impact on them.

> Same thing with events. They're not related AT all with your way to play the game. At least in CK2, events could be deal differently according to your ruler your carefuly builded during the game, in EUIV you're just a spectator of random things affecting your nation. You can have a "good administration" spawning of nowhere and suddenly a "bad administration". Yeah for logic !

> Population. Sorry but it's stupid to see some random town in Africa or some half-baked colony having exactly the same stats as an european cities. Yes there's a base income but the difference isn't really clear. Maybe it's unfair but the reality is: Some cities like Paris or London should be more powerful than entire unpopulated empire. It's especialy stupid for colonies because as soon as they reach 1000 colons, they are now fully grown, case closed... They also automaticaly convert local populations and impose culture. The problem is: you can have a "Brazil empire" in 1550 being more powerful than most european countries...

> Talking about culture, you really think you can change a culture in 40 months ? Seriously ? Even with modern medias and massive propaganda you couldn't convince a french guy he's german or something. I heard some talking about "aristocratic culture" then if it's the case, it's REALLY not accurate (and it sounds like an excuse). No, culture shouldn't be that easy to change, on the contrary it should be the more "set in stone" thing, really hard to change like in CK2.

> Talking about set in stone, why trade nodes can't evolve ? Why Bordeaux will ALWAYS be the trade center for France for 400 years and why some hispanic cities will ALWAYS have to be include in this node ? It's really cheap from Paradox to not have included the EU3 system, way more dynamic, probably to sell it to us again in a future DLC.

> And that's my last point (but i'm sure we can find many others), the DLC. I've been a good consumer with CK2 and bought most of the DLC but now i'm just tired. It's too expensive, it's too much for too little and it gives you the impression you're gonna buy an unfinished game (and unfinished on purpose) just so the devs can do extra bucks. It shouldn't work like that. They want more money ? They do a better game and sell more copies, they don't milk the few loyals gamer they have until, like me, they quit.
 

Templaric-

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The only one I really see being a huge deal is the 2nd criticism, but it's definitely not a gamebreaker for me. Everything else is either a non-issue or a minor-issue.
 

Lordrac

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Hmm I agree with you on some parts. I will still be buying the game though. The DLCs are a bit outrageous however, why do I have to pay extra for muslim event pictures which I should get in the base game? Then again, it's worth it for me to have these extra features, but dlc right on release day? >.<
 

Lessing

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I disagree with almost everything, and the rest I don't care for. Only exception: ruler stats are massively random and have this a too big random effect.
 

Thanik

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1. This make game more balanced . No longer France/England with huge manpower/ships, best technology and ideas. No longer Spain conquering Aztec + Incas and conquering all world in 10 years:)
2. Many events/decisions are triggered by good skill of monarch, stability, ideas and other things. So...

And about your overall opinion - you will buy EU 4 , if Devs change all things to EU 3:>?
 

KaiserJohanHome

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yeah the first point makes the game rather wierd. Playing portual, I have the most modern army in the world by far, simply because I chose admin/diplo ideas to focus on that and nothing else to spend military points on. I dosn't make sense.

EDIT: portugal, not venice
 

fafinir

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They look really random. Let's take Charles VIII de Valois, King of France, with 6 military power (in reality he lost territories and gain none, he wasn't exactly a good warrior or strategist) and 2 diplomatic power (in reality he won Britanny by a diplomatic marriage).
 

americanu197

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some good points up there and after playing the demo im pretty disappointed it doesnt look fun at all and the new systems feel very gamey.... i was hoping to waste many hours on this game but right now i doubt it but then again im reserving judgement until i get my hands on the full game

oh yeah and overextension i got my country practically broken and in a civil war for three uncored provinces not cool at all but like i said lets see how the full game will feel
 

grommile

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No, I will by EUIV when devs will sell a complete game and it's not the case.
The demo looks like a demo of a complete game to me.

Or is that a dog-whistle for "down with day one DLC"?
 

Shiranui

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I disagree with almost everything, and the rest I don't care for. Only exception: ruler stats are massively random and have this a too big random effect.

Yeah. I disagree with almost everything (the culture changing is a good point) too...
But Monarch Points are not completely random, you can influence it with advisers (+3 is more significant than you think) and you can try to kill your heir if he sucks by making him lead an army to its death. Personally I like the MP system, I thought it was more unrealistic to have a thriving empire while also having a mentally retarded ruler.
Overall, EU4 is just such a huge improvement over EU3, especially the trade system.
 

Dr. Dan

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I've played most of recent paradox games (CK2 a lot, Victoria 2, EU3 a lot, EU2 etc...) and I was happy to see EUIV, was wondering about pre-ordering it and decided to try the demo.

And there's many things I really don't like and actually makes me want to play the OTHER games and not EUIV. Let's start:
> The new tech system. It seems "nice" to let you choose between techs and ideas, with points being used for many, many, many others things (especially adm points) and having a good tech means sacrifices... except the result is somehow stupid. A "trade" or "colonist" nation will have the worse boat because they need to spend their diplomatic points into ideas. Military nations will have the worse troops but strangely good boats and good adm... etc. This make no senses.

A military nation should be conquering - probably using Diplo ideas (reduction in coring costs), admin for coring, and mil for tech. You'll have the best military techs and lag in the other 2, due to other costs. Once you've got a solid base, you can hire good advisers to get both mil tech and mil ideas if you desire.

> Rulers are completly unbalanced. You can do NOTHING to act on their stats but they are more important than anything else in the game. This is only luck. If you get a 5 - 5 - 6 rulers you will turn into a powerful nations, you have a 0 - 1 - 0, you will have to wait DECADES before doing something. Advisors can only give you +3. Rulers should be less important OR the player should have some way to impact on them.

The most important part of the game is your ability to accomplish your goals, which can be hindered or helped by rulers. They are not the end-all, be-all. You do not have to wait decades, as you state, to do anything with a 0-1-0 ruler. In fact, I would only say that if this happened at the very beginning of the game should an experienced player have that much trouble. It's your ability, not your ruler's that determines how well you do. It is merely one of the myriad of factors that contribute to how easily you can accomplish them.

> Same thing with events. They're not related AT all with your way to play the game. At least in CK2, events could be deal differently according to your ruler your carefuly builded during the game, in EUIV you're just a spectator of random things affecting your nation. You can have a "good administration" spawning of nowhere and suddenly a "bad administration". Yeah for logic !

The events trigger based on modifiers in your empire. Ie, a nation with the naval ideas will get naval missions. It's not entirely random. Again, an experienced player knows how to handle these. This is part of the reward of learning a difficult game.

> Population. Sorry but it's stupid to see some random town in Africa or some half-baked colony having exactly the same stats as an european cities. Yes there's a base income but the difference isn't really clear. Maybe it's unfair but the reality is: Some cities like Paris or London should be more powerful than entire unpopulated empire. It's especialy stupid for colonies because as soon as they reach 1000 colons, they are now fully grown, case closed... They also automaticaly convert local populations and impose culture. The problem is: you can have a "Brazil empire" in 1550 being more powerful than most european countries...

Demo goes to 1528; how would you know? Furthermore, there's a severe tax reduction on overseas empires, unless you're suggesting you do something gamey like move your capital in Portugal there. Either way, you should be fabulously wealthy from your colonial empires - that's kind of the point.

> Talking about culture, you really think you can change a culture in 40 months ? Seriously ? Even with modern medias and massive propaganda you couldn't convince a french guy he's german or something. I heard some talking about "aristocratic culture" then if it's the case, it's REALLY not accurate (and it sounds like an excuse). No, culture shouldn't be that easy to change, on the contrary it should be the more "set in stone" thing, really hard to change like in CK2.

Maybe, but it's not something I really care about. Culture conversions are just not worth the investment.

> Talking about set in stone, why trade nodes can't evolve ? Why Bordeaux will ALWAYS be the trade center for France for 400 years and why some hispanic cities will ALWAYS have to be include in this node ? It's really cheap from Paradox to not have included the EU3 system, way more dynamic, probably to sell it to us again in a future DLC.

EU3 system is not as dynamic lol. This is just blasphemy. Neither system requires much thought.

> And that's my last point (but i'm sure we can find many others), the DLC. I've been a good consumer with CK2 and bought most of the DLC but now i'm just tired. It's too expensive, it's too much for too little and it gives you the impression you're gonna buy an unfinished game (and unfinished on purpose) just so the devs can do extra bucks. It shouldn't work like that. They want more money ? They do a better game and sell more copies, they don't milk the few loyals gamer they have until, like me, they quit.

You don't have to purchase DLC the day it comes out. It can be -75% cost at times. It really depends on what you value; I tend to think the DLC is worth it when it's on sale.

Edit: I will agree that the relationship with ideas/techs is a little off, but I believe it will be fixed in the future. If it were me, I might add a fourth point system which could be spent on any category (mil/dip/adm), which would allow a country to specialize a bit more. (Or perhaps some sort of exchange rate between points?)
 
Last edited:

maxirage

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These are notable issues but this still leaves the game much ahead of EU3, so it's worth playing. The biggest one is the awkward relationship between ideas and tech, as mentioned, but I think they'll do something about that in future patches. As well, the huge effect of ruler points introduces randomness in the game, even though I thought EU4 tried to tone down the randomness from EU3. Having possibly double admin gains for several decades due to a single dice roll which is completely out of player control is a bit much, no matter how you look at it.

The rest of the issues seem insignificant.
 

Westysnipes

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They look really random. Let's take Charles VIII de Valois, King of France, with 6 military power (in reality he lost territories and gain none, he wasn't exactly a good warrior or strategist) and 2 diplomatic power (in reality he won Britanny by a diplomatic marriage).

He conquered Italy for a short time before being forced out. And he concentrated building up a large army. According to Wikipedia.