Seriously PDX... Fix your AI Logic across the board..

[Kinkness]

There are serious issues which this thread addresses. They need to be fixed or at least should allow modders to fix it. Also I think modders especially when they fix essential things like that, should be entitled to earn money in some way

I'd be careful saying that stuff.. That's the kind of mentality that allowed Bethesda to nearly milk money for doing literally nothing off of modders hard work fixing their busted ass games. Remember that fiasco?

Now if a modder puts up a patreon, I'm all for dishing out some money to them for a job well done. Not something everyone can do, (and not something EVERY modder deserves.. going in and adjusting a few numbers does not entitle you to anything imo even if it does fix a huge annoyance).

 

[Stars_and_Bars]

I don't care if you post pone your badly needed upcoming Diplomacy/Federation update for a whole year to make this happen. (Lets be honest, its the only next big update that could possibly happen, as its the last thing in Stellaris that feels absolutely.. non existant compared to everything else).

But really.. Your bare bones, basic, and non sensical AI worked for the super simplistic "place a building on a tile gg forget everything".. Even then it could barely function properly.... but now its damn near completely broken all over the place....
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Planets:
- AI building police stations, and precincts and stuff up the yazoo..

(Alpha) - AI doubling down on their need to cheat with free resources because they are all working in massive negative incomes for everything. (Which really makes the ENTIRE game feel cheap and cheesy when you know the AI is literally getting so many free hand outs cuz of how incompetent it is.. I can't push to break an enemies economy, or make it fall from within cuz the game will just give it free massive handouts). This becomes apparent when you vassalize a small nation only to have your +30 energy, and +20 minerals drop into the -50's for both.. For a nation that's only 1/4th your size, and thats AFTER you destroy the space stations, and ships to bring everything within your limits, and you're still royally fucked for HOURS after trying to fix the broken AI economy working on massive negatives...

Sectors:
(Beta) - My god are sectors horrendous... 9/10 times they wont build anything...

(Alpha) - If they do build something they're using the same broken a$$ AI logic that I explained above... building police stations, and all types of non sensical crap... I've seen the sector AI when it did actually decide to do something, thought "gee we're getting +50 food and -30 minerals... lets build more farms!"..... /facepalm

(Alpha) - 9/10 times though.... they don't do crap even on a basic level.. they don't shut down or prioritize jobs based on how the economy is.. They don't build appropriate robots, or grow appropriate pops for what is needed...

(Alpha) (Beta) - I need to micro manage EVERYTHING... which is 10x more micro managing than it used to be... Not only do I need to choose what building to build, I also need to keep an eye on housing, sectors, trade, fluctuating economy due to people migrating and straight up saying "i'm out of this b#$@" and leaving. I need to adjust and micro manage shutting down certain jobs to force pops into others... the list goes on....

- Multiplayer is... thrown out the window for me and my friends, because we need to pause, or slow down the game so often now for a game that already took a hella long time to complete, because we need to constantly baby sit 30 planets...

Fleets:

Throwing this in here, because fleets need to be seriously re worked logic wise as well.. Right now they're just "Derrr lets ram ourselves straight into the brick wall in front of us repeatedly until we gotta retreat!" I like the fact the fleets and admirals are supposed to feel like their own entity making decisions.. But right now its like they are rogues doing their own thing..

I need ways to tell my 2 fleets to pull back.. no not retreat 9 systems away.. no.. to PULL BACK.. disengage.. re group...

I need the enemy AI to do the same..

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As someone wrote in another post, which is exactly how I feel:



From my understanding this update was supposed to bring more options, but less micro (or at least less clicking required).. it failed horribly on the less micro and less clicking because of how broken and stupid the AI is.. I no longer need to just manage a handful of planets.. I now need to manage ALL of them.. The sector AI used to.. albeit not very well, it DID function, and it was something I could allow to leave to its own accord and it wouldn't royally screw me hardcore. Now it does... or it doesn't do anything.. Either it screws me royally on stupid buildings, or it literally doesn't do jack..

Fix the AI... because as of right now.. its so dreadfully backwards, it's sucking all the fun out of this amazing update..

It seems to be fact, based off of several factors:

(Alpha) 1) Vast majority of what you said has nothing to do with the post. I never once really mentioned anything about economy, or the new system of upgrading planets apart from saying the AI is too stupid to do it correctly. Which it is. That was 95% of your post is about that, and how I'm stupid for not knowing how to do it (Even though I do, and has nothing to do with what I wrote).

(Beta) 2) The small bit that is relevant which is about me giving control to the AI through the sectors, or trying too and me being stupid for doing it, is both insulting, and hilariously narrow minded and blind on your part for a myriad of reasons.

a) I'm not talking about only sector AI. I'm talking about the AI in general throughout the whole game, controlling all the other AI factions.. They are stupidly broken, and non functional on so many levels..

b) Why shouldn't I be able to give control to a sector if I wanted too, and why shouldn't I have an AI that is at least somewhat competent enough to not drive it into the ground? There isn't, and no it doesn't mean I don't know how to deal, or build up the economy...

I really need nothing more to know you either A) didn't read, or B) had a complete mental break down and lost all reading comprehension and coherent thinking processes.

Then again there is an option C which I ignore when I talk to people, and that is just that you're an utter moron, but I'd rather not think that, and so the best case scenario is that you simply didn't read... I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I've labelled each part of your quotes for convenience's sake.
(Alpha) I labelled every part in your first post which mentions resources, buildings, etc. everything that has to do with the economy.
(Beta) I labelled every time you mentioned how the ai can't handle sectors, or you need to micromanage everything
So I don't really understand why you're lying. You clearly did mention the economy and the sector ai which I addressed in my post here. You're also really insulting for some reason. but I assume that's because I said you were dumb to trust the AI, so that's understandable.

The AI is garbage and you were dumb to give ai control of anything. Micromanaging your economy is easy. You just need to realize that you need SUSTAINABLE growth, not mindlessly upgrading or building stuff. The economy is like a pyramid. You need enough minerals to make alloys and consumer goods. You need enough consumer goods to make everything else. The point is, that you need MORE (absolute not Net) mineral production than you need consumer goods production or Alloy production. You need more Consumer good production than you need those special resource production. The economy is a pyramid that has to be built from the bottom up. Food is an upkeep cost, while energy is currency.

 

[Leylos]

Something I'm really hoping they will fix soon is the pathfinding for endgame crisis construction ships.

There is absolutely no logical pattern behind it. They will build a starbase on one side of their territory to then build a starbase all the way on the other side of the territory. They present absolutely 0 threat no matter how much you buff their ships simply because they take centuries to expand.

 

[exi123]

There are more painful things too see when playing with this "AI" in 2.2...

- Machine empires without bio-pops are able to build farming districts. I know there is a bio reactor, but srsly: Dont be so complex. Deactivate farming districts and the hydro-building thing. Before 2.2 this kind of machines couldnt build farms....
- "AI" is recrutung douzens of armies which disappear somewhere. It queues them up and is building building... What a waste of resources in their poor economy...
- This empire i am watching doesnt expand. Where the bio-Ai's are settling on their second or third planet, this machine empire has one colony: their capital.

....

 

[pmchem]

What's amazing is that, even after the most obvious quickly found things are fixed in 2.2 (well, if they are fixed), what else will be revealed? What other terrible game-breaking AI problems are lurking underneath? We'll be posting about this for months.

 

[Anemetius]

I really belive Stellaris AI is the worst of all Paradox games and one of the worst in the strategy games market. Even GC 2 had better AI.

 

[LiberiusX]

I really belive Stellaris AI is the worst of all Paradox games and one of the worst in the strategy games market. Even GC 2 had better AI.

Please tell me this is sarcasm...

If not, it’s comments like these that indicate the thread has outlived its usefulness.

 

[Kombatdoctr]

Please tell me this is sarcasm...

If not, it’s comments like these that indicate the thread has outlived its usefulness.

I don't know about all strategy games, but compared to other Paradox games Stellaris' AI is hands down the worst. EU4/CK2 AI is so much better it's not even funny.

 

[Kinkness]

Please tell me this is sarcasm...

If not, it’s comments like these that indicate the thread has outlived its usefulness.

Explain where he was wrong? GC2's AI was better... sure it was brain dead stupid, but that's still a step above of Stellaris's AI that can't even make basic mechanics function...

Hell, even the attrocious AI of Civilization VI with it hating you one moment, and loving you the next, can create a complex economy of military, population, happiness, culture, etc. and make it function without abhorrent amounts of free boosts up the ass to make it work..

Arguably should be even harder than stellaris's because the limitations of resources is far more strict in Civilization games

 

[Jorrhast]

What's amazing is that, even after the most obvious quickly found things are fixed in 2.2 (well, if they are fixed), what else will be revealed? What other terrible game-breaking AI problems are lurking underneath? We'll be posting about this for months.

as if there was a time Stellaris AI didn't have problems

 

[Sarno]

as if there was a time Stellaris AI didn't have problems

1.8? Where normal, non-advanced AI empire was actually capable of going superior when compared to yours without having resources showed up their arse?
I also clearly remember several ASpecs videos, where even he with his cheesy strats got sometimes surprised or even owned by the AI. Has not happened ever since 2.0 hit.

 

[JJming]

Totally agree, its been three years now the AI is still broken as hell.

 

[Jorrhast]

1.8? Where normal, non-advanced AI empire was actually capable of going superior when compared to yours without having resources showed up their arse?

You mean on normal difficulty? Never had any problems with normal AIs in 1.x, even with Glavius mod. GA is another matter but even then you had to be very unlucky, like boxed between Zerg and space Nazis.

 

[Wolfgang I]

You mean on normal difficulty? Never had any problems with normal AIs in 1.x, even with Glavius mod. GA is another matter but even then you had to be very unlucky, like boxed between Zerg and space Nazis.

Well at least you could get unlucky on the old insane difficulty. After 2.0 starting close to zergs and space nazis was a good thing because of the free acess to total war.

 

[exi123]

Mmmmmhhhhh... You know what? I let my pc run overnight with Stellaris running and you wont believe what happened. One of them opened the L-Gate and THE WHOLE GALAXY GOT CRUSHED. I saw that before i got to bed and thought: This will be funny... *cough*. The flleets from the L-Cluster were about 30k strength when opened and we all know they are not that hard to beat with similar strengths. The "AI" had 6k fleetpower at this point. This is a joke...

 

[Sarno]

You mean on normal difficulty? Never had any problems with normal AIs in 1.x, even with Glavius mod. GA is another matter but even then you had to be very unlucky, like boxed between Zerg and space Nazis.

Played on hard with aggressivity set to max mostly. Going 1v1 was generaly OK, however going 1vFed was really hell in some situations. I remember I had at least one restart around 1.8 when an enemy federation rolled over my militant spiritualists.

Currently, you can one-man the whole galaxy without any issues.

 

[Person012345]

Played on hard with aggressivity set to max mostly. Going 1v1 was generaly OK, however going 1vFed was really hell in some situations. I remember I had at least one restart around 1.8 when an enemy federation rolled over my militant spiritualists.

Currently, you can one-man the whole galaxy without any issues.

I am not a power player, I don't minmax I just do things that make sense to me in the moment. But playing unmodded in my last game, I could probably have solo'd the entire rest of he galaxy at the same time single handedly (aside from fallen empires at the time). That's how bad the AI is right now. It can't do anything, it's DoA. It might as well not be there.

 

[pmchem]

Bad AI also makes federations useless, too. Who would want them as a partner?

 

[THIEFs]

Ai should be able to make economy work without interstellar market.... market is simply a fake cheat, besides it makes no logical sense to have unlimited resource source in the universe. It would be far better if it was real market where AI's and Players would simply Bid/auto trade excess resources for the lacking resources.. for example I should be able to set that I'm offering on market 30 Energy/month to the market, and if demand up to 40 minerals/month...

The cost of resources could then depend on real supply & demand... for example is excess of food in the market, and there is shortage of energy, then I might opt to focus on energy production and less on food, since it might be cheaper to buy food than grow myself.

There needs to be game setting to play without global market... right now AI feels like cheat.

 

[pmchem]

Using the market is a good thing. Cheating via free resources is not. It's good if the AI uses the same features the player uses.

That said, 2.2.2 is still a really bad state of the AI and there are NO AI FIXES in first beta for 2.2.3. Bad!