Seriously Paradox

[unmerged(1823)]

Honestly, I don't think it's fully set in at PI just how badly they've screwed themselves with EU3 and HOI3. Many of their loyal customers are gone and will never pay $50 for their games again. I'll only pay 1/5th that price out of the bargain bin once the game is finally decent. And I'm not the only one...

What was wrong with EU3 at release? It was bugfree and balanced. I know some people did not like that it wasn't EU 2.5, but there was

Considering the amount of complaints at the Eu2, HoI1, Victoria1, Armageddon and Hoi3 releases about buggy releases and for long times, I can understand some getting upset..

but eu3 or rome????

 

[unmerged(27471)]

What was wrong with EU3 at release? It was bugfree and balanced. I know some people did not like that it wasn't EU 2.5, but there was

Considering the amount of complaints at the Eu2, HoI1, Victoria1, Armageddon and Hoi3 releases about buggy releases and for long times, I can understand some getting upset..

but eu3 or rome????

EUIII was playable at release, but was simply not fun. The last two patches have made it into an absolutely killer game, but I'm afraid it was not that enjoyable when released. Too much nonsense going on in the background that destroyed the flavor for me...

 

[unmerged(27471)]

What was wrong with EU3 at release? It was bugfree and balanced. I know some people did not like that it wasn't EU 2.5, but there was

Considering the amount of complaints at the Eu2, HoI1, Victoria1, Armageddon and Hoi3 releases about buggy releases and for long times, I can understand some getting upset..

but eu3 or rome????

It must be admitted that people will complain about anything (I LOVED Vicky 1), but I do hope there is something of a lesson being taken at Paradox over HOI3. I've spent well over $400 on Paradox games and upgrades and do not consider any of that to be wasted money...even HOI3, as I'm sure the expansion will set things aright.

However, I simply do not approve of releasing broken games. It's a terrible business model that hurts what should a be a stellar brand reputation.

 

[jam3]

EU3 was definetly not as buggy as the rest but Parmenidies is right it just simply wasn't fun or balanced at release. I conquered most of Europe on my first game without even trying and trade was kinda a nightmare.

Thats something else your losing out on with these buggy releases, theres obviously not alot of playtesting/balancing going on cause the majority of time is spent in fixing actual bugs.


I think EU3 after all the expansions and patches is probably the best title you have out there both in terms of stability and gameplay. And alot of that probably is attributable to the fact that the game, comparatively, didn't have alot of bugs at release.

Just back to the OP's point. Please don't set an industry precedent by not releasing a patch alongside the expansion that contains only bug fixes, that are in the expansion, for the base game. Heck it should also include the base game ai fixes. Expansions are about content not tech support. I honestly haven't heard whether or not this is happening aside from the "this is the last patch" stuff that came with 1.4. Whether or not that was literal I don't know.

 

[unmerged(27471)]

Lastly, Johan, I do appreciate your concern in this regard. It must be difficult going through these threads are reading people criticizing your games in harsh terms. I've introduced several friends to Paradox in the past and hope to do so in the future.

It needs to be always kept in mind that many of the people that are so pissed off about HOI3 are long-standing customers of Paradox that are unhappy for legitimate reasons. From what I can tell HOI3 is in the same place EUIII was a couple years ago. This is why I have hope and indeed why I post on this forum!

 

[jam3]

Just to echo the sentiment I loved Vicky despite its problems. I so desperatly want to buy Vicky 2 when its released but just can't do it in good conscience. I desperatly want you to prove me wrong and read the forums a few weeks after launch and hear the glowing reviews of people about how bug free and balanced it is. No offense but with your track record im not holding my breath this time but I honestly wish you well in the endeavor.

 

[unmerged(27471)]

I've posted a suggestion here that I think would make things much better for Paradox when it comes to new title releases:


http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=476913

 

[unmerged(85507)]

EUIII was playable at release, but was simply not fun. The last two patches have made it into an absolutely killer game, but I'm afraid it was not that enjoyable when released. Too much nonsense going on in the background that destroyed the flavor for me...

Yes, EU III and the earlier Paradox games had been free of ugly bugs at least from version 1.2 on. Then most changes were about little balancing issues, adding more historical research and some new features. I am a fair critic.

@Balor: For me the disappointments began with the release of Rome. Rome had been an... eh "ongoing project" for a too long time and it took several patches before well-known problems were adressed. The result was a dead forum after a certain time. Then I hoped Paradox had learned something... but apparently it had to hit your "flagship" HoI as well.

 

[Nomble]

What was wrong with EU3 at release? It was bugfree and balanced.

, I can understand some getting upset..

but eu3 or rome????

I understand that this is your forum and all..

I can't help myself from laughing. Oh man do you actually believe yourself when you say that? What copy did you have, the Paradox Office Edition?

I can fairly say I'm a huge Paradox Nerd but I can't say I will buy Semper Fi or Victoria 2 on release-day like I done to most Paradox titels. I'm sorry Johan.

 

[rook749]

All extra patches beyond budgeted patches have come from developers (mostly me) working weekends for their love of the game. This is happening much less nowadays, as enough death-threats & name-calling kind of make you not that keen on spending your spare-time adding features to a game.

Balor worry most of us that have been around for a while only appreciate your efforts and all the hard work.

-Rook

 

[Dev]

Always this uniformed argument that is so irritating.

We have increased the amount of money and people spent working on patches for every single project. I've personally spent 90% of my time during 8 months after hoi3 went gold working on patches for hoi3.

Back when we had a team of 6 instead of a mainteam of 8 and an expansion-team of 3 there was two very different things regarding the post-process development.

(A) Before Hoi2 we only budgetted for ONE patch, done during the first month. Nothing else was ever planned for or done. Since then we've changed it to allow for 3 major patches if needed.

(B) All extra patches beyond budgeted patches have come from developers (mostly me) working weekends for their love of the game. This is happening much less nowadays, as enough death-threats & name-calling kind of make you not that keen on spending your spare-time adding features to a game.

Ok so I didn't know you did it off company time and while I appreciate the free time you guys spent on patching the earlier titles your post raises the question of how on earth You as a company completely failed to learn from your mistakes?

By now it can hardly come as a surprise to You that Your products need a long series of patches to become mature, so why don't you try to make realistic budgets?

It's even less understandable because You know how much we've appreciated the full patching cycles and what effect it's had on your company's reputation.

I'll tell you where I personaly draw the line between an expansion and a patch, I'll happily buy an expansion it if the original game is awesome and the expansion would only make it more awesome but when I'm forced to buy it to fix core issues , such as the US not taking part in WW2 or even puting goddamn airplanes on their carriers then I feel abused.

 

[unmerged(168202)]

I'll tell you where I personaly draw the line between an expansion and a patch, I'll happily buy an expansion it if the original game is awesome and the expansion would only make it more awesome but when I'm forced to buy it to fix core issues , such as the US not taking part in WW2 or even puting goddamn airplanes on their carriers then I feel abused.

Agree. An expansion should expand, not fix.

 

[Dev]

Why the hell would he get banned for that?

haha I actually got a forum infraction for one of my posts in this thread.

 

[Slan]

Why the hell would he get banned for that?

haha I actually got a forum infraction for one of my posts in this thread.

Arguing with the Paradox staff is against the forum rules, which you agreed to follow upon registering. Demanding a patch to fix bugs in itself is not argueing, though, only if you get a respons, and you reply to that (you can't argue alone).

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

haha I actually got a forum infraction for one of my posts in this thread.

You received an infraction for the use of foul language, which is not allowed on this forum.

You didn't receive an infraction for asking for a patch.

And for everyone, don't respond to this post. If you wish to comment on this post use the PM system.

 

[Devildread]

I must be a fool myself but I like the way Paradox has dealt with HOI3.

I pre-paid 40€ for a beta that lasted from August 2009 to June 2010 and then I pay 20€ more (Semper Fi) for the finished game. This is 60€ (average price on the market today) for a game I enjoyed for almost a year and I believe will enjoy for years as I did with HOI2.

I'd rather put 60€ in a game like that and encourage the dev to continue their work instead of buying some Call of Duty Map Pack 15€ each for a game who had almost no patch since its release.


Okay HOI3 has bugs and flaws etc. But Paradox tried to improve and fix it. If they had released the game and forget about it until the addon okay I think you can be mad with them but this is not what happened.


I am quite a fanboy I admit.

 

[mbb]

Its the age old problem in software. Not enough investment in QA i.e. testing. Its a management problem not a technical problem.

 

[Dev]

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=s...forum.paradoxplaza.com&as_rights=&safe=images

You all be careful with that word, it's not allowed.

 

[unmerged(150564)]

I am not a fanboy of any game company, i will always wait till a game has been released for at least a week, gets a review on the metacritic board, read somewhere that it is a decent game and talk to some mates and THEN i will buy it. (I never EVER buy based of previews, they will lead to broken hearts and shattered child hood deams).

That being said, i do think PI, a game company who clearly loves there fan base (Yes i said love) and spend that extra time on the weekends at there house (Or office...or both?) working on FREE patches to improve a game that they themselves enjoy to create deserves a little credit when its due tbh.

Do i think they make mistakes? Of course, they woudlen't be human if they didn't but at least the admit them and learn (They learnt form the HOI3 DD which is good.) But i do think people bite there heads off purly because you can and i think it is a tad unfair on the developers themselves.

Perhapes it is good to just simply stand back and look at it from there point of view, they don't put something in delibratly broken or unfinished and PI woulden't be this popular if they did the TW based DLC game where you buy half the game and then the other half later so.

Take from my rant what you will.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=s...forum.paradoxplaza.com&as_rights=&safe=images

You all be careful with that word, it's not allowed.

You are advised to not argue with a moderator on this forum in public.