SERIOUSLY?! Months later I buy the expansion and this is still a problem?!

[dreamer05]

I loved this game and spent many wasted hours loving it when it first came out. However, after they made the Muslims super-uper-duper and I couldn't load up a game without them taking over pretty much all of Europe I was pretty much over it. I have no interest in Muslims, or playing as them. I want to play the European map and actually have Spain exist. I quit playing, even buying the Sword of Islam expansion even though I never once played a Muslim, because of this mechanic. I always love starting as the Duchess of Brittany but it kept going on the same track. I would either conquer Ireland and Whales or become a vassal of France to gain their territories then independence only to have the whole damn thing wiped out by Muslims. I thought after a couple of patches and a new expansion coming out this would have changed but NO?? This is such a terrible game mechanic that completely ruins it for me and I can't believe it hasn't been fixed. I'm only a little sad I bought the Rome expansion hoping the problem would be fixed to spend a few hours on another Brittany campaign only to have the Muslims conquer all again.......... They have to understand that having this happen every single time ruins the game. It's Crusader Kings for Christ's sake, no Muhammad's Crusades... What a waste.

 

[unmerged(68578)]

I loved this game and spent many wasted hours loving it when it first came out. However, after they made the Muslims super-uper-duper and I couldn't load up a game without them taking over pretty much all of Europe I was pretty much over it. I have no interest in Muslims, or playing as them. I want to play the European map and actually have Spain exist. I quit playing, even buying the Sword of Islam expansion even though I never once played a Muslim, because of this mechanic. I always love starting as the Duchess of Brittany but it kept going on the same track. I would either conquer Ireland and Whales or become a vassal of France to gain their territories then independence only to have the whole damn thing wiped out by Muslims. I thought after a couple of patches and a new expansion coming out this would have changed but NO?? This is such a terrible game mechanic that completely ruins it for me and I can't believe it hasn't been fixed. I'm only a little sad I bought the Rome expansion hoping the problem would be fixed to spend a few hours on another Brittany campaign only to have the Muslims conquer all again.......... They have to understand that having this happen every single time ruins the game. It's Crusader Kings for Christ's sake, no Muhammad's Crusades... What a waste.

While the Fatimids can be an issue at times, I've never seen the extremes that you're talking about.

 

[Dracko81]

Maybe instead of attacking your christian neighbours all the time, you could help them against the muslims. You know like anyone would do to ensure a hostile force does not become overpowered. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It is not the muslims being OP.

 

[nyah]

I've never seen it that bad.

 

[cybrxkhan]

While the Muslims are OP, it's really only the Fatimids who become the big blob of the game - in fact the Seljuks pretty much explode into civil war in vanilla after a decade or two.

But like others said I have never seen it that bad - you must have real bad luck or something. At worst they make their way into France and Italy and the Byzantine Empire, but after that they lose steam and the rest of Europe is more or less okay.

 

[Iron Chariots]

In my most recent game as the Duke of Brittany (eventually Emperor of Brittania) Catholics completely dominated the Muslims, especially in Spain, and this was with me often attacking France when they holy warred and were distracted. The Muslims pushed up and took a lot of Spain and Italy early on but after a few years they got pushed back, the key moment being a Crusade for Andalusia. I won it, but the AI could have done so on their own. I only jumped in to stop a newly-formed Ireland from winning.

 

[Gunnarr]

Something that did loads of help for me is starting at 1099, July 15th (That is when the First Crusade had taken Jerusalem)

The Muslims are terribly divided and in all my games playing that date a crusade is usually called to Spain very quickly (Urban II lives longer than he did in history is still Pope and wants more crusades!!!!!) and the Muslims are beaten back in Spain (though a bit too much, Castille usually takes all of west Africa!)

The Byzantines also have an easier time at surviving

In my last game I saw England win a successful crusade on Jerusalem (after Jerusalem fell again to the muslims), and after taking much of the Holy Land they then took lower Egypt (THAT MEANS NORTHERN EGYPT). The King of England then changed his Primary Title to the King of Jerusalem. (That did not do too well for his land in Britain though ;P)

So, I recommend moving the clock forward only 33 years and then to July 15th if you are having trouble with muslims blobbing all of Europe!

 

[cywang86]

Funny, if I start out as France or William -> England, or HRE, I can pretty much steamroll through Iberian Muslims within the first 20 years. AI is extremely bad at keeping the enemy in check, so if you want to break the major badboys from within, do it quick or don't bother with it, or YOU will get steamrolled instead.

The Iberian muslims are extremely easy to break due to them having multiple nations. You have to declare war on them independently and pick them apart. Don't wait for them to start a holy war of their own and eat through the Catholic lands.

I think the best part is being able to raid the cities for gold -> accept peace -> watch them join the other holy war nearby-> raid again for the full amount even when they only have 50 garrisons -> accept peace, and repeat for like 4 times.

 

[dreamer05]

Thanks for the advice! I prefer to build up my own duchy before I breach out for new territory. And it's not that I ignore Muslims attacking the Christians it's that by the time they get here they have power stacks of almost 8k which my small duchies can't rival and the kings of France AI are fighting their own vassals so it all goes to shit every time. I seriously haven't played a game in a loooooong time where Muslims don't conquer most of France and it ruins it for me. I like to build up my duchy and then become a vassal of France to take more mainland territory then become independent. Then I have enough power as the kingdom of Brittany to help against Muslims but it seems like they just steamroll through every Christian nation in Spain without any problems. It's ridiculous. I've seen this before on posts, we shouldn't have to interfere in the Iberian Peninsula for them to sustain themselves, it happened in real life I mean come on...

 

[cywang86]

Thanks for the advice! I prefer to build up my own duchy before I breach out for new territory. And it's not that I ignore Muslims attacking the Christians it's that by the time they get here they have power stacks of almost 8k which my small duchies can't rival and the kings of France AI are fighting their own vassals so it all goes to shit every time. I seriously haven't played a game in a loooooong time where Muslims don't conquer most of France and it ruins it for me. I like to build up my duchy and then become a vassal of France to take more mainland territory then become independent. Then I have enough power as the kingdom of Brittany to help against Muslims but it seems like they just steamroll through every Christian nation in Spain without any problems. It's ridiculous. I've seen this before on posts, we shouldn't have to interfere in the Iberian Peninsula for them to sustain themselves, it happened in real life I mean come on...

Yes the game has its flaws. Mainly due to the fact that all muslims start out with better tech AND all buildings starting at level 1. Unlike the Catholics who need to build from level..0. That means they can dish out armies twice as big.
However, they're also more vulnerable to civil war due to the decadence system.
The problem really becomes who's better at doing civil wars, or redirect the country hate onto the other side.

If you wish, you can start as one of the kings down there and try to form Hispania. The demesne size of the smaller kings down there is the same as a duke of Brittany.

 

[gja102]

There's no law saying you have to start in 1066. Pick a date where the Fatimid blob has been weakened and the Iberian Christians are a bit stronger. I got into the habit of starting in 1077, where the Sultanate of Rum exists and both the Byzantines and Fatimids are less powerful. I guess a 1st Crusade start, as mentioned above, would also be a good choice.

So many Paradox players seem to have a problem with changing the start date...

 

[justin6477]

There's no law saying you have to start in 1066. Pick a date where the Fatimid blob has been weakened and the Iberian Christians are a bit stronger. I got into the habit of starting in 1077, where the Sultanate of Rum exists and both the Byzantines and Fatimids are less powerful. I guess a 1st Crusade start, as mentioned above, would also be a good choice.

So many Paradox players seem to have a problem with changing the start date...

Yeah, I have to agree with all the "don't start in 1066" posts. 1066 is only good for the Norman invasion of England, or the Norwegian invasion of England.... or the valiant Saxon defense of England. Whatever floats your boat.

Instead, always start after the Fatimids have lost some land. Late 1070s through the 1090s is always a good choice. Personally, my preference is to start before Jerusalem exists. It also helps to stop the Fatimids from making ludicrous amounts of land de jure Egypt.

 

[dreamer05]

I never ever start in 1066. It still never matters. It always ends up the same and it's not even the Fatimiads. It's ridiculous how strong the Muslims are.

 

[Kanin_Usagi]

Another problem is that you're probably not playing for long enough. Most of the time, for the first hundred years or so, Muslims do extremely well, but once the tech/building gap closes and Muslims start seeing more decadence revolts, then the Christian nations start catching back up. Til the Mongols that is. Once they enter a game, its anyone's guess how it will end.

 

[cywang86]

Til the Mongols that is. Once they enter a game, its anyone's guess how it will end.

The aztecs sacrifice the pople to their god!

 

[nyah]

What I don't understand is that while I've clocked up over 500 hours of gameplay I've never seen this problem (I've seen the Muslims do well and then get knocked back) I understand that some other players. I know this because I've read it on the forum. Maybe I've just had good luck.

However, if I'd played a game and experienced what for me was a game breaking experience, bad enough for me to put the game down for several months, then I think I might have read the forum before parting with more of my cash. The OP

thought after a couple of patches and a new expansion coming out this would have changed but NO?

. Did he not read the forum at all? Did he not check the patch and DLC changelogs? If he had then he would have known that there had been no major re-balancing of the Muslims. Instead of doing five minutes of research he comes on here and rants about how bad the game is.

And, if you're not having an enjoyable experience playing a particular dynasty, maybe try to play a different one. There are plenty of other independent duchies out there.

 

[Dracko81]

Well the standard thing I see is that after 100 years even the byzantines are pushing back the muslims.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/937007313360778077/ECD16CCAE013EA78C02C0D13915AFEC3F6AD5C11/

I have not gotten involved with the Iberians, I have not - as yet - gotten involved with the Byzantine empire (several dynasty members as dukes, now I just need to put some family members in positions to get claims). I have declared war on the Seljuk's once(first muslim war), just recently and have not gotten into any holy wars other then my own.

All of the Byzantine gains are their own (duel civil war atm and possible dyanstic claims in 2 generations) the western christians have pushed the muslims back fairly well. 2 failed crusades for Jerusalem.

Muslims are not OP by any means, if anything they are too weak.

 

[Sacrist]

If you yourself as a christian weaken other christian powers and do not aid in the defense of the Iberians then you just might see a muslim spain.

I usually try to keep an eye on how it's going down there and in the end if it is going bad for the christians I usually put all my efforts into helping them in their wars to at least equalize the situation (don't want them to win outright cause that often means that I have a strong spanish nation that might want to start gobbling up christians) to keep it in war for as long as I see fit.

 

[whosthebestcop]

Muslims not over powered. If your catholic you will eventually be able to raise 3 holy orders.

Perhaps the first 75 years of game time the Muslims out tech and out number Catholics but historically the Muslims were far more advanced technologically speaking then the European Catholics.

Also expansions never fix anything they add content. The Free patches are what actually fix things and change game elements.

 

[Wezqu]

My latest game muslims failed quite badly in Spain and didn't do much head way against Byzantium or Italy. Not to mention that mongols took the whole persia from them. So muslims are not over powered.