They are an ascension perk. They are supposed to be powerful. It would be disappointing otherwise. I don't consider them OP. The question we should be asking instead is "are ringworlds supposed to be this lame?"
Seriously, are Ecumenopoli supposed to be this OP?
- Thread starter Eraden
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The major issue is the ratio of production/upkeep.
Normally you pay 2 strategic resources, 6 energy to upkeep 8 alloy/CG jobs. With ecumenopolis, you pay just energy for 10 jobs.
I would say knocking the jobs from disticts from 10 to 8 (keep the housing), while rasining the upkeep of the disrticts to around 10 energy would be a good step in the right direction.
Normally you pay 2 strategic resources, 6 energy to upkeep 8 alloy/CG jobs. With ecumenopolis, you pay just energy for 10 jobs.
I would say knocking the jobs from disticts from 10 to 8 (keep the housing), while rasining the upkeep of the disrticts to around 10 energy would be a good step in the right direction.
Ecumenopolis, not OP. Fen habitas is certainly OP.
Regular requires ascension perk, 20k minerals + 500 (450 with prosperity) housing district. Lets say you convert an average planet, say size 12 that is 12 x 500 thats another 6000 minerals. Also you have to factor in other planets districts redevelopment to account for any mineral, food or energy you may convert on this planet to housing.
And if you are able to get 26k minerals you will also need either planet side resource depots or star base resource depots.
And lets say you play multiplayer, or you have an aggresive AI next to you ( and i'm not talking about the joke vanilla AI ) , you will HAVE to invest in alloys before you can develop ecumenopolis, so forget that amount of minerals.
Regular requires ascension perk, 20k minerals + 500 (450 with prosperity) housing district. Lets say you convert an average planet, say size 12 that is 12 x 500 thats another 6000 minerals. Also you have to factor in other planets districts redevelopment to account for any mineral, food or energy you may convert on this planet to housing.
And if you are able to get 26k minerals you will also need either planet side resource depots or star base resource depots.
And lets say you play multiplayer, or you have an aggresive AI next to you ( and i'm not talking about the joke vanilla AI ) , you will HAVE to invest in alloys before you can develop ecumenopolis, so forget that amount of minerals.
You know one thing that would blunt the overpowering advantage of these city-worlds and make the economy a bit more sensable would be something Ivebrought up in other threads.
Require training time before a pop can fill specalist slots, some lag or friction going either way in strata. Then you have the issues of training and supporting while training, a huge population while you try to get fen habanis or its lesser imatatorsup to speed, and aditional concerns of building usage to maintain a well educated population.
Require training time before a pop can fill specalist slots, some lag or friction going either way in strata. Then you have the issues of training and supporting while training, a huge population while you try to get fen habanis or its lesser imatatorsup to speed, and aditional concerns of building usage to maintain a well educated population.
To get mass decompressers or dyson spheres, you basically need three perks to do it quickly, voidborne>master builder>galatic wonders.
Ecu's only need one.
Yes, it's an ascension perk, but it's the second best one in the game and far better than everything else.
Yeah let's just say that there is no such thing as a serious late game economy without ecumenopoli. I don't see how you could ever hope to compete with lousy tier 3 alloy buildings.
The AI sucks, 20k of BBs or even Cruisers you can usually kill everyhting. Then you have an industrial world, refinery world, forge world, tech world etc. A single ring world can feed your empire and provide a heap of energy, a few habitats do wonders for your force limits and then you just need a forge world or 2 and maybe a motes producing world.
Or just build a matter decompressor.
Those 3 perks give you access to numerous megastructures, including ringworlds, you also get access to habitats and a number of other nice perks. Now as I said in my earlier post in this thread, indeed ringworlds aren't exactly that impressive anymore. And I find the build limit for the resource megastructures arbitrary and annoying. So certainly there are things that could and should happen to make those 3 perks more exciting than they are. And better ways to balance them can be found. That said, gutting the ecumenopolis perk because unlike most of the others it is impressive and desirable is not the way to go about it.
Last game I needed 17 years to complete the precursors. So yeah, that is kinda crazy
It's a nice thought, but unfortunately when one perk is leaps and bounds beyond the others, balancing by dialing the one back is easier then sprucing everything else up.
Objectively, Ecus are just a bit over the top right now, in particular Fen Habbanis. Even a 20% reduction in what they provide per district might be a reasonable drop while still making them highly vaunted. They should still bring a lot of other perks up, but the gap is truly just that big right now and anyone saying otherwise is just trying to protect their OP Ecus
What'll probably end up happening to Ecumenopolises is that they'll get their "bonus to everything" cut down to size for starters (as in, down from 20% to, say, 10%, same as gaia and machine/hive worlds)... and probably also the growth rate bonus. And they need it - anyone remember when machine worlds first came out, with a 25% bonus to all resource production? Yeahhhh...
And yes, yes they are overtuned relative to everything else in the game at the moment. Stacking all the modifiers (which, on a 100% habitability world, that can use all building slots to help, is easier) I managed to get to almost a 1:1 conversion ratio from minerals to alloys. That's crazy. (Not to mention consumer goods, which were more like 1 mineral -> 2 consumer goods). They are as good as habitats were pre-nerf, pre 2.2, I would say. Essentially, as long as the planet in question is not mineral-rich (or food-rich, if you don't have livestock slaves or a ringworld), it's a no-brainer to make it an ecumenopolis. Want a tech world? Ecumenopolis. Alloys? Ecumenopolis. Refineries? Ecumenopolis. Etc. The 20% bonus needs to go (at least, down, if not entirely) for this to even remotely become a strategic decision. This was the reason for habitats getting nerfed, so why shouldn't Ecumenopolises?
And yes, yes they are overtuned relative to everything else in the game at the moment. Stacking all the modifiers (which, on a 100% habitability world, that can use all building slots to help, is easier) I managed to get to almost a 1:1 conversion ratio from minerals to alloys. That's crazy. (Not to mention consumer goods, which were more like 1 mineral -> 2 consumer goods). They are as good as habitats were pre-nerf, pre 2.2, I would say. Essentially, as long as the planet in question is not mineral-rich (or food-rich, if you don't have livestock slaves or a ringworld), it's a no-brainer to make it an ecumenopolis. Want a tech world? Ecumenopolis. Alloys? Ecumenopolis. Refineries? Ecumenopolis. Etc. The 20% bonus needs to go (at least, down, if not entirely) for this to even remotely become a strategic decision. This was the reason for habitats getting nerfed, so why shouldn't Ecumenopolises?
People keep saying Matter Decompressors are more important but when I start in First League space I'm maxing out on Minerals and Alloys before I even get to building megastructures, and then at that income level megastructures are so cheap that I'm maxing out on alloys in the time it takes to build one. I haven't even built a matter decompressor yet because more minerals income is kind of pointless when I can't spend them fast enough.
It's easily possible to build more labs than can be fed with every mineral district being worked.
Can definitely get over a 1:1 conversion ratio:
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Fro my personal opinion Ecumenopolis are long term investment, plus it cost one AP slot so I don't consider it as OP.
I'm going there now with a construction ship and I'll connect Fen Habbanis with the rest of the empire as soon as I'm able to make a gateway (playing a tall megacorp).
2403 I have 4 ecumonopolies running.
Capitol for trade, one for alloys and consumer goods and one as research leisure one.
Three of those are filled. I agree precursors need rebalance
Capitol for trade, one for alloys and consumer goods and one as research leisure one.
Three of those are filled. I agree precursors need rebalance
I think production districts shouldn't give this much housing. Currently it is way too easy fill both housing and production needs.
Why not both?
Ecumenopoli could take a drubbing and still be stronger than comparable investments are now.
Ecumenopolie or a Gaia World?
I dare you find a person to say they rather have a Gaia world. This ilustrates how inadecuate it is.
Having a BEST option, a BEST strategy, a BEST way of doing things is never a good idea in a game like this. I want to have valid options... with different streghts, and no BEST or RIGHT choice.
Why can't we have multiple ramifications of BEST options? How come Gaia worlds are meh in this patch when before they where a sweet thing to find or even terraform into?
How come Psionic, Evolutive and Synthetic asentions are so unbalanced? How come one is better than other? Can't it be BALANCED?
I dare you find a person to say they rather have a Gaia world. This ilustrates how inadecuate it is.
Having a BEST option, a BEST strategy, a BEST way of doing things is never a good idea in a game like this. I want to have valid options... with different streghts, and no BEST or RIGHT choice.
Why can't we have multiple ramifications of BEST options? How come Gaia worlds are meh in this patch when before they where a sweet thing to find or even terraform into?
How come Psionic, Evolutive and Synthetic asentions are so unbalanced? How come one is better than other? Can't it be BALANCED?