Serious question: Does ANYONE think HoI is challenging even with 1.03 ?

[ErikHeinrichs]

To my very big disappointment after installing 1.03 and starting a 36 scen as Germany with Very hard/furious settings only country that gave me ANY kind of problems was France and that JUST because i wasnt ready for the DoW as i had been researching a lot and hadnt built one single unit since start of the game (DoW came in the end of 38).

I have to admit, it was pretty "hard" to fight the czechs and the allies at the same time with your starting units but... and a VERY BIG BUT because the AI in HoI is dumber than a potato i could manage to beat France and annex the czechs within 6 months.

They had 100+ divisions on maginot line and the belgium border (belgium and french forces) but still because of the AI they left some incredibly important territories without good defences i could take Rommel and Guderian and just blitz through everything and hit Paris.

Now... SU was "hard" after the DoW just because they had almost 3 times more division than i did but without defending Leningrad (marines there), Moskva and Stalingrad i got a pretty fast bitter peace offer.

Next patch should do something very drastic for the AI... even make the AI cheat craploads to make this game a little (read: A LOT) harder.

P.S Please...i only want serious feedback... no "Fanboiz".

 

[BiB]

I think so.

Obviously not exploiting the Bitter Peace loophole would go a long way towards getting more of a challenge.

 

[Dev]

P.S Please...i only want serious feedback... no "Fanboiz".

Next.

/dev

 

[unmerged(2377)]

I do.

 

[unmerged(3352)]

Originally posted by ErikHeinrichs
as i had been researching a lot and hadnt built one single unit since start of the game (DoW came in the end of 38).

I think this part sums up your problem rather nicely.

If you insist on playing completely ahistorical, trying to milk every advantage out of the game, exploiting any loophole or gamey trick there is, then you should not really expect a realistic sequence of events in the war.

I'm sorry, but I dont think I can explain it any better than that. Try to play it more historic, and you will get more historic results.

 

[unmerged(11567)]

Re: Re: Serious question: Does ANYONE think HoI is challenging even with 1.03 ?

Originally posted by Hortlund
I think this part sums up your problem rather nicely.

If you insist on playing completely ahistorical, trying to milk every advantage out of the game, exploiting any loophole or gamey trick there is, then you should not really expect a realistic sequence of events in the war.

I'm sorry, but I dont think I can explain it any better than that. Try to play it more historic, and you will get more historic results.

100% agree with you Hortlund. Try to play a little more historically, and not taking advantage of a few known 'cheats' out there, and the game can be fun and challenging.

I just started a game as the U.S. The Soviet Union is about to crumble, 90% of Europe is occupied by Germany, and Japan just joined the axis. I think the game score at the moment is 580 - 260 in favor of the axis (something like that, I am at work). Should be interesting to see how much I can dent that German super-power and fend off Japan.

(The fact that it is only Oct 1940 at the moment is another story )

 

[ErikHeinrichs]

hmm, dont quite understand that.

If i have a lot of troops with the latest tech... wouldnt that make me stronger instead of using my crappy Panzer I's and regular infanteries ?. Because i ONLY make artillery etc "special" infantery/mech/armor units.

So, producing units and researching would make me stronger, correct ?.

The Fanboy thing... well... its very hard to get a good reply from someone that thinks a game/car/magazine/whatever is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

*edit*

And im NOT bothered about the "historical" thingy here... i want the game to be challenging for me so that i dont end up conquering europe, africa and asia before 1943 heh.

 

[unmerged(13242)]

I would like to see the AI for the big powers improved so as to keep you on your toes. Some combined assaults on W. Europe by the Allies with amphib assaults behind the lines would definitely take the sting out of any Panzer assault along the coast. I agree that right now the French just sit in the Maginot Line and await certain death from the right hook. I know it is historical but with furious settings for AI the game should play different from history. Rich

 

[unmerged(3352)]

Originally posted by ErikHeinrichs
hmm, dont quite understand that.

If i have a lot of troops with the latest tech... wouldnt that make me stronger instead of using my crappy Panzer I's and regular infanteries ?. Because i ONLY make artillery etc "special" infantery/mech/armor units.

So, producing units and researching would make me stronger, correct ?.

The Fanboy thing... well... its very hard to get a good reply from someone that thinks a game/car/magazine/whatever is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

*edit*

And im NOT bothered about the "historical" thingy here... i want the game to be challenging for me so that i dont end up conquering europe, africa and asia before 1943 heh.

Try this. In your next game,

1) dont use brigades (since the ai isnt capable of using them right now)

2) never allow your research budget be greater than twice of the production budget (in other words, if you are producing stuff for 60ic, your research cannot be greater than 120)

3) research "realistically"...in other words, dont focus on one or two tech trees that you know leads to super weapons as soon as possible. Research other stuff too, like carriers if you are Germany, or rocket science, or naval doctrins.

Trust me, the game is more hard and much more fun that way.


But as I said, if you want to race down the tech tree as fast as possible, and then conquer other nations using paratroopers and light tank divisions equipped with engineers, then go right ahead, but the game will not be a real challenge, nor will it really be fun (at least I cannot imagine that being fun)'


Oh, and trust me, you are not getting the fanboi treatment here...

 

[ErikHeinrichs]

One more thing about the Bitter peace. Well, if i articially make the war longer by just Sitzkrieging for 4 years (like the AI does) that still doesnt make the game more challenging for me... just more boring.

I have noticed that the AI doesnt really understand how to defend any territory on the map because it doesnt really "think". If you place say 20 divisions near maginot line the AI counters with placing as much there but doesnt do anything else.

Atleast in EU 2 the enemies understood a little about defending and attacking undefended territories.

Thing is... i like this game A LOT... have to say one of the better games in the last 5 years if you look at the idea etc.

*edit*

That is the basic problem with this game being so easy. The AI doesnt understand that he/she/it SHOULDNT research some stuff like rocketry etc but rather invest 95%+ of the research IC's in only land techs.

There is one big reason why scripted games arent that good in AI.

Im sorry if this is more like ranting but its getting more frustrating each time i play heh. Something like UK with its HUUUUUUGE rubber etc shipments its NEVER EVER out of supply but that doesnt stop him from having MAX 25 divisions in the game at ANYTIME.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Try multiplayer if you have a good connection. Good fun and nice challenge. Anybody doing too much research as Germany will find his empire reduced to a research institut somewhere in the Alps very soon.

If mp is not an option for you - play another major power.

 

[unmerged(13357)]

I think u fellas are being a bit unrealistic with your expectations of the Ai. I am yet to play a real time or turn based strategy game that really challenges the human player. (and i have played a lot being a big time strategy game addict) Its a bit unfair to slag off Paradox for being unable to deliver a game that's AI really challenges the human player as they are not alone in this failing. Put simply i dont think todays technology or software writing is capable of simulating human intellegiance on a level to our own.

Dont get me wrong i know where u are all coming from, HOI is way too easy , and i get annoyed as much as the next man playing germany and being able to conqueror Europe with such little effort. And especially annoyed with the AI's inability to invade occupied Ww Europe in large numbers (like D Day) rather than chucking a few pissy divs now and then.

Maybe im a bit morbid but i want to find myself Fuhurer of the Deutsches Reich when it is losing the war (like mid 1943 onwards)
not in charge of a nation that can so easily win the war.
But i guess the only way i can do this is to play the MP.

 

[unmerged(8319)]

There's one thing here I think it's imperative to say: NO CHEATING AI TO COMPENSATE FOR BAD CODING!

I'd rather have a weak AI than one that's difficult to beat because it violates a lot of rules that apply to the human players.

A definate nay!

...or at least I would like the option to turn the cheats off.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Originally posted by Sgt. Bulldog
There's one thing here I think it's imperative to say: NO CHEATING AI TO COMPENSATE FOR BAD CODING!

I'd rather have a weak AI than one that's difficult to beat because it violates a lot of rules that apply to the human players.

A definate nay!

...or at least I would like the option to turn the cheats off.

I'd take a cheating AI over an easy one any day. So a cheating AI with options to turn it off would be perfect. But that would mean double coding - one AI that knows how to use the cheats and one that can perfom without it. So we will never see that ... .

 

[unmerged(8652)]

I'm having a very fun and challenging game with France on the 1936 campaign right now (1.03, no mods, very hard / furious). I have not restricted my own actions in any way to make the game more historical, except that I chose not to extend the Maginot line all the way to the coast.

The war started a few months later than historically, and Germany very quickly took out Poland. Both Germany and Italy have now managed to advance deep into my territories, and my only hope seems to be that Soviet DOWs the axis before I've lost all my continental possesions.

Generally, I'm very happy with the latest patch. There's obviously still a lot of stuff to fix and the game is far from perfect, but particulary the fixed naval battles (ships take a lot more damage now), the working slider locks, the working intercept mission and the way the AI seems to build a lot more troops now have made the game a lot more enjoyable for me.

 

[hinkar]

Originally posted by ErikHeinrichs

I have noticed that the AI doesnt really understand how to defend any territory on the map because it doesnt really "think".

Atleast in EU 2 the enemies understood a little about defending and attacking undefended territories.

*edit*

That is the basic problem with this game being so easy. The AI doesnt understand that he/she/it SHOULDNT research some stuff like rocketry etc but rather invest 95%+ of the research IC's in only land techs.

There is one big reason why scripted games arent that good in AI.

Er, no AI 'thinks'. No AI 'understands' any more than a toaster pops up your toast when it 'thinks' your toast is ready.

I don't think you can compare HOI with EU2 AIs really because it's so difficult to capture provinces in EU2 compared with HOI.

I do find, however, that starting in 1939 is more challenging than starting in 1936.
It would be nice if there was an 'extremely hard' level above the 'very hard' though...

 

[unmerged(14128)]

in love

I love this game. Starting 36 makes nearly everthing possible...

 

[C.N.]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Try this. In your next game,

1) dont use brigades (since the ai isnt capable of using them right now)

Not true anymore.

"- About one AI land division in four built will now have a brigade attached."
- Readme_1.03.txt

 

[unmerged(3352)]

hehe, I guess I should read that 1.03 fix list more carefully the next time.

Although, I think Im going to keep my ban on brigades...it makes for more interesting battles vs the ai.

 

[Steel]

Try Poland in '39 scenario for a hard game. Good luck and let me know if you defeat Germany.

BTW, I was playing Kursk '43 the other day. The game engine has been around for a while and I thought it could be interesting to see how it would perform AI on AI. Interestingly the German AI only achieved one out of eight objectives while the Russian AI never even moved any units. Historically the scenario was German victory, in the game it was a Russian victory.

It was quite dreary to watch yet sadly this is what some people are calling for (hard coded defence of VP locations) as an "improvement" to HOI. I don't see how forcing the AI to keep a number of divisions in a certain province could help since it would be extremely simple to ensure local superiority, encircle and force a surrender since you'd know that the AI is not allowed to pull forces out of locations that are not threatened.

Same thing goes for cheats, maybe it makes for a slightly more challenging game if the AI USSR build and supports divisions at half cost but I don't see that it would really improve anything, it would just increase the size of the mis-placed stacks.

I would prefer to see continued dialogue between Paradox and the community with gradual improvements to the AI, especially now that it's open for modding. That way we get a better AI opponent while maintaining a level battlefield.