Serious balance issue, explorers/conquistadors

[RedPhoenix]

Right now exploring is seriously too easy and too early in Abe. There needs to be some serious work on this issue, also there are huge disparencies in explorers for colony-able countries.

For example brittany gets explorers allready 1482 or so, and a dozen of them between that time and 1530, all very long living. So basically can explore the entire globe by 1530, I don't think this is how it should be. There are no more explorers after 1558, do we really want that the world is known entirely 1-2 centuries earlier than RL? I mean yeah thats not a problem if we want that, but well I think honestly it should be a bit slower :I

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Eire starts with explorers in 1425 and I have explored whole NA east coast with the first two in 1450 in our MP. Not that it would be any different from vanilla GC Portugal, where those two can find Table and Brazil...

How good are those Brittanyan explorers then? Many fives and sixes in maneuver? Also, as early ships are slow, discovering sea zones far from resupply ports is also extremely difficult or expensive in the way of attrition.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Eire starts with explorers in 1425 and I have explored whole NA east coast with the first two in 1450 in our MP. Not that it would be any different from vanilla GC Portugal, where those two can find Table and Brazil...

How good are those Brittanyan explorers then? Many fives and sixes in maneuver? Also, as early ships are slow, discovering sea zones far from resupply ports is also extremely difficult or expensive in the way of attrition.

I'm gonna put down some stats here Then we can look. Gnna post a few nations explorers. Co = conquistador, will post some too. As you can see conquistadors are overpowered too for some, prime example brittany again. Conquistadors should come a bit later, atleast most of them, some early ones but not all early! Also be good to note the combat values and movement of conquistadors, these play a big role too in especially early colonial wars, and raping of natives. Later not so big deal, but great colonial leaders could be made conquistador

Brittany:

Cartier: 1532-1557 6 movement
Carantec: 1483-1504 5 movement
Locronan: 1501-1533 5 movement
Fouesnant: 1493-1521 4 movement
Muzzillac: 1507-1531 4 movement
Arandon: 1524-1558 6 movement

Co-Roscoff: 1494-1521 6-4-5
Co-Guingamp: 1502-1531 6-4-5
Co-Lamballe: 1513-1541 6-4-5
Co-La Salle: 1678-1687 4-3-3

Scotland: I think scotland is a prime example how the explorers should be. Good job Archduke

MacHardy: 1512-1526 6 movement
Dinwiddie: 1545-1557 5 movement
MacKillop: 1592-1608 5 movement
Pennycook: 1613-1624 4 movement
Learmonth: 1723-1744 4 movement

Co-MacThomas: 1524-1541 6-4-5
Co-MacPherson: 1564-1581 6-4-5

Burgundy: Same as above, archduke shines through

Ninon: 1570-1591 6 movement
Locronan: 1601-1621 5 movement

Genova:

Columbus: 1486-1506 6 movement
Magalhaes: 1519-122 5 movement
Del Cano: 1524-1527 4 movement
Lombardi: 1582-1587 3 movement
Veneroso: 1616-1624 4 movement

Marconi: 1623-1630 4 movement
de Costa: 1654-1671 5 movement
Masuccone: 1704-1722 4 movement

Co-Silvestri: 1580-1588 3-3-3
Co-Lomellini: 1598-1610 4-4-4-1
Co-deSalvo: 1633-1643 3-2-3
Co-Ruzzi: 1675-1690 4-2-2
Co-Montebruno: 1701-1733 5-3-4-2

Eire:

Senill: 1426-1431 -4
Eanes: 1435-1448 -4
O'Hara: 1460-1480 -3
Saoirse: 1500-1512 -5
O'Hara: 1590-1602 -4
M O'hara: 1720-1735 -3

Co-Aimiliona: 1475-1501 6-4-3
Co-Struthers: 1530-1550 6-4-4-1
Co-Finnegan: 1630-1650 6-3-3

 

[artemis667]

Wow... those six alone will explore most of the world.

There needs to be a bit of moderation, as I think some of the likely colonisers in Aberration don't get their explorers until around the seventeenth century...

Perhaps we should make a formula (Example):
Aggregate (Manuevurability+5)*Lifetime, and limit this to the following:
1419-1449: 50 (7 years of a maneuver 2 exp, 5 years of a maneuver 5)
1450-1499: 100 (14, 10)
1500-1549: 200 (28, 14)
1549-1600: 300 (42, 28)

I don't know what the comparitive advantage between high manuevurability and low manuevurability explorers is, but something like this could be a useful guide.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Maneuver is the most important quality in explorer as it determines the speed how quickly an explorer finds an unexplored sea zone.

 

[Medicine Man]

Right now exploring is seriously too easy and too early in Abe. There needs to be some serious work on this issue, also there are huge disparencies in explorers for colony-able countries.

For example brittany gets explorers allready 1482 or so, and a dozen of them between that time and 1530, all very long living. So basically can explore the entire globe by 1530, I don't think this is how it should be. There are no more explorers after 1558, do we really want that the world is known entirely 1-2 centuries earlier than RL? I mean yeah thats not a problem if we want that, but well I think honestly it should be a bit slower :I

No duh.

It will be balanced, but we haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[RedPhoenix]

No duh.

It will be balanced, but we haven't gotten around to it yet.

Still not sleeping? heh. Well thats what I'm here for anyway, to find these things and help get them fixed asap, this one of the main things influencing how the game runs anyway, so a top priority.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I'll be doing an excel sheet of all leaders of Aberration majors...

 

[Medicine Man]

Still not sleeping? heh. Well thats what I'm here for anyway, to find these things and help get them fixed asap, this one of the main things influencing how the game runs anyway, so a top priority.

I've just about given up on ever getting to sleep.

To elaborate on my terse answer a little bit: Yes, the current colonization scheme is pretty far from being balanced, and yes, we do realize it. We haven't done anything about it because the last time we (I) brought it up we hadn't yet finished content or leaders for many of the major nations. At the time, *that* was the higher priority.

Anyhow -- I wouldn't freak out or anything. We aren't going to leave things severely skewed. I suspect that versions 1.06 to 1.30 (or whatever) will be all about re-balancing.

Edit: I dropped a link to the Colonization debate thread in the Leader debate thread, Red Pheonix.

 

[Medicine Man]

I'll be doing an excel sheet of all leaders of Aberration majors...

A capital idea. I was thinking of doing up a database myself. Being able to run a few queries would be really handy. More to the point however, Archduke has already indicated that there will likely be a large leader audit somewhere along the way. So, all told, I'm really not worried. We will normalize the leader situation, it will just take some time.

 

[RedPhoenix]

A capital idea. I was thinking of doing up a database myself. Being able to run a few queries would be really handy. More to the point however, Archduke has already indicated that there will likely be a large leader audit somewhere along the way. So, all told, I'm really not worried. We will normalize the leader situation, it will just take some time.

As long as some countrie will have much better leaders than some, don't want all to be equal

Anyway Medicine man, stop saying "we will fix it" etc, I'm part of the group trying to improve this I'm coding events and such too

Just posting here to get these things open and up here. So we get discussion on it

If anyone feels like posting more countries expos and conqui here be great, I gotta run now maybe I'll do some more when I get back later.

 

[Medicine Man]

As long as some countrie will have much better leaders than some, don't want all to be equal

Agreed. Making everything homogenious would make everything boring as well.

Anyway Medicine man, stop saying "we will fix it" etc, I'm part of the group trying to improve this I'm coding events and such too

But we will fix it.

Just posting here to get these things open and up here. So we get discussion on it

If anyone feels like posting more countries expos and conqui here be great, I gotta run now maybe I'll do some more when I get back later.

Check the colonization debate thread. In fact, I'll just bump it. I definately welcome having another couple of people in on the whole balance debate though. Having more people working on the coding is stellar.

Just don't touch Iberia or Italy without starting a dialog with me.