I did say were didn't i? In case it wasn't obvious, I was referring to the period in which the game takes place, just as I believe JDM was.
Not sure If I'd call him a socialist though; same goes for Henry Ford.
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I did say were didn't i? In case it wasn't obvious, I was referring to the period in which the game takes place, just as I believe JDM was.
Not sure If I'd call him a socialist though; same goes for Henry Ford.
I don't think I could ever think of Carnegie as a socialist, unless I missed something.
edit: Tangzhang beat me to it.
By today's standards he'd be on the right-wing side of the spectrum, but make no mistake, this was profoundly socialist and radical back then.
yes, he is. Now I remember. After he sold all his company stocks, he had become the richest man in the USA and decided to put it to good use. I stand corrected.
Carnegie was a complex man, and the times were complicated too. He made his money by good old robber-baron tactics, teaming up with coal magnate Henry Clay Frick and combining their empires to vertically-integrate the steel business, owning everything from the coal and ore in the ground to the making of steel products. Carnegie took the high road and became a philanthropist while Frick managed the companies by breaking labor (see the Homestead Strike) and dropping prices below the break-even point to crush (and buy up) competitors. With the help of financier JP Morgan, Carnegie Steel became (I think) the world's largest producer. Later, Morgan orchestrated the buy-out, forming US Steel and paying $400 million for Carnegie Steel - that would be many times that amount today.
Carnegie poured a lot of money into libraries and other projects; Frick left an enormous art collection (the Frick Collection in New York). Both men were charter members of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club, whose shoddy dam collapsed and caused the Johnstown Flood.
So both men were pretty typical of their type. They built huge fortunes, paid their workers little or nothing, left vast estates (including massive art collections), gave a little money to charity and philanthropy and broke, evaded or bought their way around city, state and federal laws whenever they wanted. (Of their compatriot John D Rockefeller it was said that he could do anything with the Pennsylvania legislature except refine it.)
I applaud Mr Carnegie's late-life commitment to literacy for the public (and other works) and only wish it had come sooner.
Carnegie poured a lot of money into libraries and other projects; Frick left an enormous art collection (the Frick Collection in New York). Both men were charter members of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club, whose shoddy dam collapsed and caused the Johnstown Flood.
So both men were pretty typical of their type. They built huge fortunes, paid their workers little or nothing, left vast estates (including massive art collections), gave a little money to charity and philanthropy and broke, evaded or bought their way around city, state and federal laws whenever they wanted. (Of their compatriot John D Rockefeller it was said that he could do anything with the Pennsylvania legislature except refine it.)
I applaud Mr Carnegie's late-life commitment to literacy for the public (and other works) and only wish it had come sooner.
All right... I will not respond to the remainder of the discussion about socialism, as there's probably no point. It was a discussion that occupied our time while I wasn't updating, so hopefully we'll get back on track now (not that I didn't enjoy the exchange -- it's just not a winnable debate). So, here we are! Sorry I've been so inconsistent lately -- every day I think I should be writing fiction, to pursue this new goal of mine, but other things, plus the fiction, crowd out the AAR. I can't let that happen, always. I'll get us going again.
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Once Russian reinforcements reached the beleaguered garrison at Verkhoyansk, in eastern Siberia, Gen. Katsu’s attempt at moving the frontier forward in that region were ended. By the middle of January, 1901, Katsu was forced to withdraw his troops.
By the end of that campaign, the Russians outnumbered the Japanese 36,000 to 6,000. But 11,000 Russians had fallen, compared to only 5,000 Japanese. It was an acceptable situation, and besides the casualty rates, Katsu had also effectively tied up a large portion of the enemy army.
At Aigun, Russian Gen. Kirill Ostrovsky was fighting a losing battle against a larger, but poorly organized, Japanese defensive formation. The Japanese dispositions were telling, and the Russians were unable to flank or blow through the Japanese lines.
In the 3rd week of January, Ostrovsky was seriously wounded, and forced to hand over command to a less competent subordinate. The battle was done by the 25th – an indisputable Japanese victory, with almost 3:1 casualty ratio against the Russians and the enemy thrown off of Japanese soil at that point (+4.3 WS).
In late January, two battles were underway that were decidedly trending against the Russians, in terms of battle results, though the traditional Japanese lack of staying power was evident at Aldan, where Gen. Tsugumichi Katsura’s troops were about ready to crack from long overuse. There, though, his troops were still inflicting 15 Russian casualties to every Japanese defender lost. The situation at Olyekminsk was much more balanced, with Gen. Taruhito Kuroda holding onto the territory doggedly.
And… Nevertheless, the Russians still stubbornly guarded their pride. They refused another imminently reasonable peace offer. They suggested, instead, a return to the status quo, which astonished the Japanese diplomats enough that they knew not what to say.
At Yakutsk, in the 1st week of February, Gen. Katsura finally was forced to give up the ground due to heavy losses. It hardly made up for the tremendous progress of Japan in this war, though. And it was not the beginning of any trend, either. At Ust Nera, the Russians were again attacking a heavily fortified position, and paying for it.
At Jirim Chuulgan, after the Russian troop levels peaked at 180,000 in December, after a massive buildup, the Japanese had been able to knock that number down to 150,000. Gen. Maresuke Matsudaira was leading his troops masterfully, and the Russians were falling densely, but he knew he was on a time-clock, and wouldn’t be able to keep it up against such a hefty onslaught.
Another struggle was underway at Qiqihar, and it was decided to send the freshest 26,000 troops from the successful battle at Aigun so they could help hold the line there.
Back home, Japan had begun building a fleet of ironclads. She had not yet faced a major naval opponent, but it was felt, especially with Japan building a regional maritime empire, it would only be a matter of time.
In mid-February, Gen. Kuroda continued to beat back Russian assaults at Olyekminsk, inflicting grievous casualties.
Two battles concluded at the end of March or the beginning of April – both were “losses” for Japan, in that they gave up the territory, but in both cases tremendous slaughter had weakened the Russians. They lost nearly 70,000 at Jirim Chuulgan, which was twice the Japanese losses. And at Aldan, a week later, they lost four times as many (16,000 total).
But Gen. Dragomirov arrived just a week and a half later, and the battle at Jirim Chuulgan began anew, with the Japanese hopelessly outnumbered, not to mention outclassed by superior numbers of Russian cavalry and cannon.
By March, Japan was still clearly winning the war with Russia, but the Tsar refused to admit the situation. Diplomats arrived bearing, once more, an offer for peace at the status quo from the beginning of the war, but this was angrily refused. There was no excuse for them not allowing Japan to take the Kuril Islands, except that they somehow wanted to kill more Japanese, or to wait for Japan to become embroiled once more with China, whose truce had expired.
China, for her part, was drawing closer to Japan in terms of the politics of the court, but there remained tensions which could easily spill over into another war. Japan was putting a great deal of effort into luring China into her sphere of influence, in hopes that future wars would be prevented (in apparent ignorance to the fact that she, herself, had thrown off the Russian sphere). Another key target was the Netherlands, which Japan would have to somehow wrest from the influence of Germany.
In terms of world powers, Austria-Hungary remained surprisingly strong, despite her ongoing war with Britain. The lesser Great Powers – Germany, Russia, Japan and Mexico – all seemed mired in the same relationship to one another, just as the top 4 Great Powers did.
In order to truly succeed as an Asian protector, or hegemon, Japan would somehow have to steal a march on one of these powers – knocking them down a notch, and taking their place. The security of Asia demanded it, as predating powers still threatened the independence of Asia.
Repeatedly, through the winter and spring, Japan’s ministers had debated whether or not to press for territorial acquisition from Russia proper, in order to weaken her as a state. It was decided that little would be accomplished – the loss of Okhotsk would not sufficiently harm Russia, in terms of industrial strength or prestige. What effort might be expended there might be better turned toward gaining territorially from the Chinese, with much better result. Also, it was decided that, since possible war with China loomed, it would be best to end the war with Russia as soon as allowed, and take the opportunity to recover men and peace of mind before another war could spark. Okhotsk was left be.
Would Japan be?
Ultimately, in March, it was not continued war victories that cheered the people of Japan – for they, apparently, were worth nothing. It was the showing of Japanese athletes at the 1901 Olympics, who had done an exemplary job in competition with a world which remained – blessedly, and quite unusually – mostly at peace.
Sorry I've been so inconsistent lately -- every day I think I should be writing fiction, to pursue this new goal of mine, but other things, plus the fiction, crowd out the AAR. I can't let that happen, always. I'll get us going again. ____________________________
Once Russian reinforcements reached the beleaguered garrison at Verkhoyansk, in eastern Siberia, Gen. Katsu’s attempt at moving the frontier forward in that region were ended. By the middle of January, 1901, Katsu was forced to withdraw his troops.
By the end of that campaign, the Russians outnumbered the Japanese 36,000 to 6,000. But 11,000 Russians had fallen, compared to only 5,000 Japanese. It was an acceptable situation, and besides the casualty rates, Katsu had also effectively tied up a large portion of the enemy army.
At Aigun, Russian Gen. Kirill Ostrovsky was fighting a losing battle against a larger, but poorly organized, Japanese defensive formation. The Japanese dispositions were telling, and the Russians were unable to flank or blow through the Japanese lines.
In the 3rd week of January, Ostrovsky was seriously wounded, and forced to hand over command to a less competent subordinate. The battle was done by the 25th – an indisputable Japanese victory, with almost 3:1 casualty ratio against the Russians and the enemy thrown off of Japanese soil at that point (+4.3 WS).
In late January, two battles were underway that were decidedly trending against the Russians, in terms of battle results, though the traditional Japanese lack of staying power was evident at Aldan, where Gen. Tsugumichi Katsura’s troops were about ready to crack from long overuse. There, though, his troops were still inflicting 15 Russian casualties to every Japanese defender lost. The situation at Olyekminsk was much more balanced, with Gen. Taruhito Kuroda holding onto the territory doggedly.
And… Nevertheless, the Russians still stubbornly guarded their pride. They refused another imminently reasonable peace offer. They suggested, instead, a return to the status quo, which astonished the Japanese diplomats enough that they knew not what to say.
At Yakutsk, in the 1st week of February, Gen. Katsura finally was forced to give up the ground due to heavy losses. It hardly made up for the tremendous progress of Japan in this war, though. And it was not the beginning of any trend, either. At Ust Nera, the Russians were again attacking a heavily fortified position, and paying for it.
At Jirim Chuulgan, after the Russian troop levels peaked at 180,000 in December, after a massive buildup, the Japanese had been able to knock that number down to 150,000. Gen. Maresuke Matsudaira was leading his troops masterfully, and the Russians were falling densely, but he knew he was on a time-clock, and wouldn’t be able to keep it up against such a hefty onslaught.
Another struggle was underway at Qiqihar, and it was decided to send the freshest 26,000 troops from the successful battle at Aigun so they could help hold the line there.
Back home, Japan had begun building a fleet of ironclads. She had not yet faced a major naval opponent, but it was felt, especially with Japan building a regional maritime empire, it would only be a matter of time.
In mid-February, Gen. Kuroda continued to beat back Russian assaults at Olyekminsk, inflicting grievous casualties.
Two battles concluded at the end of March or the beginning of April – both were “losses” for Japan, in that they gave up the territory, but in both cases tremendous slaughter had weakened the Russians. They lost nearly 70,000 at Jirim Chuulgan, which was twice the Japanese losses. And at Aldan, a week later, they lost four times as many (16,000 total).
But Gen. Dragomirov arrived just a week and a half later, and the battle at Jirim Chuulgan began anew, with the Japanese hopelessly outnumbered, not to mention outclassed by superior numbers of Russian cavalry and cannon.
By March, Japan was still clearly winning the war with Russia, but the Tsar refused to admit the situation. Diplomats arrived bearing, once more, an offer for peace at the status quo from the beginning of the war, but this was angrily refused. There was no excuse for them not allowing Japan to take the Kuril Islands, except that they somehow wanted to kill more Japanese, or to wait for Japan to become embroiled once more with China, whose truce had expired.
China, for her part, was drawing closer to Japan in terms of the politics of the court, but there remained tensions which could easily spill over into another war. Japan was putting a great deal of effort into luring China into her sphere of influence, in hopes that future wars would be prevented (in apparent ignorance to the fact that she, herself, had thrown off the Russian sphere). Another key target was the Netherlands, which Japan would have to somehow wrest from the influence of Germany.
In terms of world powers, Austria-Hungary remained surprisingly strong, despite her ongoing war with Britain. The lesser Great Powers – Germany, Russia, Japan and Mexico – all seemed mired in the same relationship to one another, just as the top 4 Great Powers did.
In order to truly succeed as an Asian protector, or hegemon, Japan would somehow have to steal a march on one of these powers – knocking them down a notch, and taking their place. The security of Asia demanded it, as predating powers still threatened the independence of Asia.
Repeatedly, through the winter and spring, Japan’s ministers had debated whether or not to press for territorial acquisition from Russia proper, in order to weaken her as a state. It was decided that little would be accomplished – the loss of Okhotsk would not sufficiently harm Russia, in terms of industrial strength or prestige. What effort might be expended there might be better turned toward gaining territorially from the Chinese, with much better result. Also, it was decided that, since possible war with China loomed, it would be best to end the war with Russia as soon as allowed, and take the opportunity to recover men and peace of mind before another war could spark. Okhotsk was left be.
Would Japan be?
Ultimately, in March, it was not continued war victories that cheered the people of Japan – for they, apparently, were worth nothing. It was the showing of Japanese athletes at the 1901 Olympics, who had done an exemplary job in competition with a world which remained – blessedly, and quite unusually – mostly at peace.
Look at it from the Russian side: You are facing a seemingly inferior foe, who manages to defeat your armies and occupy several provinces. Of course you would be mad and would not yield an inch. (Even if you are losing)
yeah, I noticed that too. Someone should teach the AI to count to 4.
Aaarrrghh, the endless grind of fighting Russia in the Far East :laugh:
Makes me remember the HOI games where I would think it was a doable proposition :glare:
Since Japan is my next V2 game I think I will take a lesson and try and stay well clear of Russian entanglements if possible...
Hey, maybe the Olympics started in an odd numbered year this year! Glory to the youth of Japan!!!
I heard a joke that's circulating among Russian soldiers, about how a Russian athlete and a Japanese athlete were the only competitors in some footrace at the Olympics. The Russian crossed the finish line in second place, a respectable finish, while the Japanese came in second to last. Just like in this glorious war.
I heard a joke that's circulating among Russian soldiers, about how a Russian athlete and a Japanese athlete were the only competitors in some footrace at the Olympics. The Russian crossed the finish line in second place, a respectable finish, while the Japanese came in second to last. Just like in this glorious war.
It took time to get back home in those days. Around the world in 80 days was incredibly fast. Southern Hemisphere games can run into December, so March of the following year for a victory parade is not that unreasonable. Then there are winter olympics too. They didn't begin till 1924 in OTL but maybe in this game's time line they started earlier.
The event series was buggy in vanilla and AHD, and I'm not sure if its been fixed in HoD, but the timing isn't all that unreasonable.
Hum, Russians dying by the droves, warscore ticking near zero ... so basically nothing new. But the proposal of a white peace means that they are not that far of being willing of parting with a 2% warscore target, so it is just a matter of holding up and continue to kill Russians.
Anyway, good call on not getting more Russia. China is the natural target of any Japanese player in V2, so more infamy budget to get more China is the way to go.
Anyway, good call on not getting more Russia. China is the natural target of any Japanese player in V2, so more infamy budget to get more China is the way to go.
Maybe it's time to change the title to Not-So-Isolationist Japan: Bring It On!. Wrapping up Russia and recuperating is probably a good idea.
Nicely done against Russia. Not sure that my Japan would be able to do so well, but I think my game has been fun (considering it's the first I will have ever finished in 1.2 and 1.3). Looking forward to see how the campaign goes.