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Motoer

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I knw, i knw, mainstream strategy isnt a match for paradox titles. What i want to knw, do i get with Sengoku something deep like victoria 2, hearts of iron or europa universalis.
Lets make a deal, i go with my girlfriend to cinema and you guys write your opinion in here so i can decide after the movie if i buy or not buy.

Thx,

Mr. Motör.
 

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Don't say something doesnt work just because you don't know how to use it.
How do you know he doesnt know how to use it? You just contradicted yourself.

And currently Im leaning more towards Shogun total war. Sengoku is great for super in depth immersion, but its just not as impressive as Shogun. When you play shogun, you really have that "feeling" that this is a massive war game to become shogun. There isn't blobbing and the AI is pretty decent in shogun, and nothing beats the ability to actually fight in the game. And I feel more connected to the characters in Shogun oddly enough...

Sengoku also goes by to quickly for me, most paradox games are slow and manageable, but Sengoku is like holy crap its been 2 years already?
 

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Easily. I have used plotting successfully, so it means plotting works. He says it doesnt work, so should be clear he doesn't know how to use it.

I know how to use my armies to fight other armies, and my army and the enemies got stuck in one province and were at a stalemate for two years, with both sides not losing any troops. Obviously the in game war mechanics must work then because I know how to use them. Doesn't matter if there are bugs or glitches, or unbalancing issues.
 

unperson

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I know how to use my armies to fight other armies, and my army and the enemies got stuck in one province and were at a stalemate for two years, with both sides not losing any troops. Obviously the in game war mechanics must work then because I know how to use them. Doesn't matter if there are bugs or glitches, or unbalancing issues.
Ok so he said 'If plotting actually worked that is.' Saying that plotting doesn't work at all.
But actually I have created several succsesfull plots, was invited by the AI to plots, and also observed AI plots taking down other clans witouth my involvment. I didn't find any bugs about plots yet also I don't see any bug reports about plots yet, if he found any why didn't he post them?

EDIT: saying that plots just don't work is very misleading because they clearly do. If he has some issues with plots he should post them in detail, I'm pretty sure he's doing something wrong or missing something about them.
 
Last edited:

Soulstrider

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Two quite different type of games, I really deslike how people keep comparing TW games with Paradox titles.
 

Nefaro

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Plotting seems to work, that I've noticed. It is pretty difficult woo'ing numerous rival clans into your plot, though, so it's tough to be successful at getting a strong one going.

Most importantly, however, the AI is not shy of using Plots and will utilize them against you and other clans. I gotta commend the guys who did the AI work on this one as it looks to use that unusual mechanic fairly well. I'd like to see what other sneakiness it may be capable of.

To answer the OP:
This game isn't like HOI, EU, and Vic2. While managing your armies and combat will be mostly the same, and some of the same interface features like the map filters are there, the game plays like Crusader Kings Lite. Or perhaps more like an EU Rome VV with more control of the character system by the player. The major features I always find myself concentrating on the most In Sengoku is 1) Getting more income, gold, and honor (currencies); 2) Arranging marriages for good skill bonuses, to ensure the breeders are giving me plenty of courtiers and heirs, getting possible inheritances of rival clan titles, and to get relationship bonuses with other clans through such marriages; 3) Blood and mud, blood and mud (war!); and 4) Plotting, Ninja'ing, and other nefarious means of weakening not only rival clans, but unfaithful vassals and attempting to lure my rival's unfaithful vassals over to join me. This isn't easy at all, but is very satisfying when your intrigues work out.

I think that the game needs more random events, notably character events (with choices) for the player to interact with in a somewhat similar way to Crusader Kings. Right now the player's input into the character system is mostly arranging marriages, bribing, and dishonoring others. More interaction should be added as PI's character system, in their games, is a very strong and unique feature that should be fleshed out as much as feasible. There's definitely more to do in this character system than EU Rome's, so I'm happy with where it's starting from.

The game itself, while having small bugs as most releases do, is quite playable with no huge game breakers. While at first I was a bit hesitant what with the character system being less filled out like CK, I've been enjoying it more and more for all the subtle intrigues it inspires and the overall feel of the gameplay itself. Sure, it needs some tweaking but it's the only thing I've played since I got it, and that says a lot because I'm often playing more than one game on any day.
 
Last edited:

Nemo29

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Quite different games really so not entireley comparible. The combat engine sets Total war apart as sengoku just deals with them in an abstract way, while Sengoku has huge amount more detail on the map front with much more choices there. Both are better at what they focus on.


Side note having loved Rome:Total war and its mods I have to say I was quite dissapointed with Shogun2. Just didnt feel like much had been added in all that time. Graphics might be a lot better but I had to run them on lowest to prevent lag anyway. Also it does not support mods well which is a shame.
 

Dagda

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Quite different games really so not entireley comparible. The combat engine sets Total war apart as sengoku just deals with them in an abstract way, while Sengoku has huge amount more detail on the map front with much more choices there. Both are better at what they focus on.


Side note having loved Rome:Total war and its mods I have to say I was quite dissapointed with Shogun2. Just didnt feel like much had been added in all that time. Graphics might be a lot better but I had to run them on lowest to prevent lag anyway. Also it does not support mods well which is a shame.

To be fair, Shogun 2 has more economic/trade depth than Sengoku, which wasn't what I was expecting and the main reason I'm holding off on purchasing Sengoku until a content patch/expansion. Also the lack of CK-esque character interaction was disheartening.

Shogun 2 really is CA's most polished effort and the battles are amazing, along with the graphics and multiplayer features. My only real complaints are sea combat and lack of character focus.
 

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It always baffles me when people don't want to discuss two games, they say, "they are different, cannot compare."

Well.

Both games are RTS games.
Both take place in the same time period.
Both have over top, map modes where you use armies and move them around.
Both have in-depth diplomacy, and trade. (admittedly, shogun is better at both of these two things.)
Both have character development.

I could go on, they both have a lot of similar features. If it wasn't for the real time battles, Shogun would be pretty much the same game, but with alot less features.

But I have seen that classic argument on many many many forums, and its annoying when people refuse to compare games.
By comparing, you can get ideas, see what improvements could perhaps be added, interface comparisons can be used to develop better gameplay, etc.
 

Nemo29

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Just incase you are referring to my post I did not refuse to compare them, in fact I did just the opposite. Just pointing out not all elements easilly compare in the sense many more things will in say many FPS or traditional RTS games.

To say that combat is as important in Sengoku as it is in Shogun would be silly. I dont think Sengoku focusses on this element nor claimed ever to do so in such detail, plus with dev cycle and at a guess significantly lower budget I never anticipated anything of this sort.

Roles are quite different too in Sengoku you play one character your clan leader only where you manage your clan its members (plus all their wives lol) and ensure your lines succession while expanding. Whereas in Shogun you play everyone from Leader down to general on the battle field to various groups of troops all at the same time. I know all total war games have had the map mode too, but i feel the focus of their work has always been the battle engine.


Fair point on the trade/economic features of Sengoku which are abstract to say the least compared.
 

chatnoir17

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In comparison to the all other games about this period (inkl. the games of koei), the start date is quite different. Paradox could have chosen date around 1550-1560, but they didn't. I think it is a great challenge with some risks, f.e. disappointment of players knowing rather the rate period or lack of informations for the historical setting (remember, CA and even koei didn't make games starting in the Onin war). I prefer their decision, and in this sense, Sengoku is very unique game about Japanese history.
 

damnt512

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  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
In comparison to the all other games about this period (inkl. the games of koei), the start date is quite different. Paradox could have chosen date around 1550-1560, but they didn't. I think it is a great challenge with some risks, f.e. disappointment of players knowing rather the rate period or lack of informations for the historical setting (remember, CA and even koei didn't make games starting in the Onin war). I prefer their decision, and in this sense, Sengoku is very unique game about Japanese history.
i have to say that i'm a bit disappointed that sengoku didn't have starting date at 1550's, because it's the date when many famous battle in sengoku period starts, for example the battle of okehazama, and many great sengoku period leaders shines in 1550's like oda nobunaga. but starting with onin war too is a unique decision because many game dev that develop a game about sengoku preriod in japan always prefer the 1550's starting date
but IMO it would be great if PI would add the 1550's starting date, of course, along with it's historical map and clan leaders
well, it's only a suggestion, not a demand