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darviathar

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I bought HOI 3 the day it was released back in 2009, put about 100 hours into it, and concluded that it was a woefully unfinished product and that I'd give it time to be improved. I'm ready to play a Hearts of Iron game again at this point. I bought Arsenal of Democracy plus Iron Cross, but I find myself missing the realistic command structure that I had in HOI 3. My question is this: Is it pointless to play this without the Semper Fi expansion, and even with it, it is it likely to be more enjoyable than the Iron Cross at this point, going on two years after I last played.
 

impspy

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You can get Semper Fi (its an expansion pack) from Gamersgate or Steam. (maybe more? I'm not sure...)
 

impspy

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I knew there was a list.
 

jaxpac

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It doesn't really "add" things to the game. It is more like the next in a continual progression of eventually getting to an end product that is a highly polished and highly entertaining strategy game along the lines of EU3. They will always add some new "features" so that there is something to hype, but for the most part once they move on to new versions, there is almost no sense in only the base game anymore. I mean unless you were someone who was totally happy with the base game and couldn't find many flaws in it, then you might as well admit from the start that you want to play the finished version of this game and to do that it will mean buying several expansions along the way. Sure I can see why people don't like paying again and again, but as a business model it is like they came to me with a half developed game that I had to pay for and then I liked the beta version so much that I am happily willing to pay them to do further work to finish the game. People complain about it every release but that's how it works. If you've bought the original game (and enjoy it) you might be as well consider yourself all in for the expansions as well.
 

unmerged(68957)

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I already have HOI3. Can I upgrade to Semper Fi, or do I have to purchase the game again?
Where can I get the upgrade?

STEAM. STEAM. STEAM. i highly advise, if you want to avoid the high probability with gamersgate's god awful downloader, to just use Steam.

payed 20 bucks for semper fi, the downloader could never work, and gamersgate blamed it on my internet and firewall, when everything was off, and throughout this computers history, nothing has ever had a problem downloading
 

comsubpac

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STEAM. STEAM. STEAM. i highly advise, if you want to avoid the high probability with gamersgate's god awful downloader, to just use Steam.

payed 20 bucks for semper fi, the downloader could never work, and gamersgate blamed it on my internet and firewall, when everything was off, and throughout this computers history, nothing has ever had a problem downloading

the gamersgate downloader works perfectly.
steam requires a steam version of hoi3 to install semper fi and it causes often problems with the checksum.
 

unmerged(75464)

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It would suit Paradox to only release products which actually were useable - and not half finised.

The products they deliver at the moment would be like selling af computer without a CPU, close to useless.

A long, long time ago they delivered good products from the beginning, but now.... they need to get good competition from a company with decent business morale - any morele seems to do by now...
 

egslim

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It would suit Paradox to only release products which actually were useable - and not half finised.

The products they deliver at the moment would be like selling af computer without a CPU, close to useless.

A long, long time ago they delivered good products from the beginning, but now.... they need to get good competition from a company with decent business morale - any morele seems to do by now...
Name one of their games that was good from the beginning. I can't remember a single Paradox game from way back that wasn't in desperate need for patches initially.

The problem is also with the genre. Grand strategy games have more complexity than pretty much any other genre. Compare HOI3 with an RTS: HOI3 adds espionage, diplomacy, supplylines, a vastly greater number of AI-controlled players and more complex tech and terrain-effects. Greater complexity gives more bugs.
But HOI3 is not merely a grand strategy game, it's an historical grand strategy game. So we expect the game to behave along historically probable lines, which creates a whole new set of issues. Nobody will blame Blizzard for making Chimaeras ahistorically powerful against buildings in Warcraft 3, but we do complain when submarines are more effective against surface ships than they were in reality.
That alone makes it very hard to compare the quality of Paradox' games with those of other companies.

While I agree that HOI3 can use a lot more work, it's unfair to slam Paradox for it. No grand strategy game is ever truly finished, and HOI3 in its current state is already a lot of fun. Especially with mods.

(My main gripe is the UK's convoys travelling through the Med, when at war with Italy. But that's because I know a) it's ahistorical, and b) leads to further ahistorical balances for naval combat. In other words, a maker of fantasy-games would never get that complaint.)
 

podcat

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I bought HOI 3 the day it was released back in 2009, put about 100 hours into it

The products they deliver at the moment would be like selling af computer without a CPU, close to useless.

not really arguing anything, but just to get perspective. most AAA titles that you buy these days are playable for what, 30 hours and most people finish them quicker?
 

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I did pretty much the same as the OP but dropped it alot sooner, In the last month I decided to dowload the 1.4 patch and havent stopped playing it since, The game doesnt run slowly and I seem to be coming up with interesting outcomes everytime I play. If you were used to HOI1/2 definetly give it another go it rocks!

I will be getting the Semper Fi expansion aswell now, after moaning for the last 2 years about the state of the initial release it seems they excelled again.
 

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I would get semper fi, it realy does improve the game and then try 1 of the mods.
I'm using the HPP mod at the moment and enjoying what it adds to an already good game. As for the other mods i don't know i haven't tried them
 

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It's a world of difference. Get SF, get up to speed and soon the game (FTM and a few patches) should be the 200 carat gem it was always intended to be. DiDay mod (also 95% done, give or take a few bugs here and there) also highly recommended.
 

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The one thing that SF is supposed to fix (I don't have it myself) is the AI spamming your fragile supply lines with expeditiary forces, with no way to prevent it.

I can't tell you how many patch 1.4 or earlier games were rendered either unplayable or pointless to continue when the AI did something monumentally stupid, like the last game I played where AI Germany sent 250-300 brigades of expeditiary troops to Italy, to sit idle on the Italian/French border, while Germany itself was struggling desperately in France for lack of units. Eventually,the badly outnumbered German troops were pushed back out of France, and French troops from the Maginot Line broke through the depleted German lines into Germany itself, while the Germans didn't even have enough units on the front to establish a continuous defensive line. Meanwhile, Italy sat nearby with over 100 divisions (mostly German) doing absolutely nothing.

In another 1.4 patch game, playing as Hungary and assisting in the invasion of the SU with about 12 Divisions, which was actually proceeding far too smoothly, Germany suddenly spammed me with over 75 divisions, half of them armored, and all of them dumped squarely onto my fragile supply lines deep in Russia. That effectively stopped my forward units cold, as the stacks of units behind them intercepted and gobbled up every supply that I sent, and far exceeded my ability to produce enough supplies to feed and resupply that many units at that distance from my capital. In short, my national supply stockpile dwindled from 30,000 supplies down to about 2000 in a matter of days, while my front-line units not only stopped dead in their tracks, they ended up dead as soon as the first marginally-effective Soviet units came along.

Hopefully, SF will also prevent the AI from launching hilariously stupid amphibious invasions against distant places that can't be supplied, like Germany invading India, while UK controlled both Gibraltar and the Suez canal, and had decisive naval superiority to prevent convoys from sending regular supplies. As the troops in India starved, and their combat capability decreased, the AI decided that the best solution was to add fresh troops to increase the total combat strength, resulting in still more starving troops. I spotted at least 4 or 5 Transport aircraft flying back and forth across the Balkans and Middle East, attempting to ferry a pittance of rations to the hundreds of thousands of starving Germans. Eventually, right before I quit the game as "pointless", Germany had a total of ONE division left guarding the entire "Russian Front", and about 5-6 divisions in the West. Everything else was stuck, out of supply, in India. Oh, don't forget the frequent amphibious invasion of Finland by Japan.....
 

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It adds more so that mods can work with the game giving much more features than the vanilla game. So it could add around 300 or so hours if you try ICE or HPP.