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Doomdark

Chief Creative Officer
Paradox Staff
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Apr 3, 2000
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It's Thursday, and time for another developer diary. It's short but tasty.

World War II can be seen as primarily being a struggle between three competing ideologies. In Hearts of Iron 3, this is what we model with the Axis, Allies and Comintern factions. Each seeks to establish a New World Order, though exactly what this takes is unclear. In other words, when and how do you "win"? Obviously, the complete destruction of the opposing two factions is a win, but this is an unlikely outcome within the game's timeframe. Now, traditionally, we have not been too concerned with Victory Conditions in our games, preferring instead to let players decide their own goals in typical sandbox fashion. However, wouldn't it be neat if we built this into the system, and let player set Victory Conditions actually affect the gameplay? We think it would, so that's what we have done in Semper Fi.

Diary07_VictoryConditionSelect.jpg

Before you start the game, if you choose to play one of the three great faction leaders (Germany, UK, USSR), you may select which Victory Conditions your faction has. You need to select 15 conditions; these should then guide your strategy during the game, because the significance of your potential victory will depend on how many you have fulfilled. With the right set of conditions and a wise strategy, it might be possible to institute a New World Order without having destroyed the other two factions. Neutral nations cannot set Victory Conditions since they are not involved with the War of Ideologies. So how does all of this affect gameplay, apart from players actually being able to win the game in a clear way? Well, the Strategic AI will be aware of its faction victory conditions, in much the same way that it handles Missions in EU3 (since In Nomine.) In other words, both multi-player and single-player sessions should develop differently depending on the set Victory Conditions. How does this jive with our desire for more historicity? Well, the default Victory Condition choices are the most historical ones, so you only have yourself to blame if you change them!

Diary07_VictoryConditionStatus.jpgDiary07_Victory.jpg

I believe that will have to do for today. Until next time!
 
The victory conditions seems nice.

Really nice actually.
 
What happens when you achieve the conditions - does the game stop ? Or are the conditions to be achieved by a certain time ?


Also I see Operations are part of the conditions. Taking Operation Overlord as an example, how do we know what this constitutes - Does it mean a naval invasion of specific provinces in Normandy, or does it mean an invasion of France... or the opening of a second front in Europe.... what if France wasn't invaded ?
 
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Will the victory conditions for the AI always remain the predetermined historical ones or will it randomize them?

I think you can select the USSR or the UK and change the victory conditions yourself then select Germany and play. At least that is the impression i am getting i could be off by a flaming mile in a frozen Swedish lake...
 
At first glance I was like: meh... there are more serious problems to thinker with... but then I felt some kind of instinctive attraction to the lists. I guess, in the end it will turn out to be a good additional feature. It seems diplomacy will play a bigger role to achieve some of these.

Have these goals victory points assigned to them? To have Luxemburg in your faction is not the same as having Spain... or are the VP still calculated only based on on-map VPs?

In MP-games, can these concealed/shared with other players? To have a totally transparent system have no real meaning in Multiplayer, too obvious or must be disregarded from the start. In case you can hide your goals, it may have an interesting twist instead of world conquest.

Best,

Rog
 
A couple of suggestions:

- Dont make everybody know your goals for free: Make it part of the espionage game to find out, what your enemies are after. Give VCs a ´public´ value, so that some are found out about easier, while other are harder to find out about, while some should be totally public. This approach could be followed as deep as one chooces to: It would even be fun to set the secrecy of your goals yourself, with the need for some publicity deriving from the need to motivate your soldiers. Public goals could also impact diplomacy. But i´d probably draw the line before that, since this could be very complicated to implement right. The AI would simply choose scripted secrecy levels set for each VC.

- In SP, there should be the option to set the VCs for all factions, and a very controlled way to randomize them at will: Say you wanna play Germany, but want to make sure, that the Allies dont have the Switzerland-VC, without knowing what other goals they might have or having to set them. So VCs should be excludable from random choices. Vice versa, they should be forceable in random choices, as well (e.g.:´A,B,C and 12 random VCs, but not Y or Z, please´).
 
Hm. I would also set different values or put few points in one "point".
Having Axis Australia for instance is much harder than annexed China. At least now. Luxemburg is totally meh in this regard, as is very easy to achieve.
Switzerland is slightly harder, but only that - slightly.
 
How will the AI react to a victory condition that is met and then overturned?

(for instance, what if an Allied victory condition such as 'Greece is a member of the Allies' is met and then Greece is subsequently conquered by the Axis? Will the AI be able to choose a new condition?)
 
I have a very nasty idea for the ´total-realism´-hardcore-modder-faction, which involves victory conditions and manpower, which may not be discussed in this forum. You get it, guys, now shush, and get to work, if you like the idea, when FI is out...
 
How will the AI react to a victory condition that is met and then overturned?

(for instance, what if an Allied victory condition such as 'Greece is a member of the Allies' is met and then Greece is subsequently conquered by the Axis? Will the AI be able to choose a new condition?)

I would guess, it would have to liberate greece as a member of the allies.

EDIT: As for the VCs, it´d guess, that each does have an amount of VPs attached to it (hopefully varying) and that if all are met, you win, if you have the (relative) majority of VPs, from conditions and the board combined. Thus making the total VPs attainable from VCs variable and a matter of your choice - you could opt for easily attainable VCs for less VPs from them, if you simply want to stick to ´conquering the world anyways´, or you could select a set of high rank objectives, making them truely the guideline of your strategy, subordinating all else to these stepping-stones to victory.
 
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I would guess, it would have to liberate greece as a member of the allies.
What I'm worried about is that conditions like this will still be true as long as Greece is a Government in Exile, even though they are fully occupied.

Am I the first to spot dynamic map names from Victoria 2 development diarys in the background on screenshot 1? :D
 
If they join one of the big three alliances, they will share its victory conditions.
Seems (at least from what we can see) that there are very few default conditions related to Japan though?

For example Singapore & the capture of Dutch east Indies were very important Axis goals to provide rares & oil.

Fall off China and capture off Pearl Harbour / Panama would be other good goals.