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unmerged(1522)

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Timothy said:
Simply put, there is no necessity for the GA to finish discussion before a proposal is put to a vote [...] Article 19a and b does not dictate [...] discussion of a bill after voting has started, it merely states the requirements for a bill to be valid according to the Constitution. These requirements were met with.

[...]

Mr. Williamson, if you will check the time indexes with me, I think we can clear up our misunderstanding regarding the extention of the voting deadline.
No, there is no necessity to finish discussion before putting a bill to vote, and there is likewise no rule against continuing discussion after that point. Please remind where I've said otherwise. What there *is*, in the very Article 19 that you refer to but seem not to have read, is a constitutional requirement for sufficient discussion before voting - a requirement that you violated. Allow me to quote Art. 19(b): "After sufficient discussion, and once they have been seconded by at least one other MGA, bills need to be put to a vote." I've highlighted the relevant part for your attention, since it appears to have escaped your notice. In the simplest terms, the sequence our Constitution prescribes is "sufficient discussion first - vote second," not your "vote first - sufficient discussion second" variant.

As to your reference to the GA-minutes: curiously, the only date you fail to document is the only date that matters - the Speaker's announcement that the deadline would be extended, made on November 30; you see the problem. Not that it would make a whit of difference if the extension had been announced before the expiry of the initial deadline.

Fred "The Hammer" Williamson
 

unmerged(228)

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Melanchthon said:
No, there is no necessity to finish discussion before putting a bill to vote, and there is likewise no rule against continuing discussion after that point. Please remind where I've said otherwise. What there *is*, in the very Article 19 that you refer to but seem not to have read, is a constitutional requirement for sufficient discussion before voting - a requirement that you violated. Allow me to quote Art. 19(b): "After sufficient discussion, and once they have been seconded by at least one other MGA, bills need to be put to a vote." I've highlighted the relevant part for your attention, since it appears to have escaped your notice. In the simplest terms, the sequence our Constitution prescribes is "sufficient discussion first - vote second," not your "vote first - sufficient discussion second" variant.

Except that this wasn't a "vote first - sufficient discussion second" situation, but, more a "vote first - sufficient discussion second - final vote " situation. So there was no obstruction of "sufficient discussion" by interupting "sufficient discussion" with the voting process.

Melanchthon said:
As to your reference to the GA-minutes: curiously, the only date you fail to document is the only date that matters - the Speaker's announcement that the deadline would be extended, made on November 30; you see the problem. Not that it would make a whit of difference if the extension had been announced before the expiry of the initial deadline.

Fred "The Hammer" Williamson

That particular date refers to a reminder intended for the GA. My agreement with a different deadline dates from 26-11-2004, 21:57. None of the members of the GA shares your confusion about the voting deadline. Everyone understood the nature of the extention of the voting deadline, no announcement was neccesary.

With this, our dialogue ends Mr. Williamson. If we discuss this the next time, it will be in court.

Timothy Wellesford, Term IX Speaker.
 

unmerged(1522)

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Timothy said:
Except that this wasn't a "vote first - sufficient discussion second" situation, but, more a "vote first - sufficient discussion second - final vote " situation. So there was no obstruction of "sufficient discussion" by interupting "sufficient discussion" with the voting process.
Sir,

I'm not sure why you should have such extraordinary difficulty grasping the meaning of the term "after," but given that it seems to be so, I hope you will find the following excerpts from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary of assistance:

"after
preposition
1 following in time, place or order

after
conjunction
at a time which is later than another event

after
adverb
later than someone or something else"

I hope this serves to clear up any remaining conceptual difficulties.

As to my "confusion" about dates: I do have to disappoint you, but I'm actually quite clear as to the sequence of relevant events - regrettably, the same seems not to be true of yourself.

I look forward to your defense of your actions in court.

Fred "The Hammer" Williamson
Speaker of the Senate
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
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After filing the papers at the office of the Attorney General, Loic drops by the Senate offices, to sound out some of the sharper staff he has met there about whether they would consider switching to a MGA staff position, where they could actually have a hand in drafting legislation, not merely studying it when it arrives from the General Assembly. For propiety's sake he does not approach any of Speaker Williamson's staff.
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
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Loic then checks in with the two P4P Senators, Eva Zabor and Chad Hung, to compliment them on their work, to see if they are planning to run for re-election and to encourage them to so, letting them know that the campaign would begin, on an unofficial basis, as soon as they had decided. The party would also work to secure a greater share of government spending in their provinces, if they were running for re-election.
 

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Phalanx said:
O'Floinn arrives at the senate offices, looking a bit exhausted. Arriving at Williamson's office, he asks the receptionist,

"Is the speaker available? Tell him the Attorney General is here to see him."
The receptionist nods the Commissioner towards a half-open office door with a sign that reads "The Doctor is in." Bruce Springsteen can be heard blasting through the crack, the volume dialled up to hazardous levels; apparently, the Speaker is a fan.
 

Erc

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I submit the following bill for consideration to the Senate, after it duly passed through the General Assembly:

Eutopian Pension Plan Reform Act (EPPRA)

Preamble

The Eutopian Pension Plan system, up until the present, has generally followed the ‘Prudent Man’ rule with respect to individual investments, which was prevailing wisdom at the time it was established. This had led to generally conservative investments, providing safe but modest returns. Current worldwide practice in pension fund investment has evolved to follow the ‘Prudent Investor’ rule, where individual investments are reviewed in the context of the entire portfolio, which tends to permit inclusion of certain investments that would be excluded by the ‘Prudent Man’ rule. Additionally, current required contributions do not always permit the pension payments to build up to an adequate level for retirement, requiring supplementary social aid. A feature that would allow some additional voluntary contributions could reduce this problem.

Section I. Control Board

The Ministry of the Environment and Social Affairs (“MESA”) shall appoint the director of the Eutopian Pension Plan (EPP), who shall serve as administrator and chairman of the control board. The control board shall consist of three persons, the director, one elected by the current pension beneficiaries, and one elected by those currently contributing.
(OOC: The director could be RPed by a player character with other two being NPC’s whose votes always cancel each other unless the director is really going off the reservation, in which case the mod’s could intervene. Or if the number of players increases, all three roles could be players.)

Section II. Investment Policy

The Eutopian Pension Plan Control Board is hereby directed to manage investments and instruct hired investment managers to manage investments in accordance with the ‘Prudent Investor’ rule. The control board has the responsibility for setting investment allocations within the prudent investment allocation limits set forth below by the beginning of Term XIII. The board can determine whether to contract with outside investment managers or hire individuals to work for EPP to manage investments.

Section III. Investment Allocation Limits

Foreign 20% to 50%
Domestic (including St. Esprit, Tilapia and any future CAFTA members) 50% to 80%
Active 0% to 30%
Passive 70% to 100%

Equity 30% to 70%
Fixed Income 20% to 50%
Real Estate 0% to 10%
Venture Capital 0% to 10%
Other (Alternative Investments: Hedge Funds, Commodities) 0% to 10%


Section IV. Supplementary Defined Contribution Option

Retirement plan participants may wish to supplement their retirement income by saving more than the required contribution towards retirement. Up to 50% over the required contribution can invested pre-tax, either with EPP or with privately run approved pension plans (“PRAPPs”). Any such investments with EPP will be managed as a defined contribution plan, where the investment returns, net of expenses are credited to the account of the participant, with taxable withdrawals without penalty being permitted starting at age 55, and being required to start at age 75. EPP will establish standards for licensing companies wishing to offer PRAPPs.

For each ducat contributed to an EPP defined contribution plan or a PRAPP in a given year, the participant may direct that up to two ducats of his EPP pension plan contributions can be directed to the same EPP defined contribution plan or PRAPP in that year, with the number of years of service used to calculate the defined contribution reduced by the fraction of the contribution to the defined benefit contribution for that year that was redirected.

If the combined value of an individual’s investments in all supplementary defined contribution plans, including any PRAPPs does not exceed the actuarial value of what the redirected investments (not including the supplement) actuarially would have been worth had they been left in the standard EPP program, then that individual’s supplementary would be liquidated and the funds returned to the standard EPP program. As the supplementary program starts out at least 50% ahead, this would only occur due to relatively poor investment management of the supplementary and redirected investments. This clause assures that poor performing PRAPPs could not lower the individual’s retirement income below the level that would have been provided by standard EPP participation.

Section VIII: Reporting

Audited financial reports and actuarial projections must be published every term.

Budgetary Impact: Negligible
 

unmerged(33865)

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Sep 2, 2004
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Loic de Fourgéres drops by to encourage the two P4P Senators, Eva Zabor and Chad Hung, to vote for the Eutopian Pension Plan Reform Act (EPPRA).
"It was proposed by our MGA Jean Saint Daere, and it figured prominently in our GA campaign. It will help us in the next election if we can point to a promise kept."
 

unmerged(33865)

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Sep 2, 2004
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P4P Party Leader Loic de Fourgéres drops by to speak with ESA Senator and Speaker Williamson.
"Fred, have you seen the press release from the P4P? We have endorsed your candidacy for Senator. I would like to see the Senate take care of the one pending piece of legislation for their consideration, the Eutopian Pension Plan Reform Act (EPPRA). I have already spoken with the two P4P Senators, but I would appreciate it if you could do two things for me. First, please move it along to a vote. It is not like the Senate has had too many other items to consider. Second, I would appreciate it if you could see your way clear to supporting the legislation when the vote is held. It was proposed by my P4P colleague in the GA and it will allow us to show that we carried out on a promise. If you don't support it, it will make it more difficult to convince the P4P voters to support you. I will be giving a speech before the election, explaining our endorsement, and putting favorable spin on the court case I brought against you on behalf of that cabal including a fugitive embezzler from the former UP. The speech will be much more effective if I can cite your aid in getting EPPRA passed."
 

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The Hammer leans back in his chair, which creaks loudly. "All right, we're moving it. It should be no real problem; unlike my reelection. If you can get some people on the street to help me out there, I'll remember it."

-Voshkod, as demi-mod
 

unmerged(10397)

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Jul 27, 2002
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The appointment of Hawkton Tilly, having been approved by the General Assembly with 8 votes cast in favor, is hereby put to consideration by the senate.

Appointment of a Eutopian Commissioner of Justice

In following with the High Court's nomination, Hawton Tilly is hereby appointed to the office of Commissioner of Justice for the United Provinces of Eutopia.

John O'Floinn
Speaker of the General Assembly
 

unmerged(33865)

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Sep 2, 2004
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Former P4P leader Loic de Fourgéres drops by, and first visits Senator Fred Williamson to thank him for sheparding the Eutopian Pension Reform Act through the Senate, and then meets with Eva Zabor and Chad Hung, the two P4P Senators, to bring them up to date on developments.
"Of course you are free to accept or decline, but if you choose to seek reelection, I would expect that you both would be nominated by the UMP or whatever name the party will have then."
Loic thinks about meeting with the UMP Senatorial caucus, but figures it will be better to wait until the party has completed more of its re-organization.