Selling Warships

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Actually countries and its shipyards could be divided in four classes:

1. Countries able to build their own fleets. Great Britain, France, Germany...

2. Countries able to build warships, but needing foreign assistance for high-tech equipment, like Spain or Japan during the last years of the game. Items like rangefinders, for example, were incredibly complex and expensive in the age of Jules Verne.

3. Countries unable to build warships, but able to buy them, like Argentina, Brasil, Turkey or Japan in the first years of the game.

4. Countries unable to build warships and unable to buy them, not even if they had money enough, because no country would sell them to 'savages' and even if some were they wouldn't be able to crew them. For example the Zulu Kingdom, or the Mahdist Sudan.

 

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Indeed, the gap between ironclads and dreadnoughts is massive. Between ironclads and dreadnoughts were battleships, cruisers, torpedo boats, and destroyers.

 

[Vharzul]

Selling ships to other countrys in the game should be thier, and same gose for ordering ships from other countrys because most countrys or less Industrilised countrys or none specilised countrys baught thier ships from others, i.e. before WW1 broke out Turkey baught/orderd several ships from Germany or even during the war!

Hope that option will be in the game!

 

[HJ Tulp]

Originally posted by KonigMaximilian
Selling ships to other countrys in the game should be thier, and same gose for ordering ships from other countrys because most countrys or less Industrilised countrys or none specilised countrys baught thier ships from others, i.e. before WW1 broke out Turkey baught/orderd several ships from Germany or even during the war!

Hope that option will be in the game!

Note: the vessels Turkey ordered we're taken by the Brittish authority. Another thing that pushed Turkey to the Central camp.
This ones very IIRC. There we're two German warships that were sent to Turkey during WWI. They managed to evade the Brittish squadrons, they were sold to Turkey as soon as they arrived. IIRC

 

[peo]

Just to point one thing out about dreadnaught.
She was a battleship.
The thing that made her uniqe was realy the engine, she was the first turbine powered ship of the line. Rivaling the cruisers in speed and with a armanent that was equal to the other battleships.
The turbines was also the reason why she lacked a turret midships as was royal navy tradition at that time.

 

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The game will be seriously deficient if there is no arms trade, ie that military innovations and ships can be bought for cash. The 19th century was after all the great age of the "Mechants of Death".

 

[unmerged(3115)]

I think your description of the dreadnought cheapens her. There were far more to her than just the engine.

 

[Drakken]

Yes, her 30 cm cannons could destroy any vessel of her time with a good broad, except Dreadnoughts of course.

Drakken

 

[unmerged(5367)]

Originally posted by Hardu
The game will be seriously deficient if there is no arms trade, ie that military innovations and ships can be bought for cash. The 19th century was after all the great age of the "Mechants of Death".

And the reason africa was so easily colonised.. and it was arguably a humanitarian effort to save the africans from the Rifle-Empire chaos

 

[CMOTHodad]

Dreadnought wasn't just an old ship with a new engine... it had thicker armour, more of the heaviest guns (it put an end to battleships with an important complement of secondary guns), and, well, obviously, was faster and had more range than her predecessors.

And the later RN pre-dreadnought battleships already sported turbines too, so...

 

[peo]

Originally posted by Belrick
I think your description of the dreadnought cheapens her. There were far more to her than just the engine.

Yes but the engines were the most important part.


And she was the first RN battleship with steam turbines, the first battleship with turbines at all.

The earlier had reciprocating engines.

The guns were not much better than the earlier 2 classes.
The armour was similar also.

Just check this site: www.warships1.com
Click your way to battleships and start comparing.

 

[Pwyll]

Did not Dreadnaughts pre date battleships??

the Hood although a later model Dreadnaught was for all intensive purposes was a dreadnaught at the best and a battle cruiser at the least...The true battleships were more of an item of the second world war not the first.

 

[peo]

Originally posted by Pwyll
Did not Dreadnaughts pre date battleships??

the Hood although a later model Dreadnaught was for all intensive purposes was a dreadnaught at the best and a battle cruiser at the least...The true battleships were more of an item of the second world war not the first.

No.
Dreadnaught was a new type of battleship.
All ships built after HMS Dreadnaugt were "dreadnaughts".
Battleships are classified as either pre dreadnaughts or dreadnaughts.

 

[unmerged(2695)]

What I really, really hope is that the ship sprites will change over time.

And that the US Navy will be painted white.

 

[stnylan]

The size of Dreadnought's guns were not actually that remarkable, other pre-dreadnoughts used the same calibres (and, in fact, to speed her construction she was fitten with 12" guns originally due to a pre-dreadnought). What was exceptional was the number of heavy guns - 10 in total, as opposed to 4.

Her speed was also the other revolutionary aspect of her design. It never really rivalled cruisers - c. 19 kts was its maximum cruising speed whereas cruisers entered the mid 20s with ease. Compared to crusing speeds of 12-14 kts for most of the older battleships.

Her armour is not terribly remarkable, and really is more of just a natural progression rather than being truly remarkable.

Selling ships would be good. Being able to repossess them, or commander them in times of war, would also be great.

 

[peo]

Originally posted by stnylan
The size of Dreadnought's guns were not actually that remarkable, other pre-dreadnoughts used the same calibres (and, in fact, to speed her construction she was fitten with 12" guns originally due to a pre-dreadnought). What was exceptional was the number of heavy guns - 10 in total, as opposed to 4.

Her speed was also the other revolutionary aspect of her design. It never really rivalled cruisers - c. 19 kts was its maximum cruising speed whereas cruisers entered the mid 20s with ease. Compared to crusing speeds of 12-14 kts for most of the older battleships.

Her armour is not terribly remarkable, and really is more of just a natural progression rather than being truly remarkable.

Selling ships would be good. Being able to repossess them, or commander them in times of war, would also be great.

She was revolutionary in the aspect of the turbines.

Stats for the last pre dreadnaught built by the RN:
HMS Agamemnon (Lord Nelson class)

Lenght: 443'
Beam: 79'
Draft: 27'

Full load: 17,820 tons
Propulsion: 15 boilers, 2*triple expansion engines, 16,750hp
Max Speed: 18,6 knots on trials

Protection: side belt: up to 12", turrets: up to 12"

Guns: 4*12"/45, 10*9.2"/50, 24*12pounder, 5 torpedo tubes.

Compliment: 817

Stats for HMS Dreadnaugt:

Lenght: 527'
Beam: 82'
Draft: 26'

Full load: 21,845 tons
Propulsion: 18 boilers, 4 geared turbines, 24,700hp on trials
Max Speed: 22.4 knots on trials

Protection: Belt: up to 11", turrets: up to 11"

Guns: 10*12"/45, 27*12punders, 5*torpedo tubes.

Compliment: 695-773


(oh by the way i rememberd incorectly which ships was the last with midships turret in the RN, it was the Q Elizabeth class)

edit: for comparison in speed the last RN pre dreadnaught cruisers had a max speed of 23 knots.

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Pwyll
This was not in HOI and I doubt it would make it to Victoria...You can give all of the weapons in the world to the natives but they are still not the KGL or the Coldstream Guards...unless you can differentiate between Equipment and training...

Unit experience levels would be needed for that...

 

[steveh11]

Originally posted by peo
(oh by the way i rememberd incorectly which ships was the last with midships turret in the RN, it was the Q Elizabeth class)

I don't think so, Q. Elizabeth had 8x15"...it was the first of the Battlefleet to have 4 twin turrets (as against the Battlecruiser Fleet).
I think the last class designed for the RN with a midships turret would have been Iron Duke. Not sure which was the last commisioned, may have been Agincourt?
Steve.

 

[peo]

Originally posted by steveh11
I don't think so, Q. Elizabeth had 8x15"...it was the first of the Battlefleet to have 4 twin turrets (as against the Battlecruiser Fleet).
I think the last class designed for the RN with a midships turret would have been Iron Duke. Not sure which was the last commisioned, may have been Agincourt?
Steve.

No.
Both the iron duke and agincourt had turrets midships.
Ironduke 1 turret and agincourt 2.

 

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This is a very good idea, Johan Jung! I think it should definitely be built into the game.

You are right: The Japanese ships that were in Battle of Tsushima were made in foreign countries, mostly Great Britain, Japan's ally. The Kasuga and Nisshin were made in Italy.

Should this kind of feature only be for ships? Or should one be able to demand other things too, such as technology perhaps?