Sell me on the Season Pass

[Exemplar Voss]

Well, personally for me, the big thing making me pass up the 'season pass' is Flashpoint offers nothing that I want. The bits they've shown off actually look pretty bad to me (more artificial challenge to bolster the difficulty and late game problems, and 'target acquisition' seems even more clunky). 3 mechs I can happily pass on. And I'm unclear if skipping the base game is actually a real feature, and if it is part of the paid DLC or not. If it is, it's the only aspect I'm interested in, as the campaign is the worst part of the game.

Urban warfare sounds much more interesting as a concept, but is very vague at this point (though that is normal), and feels sort of like a pipe dream at the moment (I'm not entirely convinced the game engine can handle what I envision when I hear the words 'urban warfare').

 

[Jade_Rook]

I'm unclear if skipping the base game is actually a real feature, and if it is part of the paid DLC or not.

Do you mean the new Career mode which removes the campaign? That will be available as part of the free 1.3 update. Flashpoint is not required for Career mode.

The value of each expansion will be different for everyone. If what the DLC includes doesn't interest you, don't buy it.

 

[Ken-Sw]

The 20% off sale on the season pass is over.

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

@Jack Ryan said: Expansion three is probably Critter Tech. Perhaps even a Far Country expansion, lol.

Now i´m sure i made the right call buying the season pass

 

[Timaeus]

- Combined arms such as aerospace assets, infantry, artillery, and defensive emplacements/minefields have still not been included.

Just so we're clear: none of the things listed here were promised to be included in the Kickstarter, and only infantry was mentioned in the Kickstarter as something that was being prototyped to see if would make it in for inclusion, but did not make it.

 

[SQW]

Just so we're clear: none of the things listed here were promised to be included in the Kickstarter, and only infantry was mentioned in the Kickstarter as something that was being prototyped to see if would make it in for inclusion, but did not make it.

Off screen assets were mentioned quite prominently at the beginning of the dev diaries and through out Q&As and wasn't removed until somewhere around the 9th Q&A I think. There are still placeholder files for artillery etc in the folder too. Their exclusion from the release version were most likely due to running out time rather than not fitting with game design during prototyping so naturally, the backers who have been following BT from the start will look at these cut features (like the Raven and EW) as something to be included back in after the game has been released for free.

Right now, a lot of backers are still expecting certain things cut from BT to be patched back in. While off-screen assets isn't a listed feature in the KS, HBS should still release a statement to clarify the situation rather than making these people think they'll be getting features that are not coming anymore.

 

[stjobe]

the backers who have been following BT from the start will look at these cut features (like the Raven and EW) as something to be included back in after the game has been released for free.

Raven and EW, sure. The other stuff, not so much. Just because the devs mentioned playing around with stuff they wanted to incorporate into the game doesn't make it a promise that they will be able to, and certainly not something to be expected to be given away in a free update.

While off-screen assets isn't a listed feature in the KS, HBS should still release a statement to clarify the situation rather than making these people think they'll be getting features that are not coming anymore.

The features you mention (off-screen artillery, infantry, etc) were never promised, they were never cut from the release game because they never made it that far. So why would anyone expect to be getting these features except as new, paid-for content?

 

[2fisted]

The 20% off sale on the season pass is over.

Arrrg! Darn it, I missed it.

 

[Martello]

Earlier in this thread Shadowrun was mentioned a number of times. I don't want to derail too much, but is there a good place to ask for more info on the status of that property?

 

[stjobe]

Earlier in this thread Shadowrun was mentioned a number of times. I don't want to derail too much, but is there a good place to ask for more info on the status of that property?

I don't really know what you mean by "status", but as far as I know Microsoft holds the electronic license to it (as well as other FASA titles, HBS licenses it from them), and Topps holds the rest of the IP.

 

[Martello]

I don't really know what you mean by "status", but as far as I know Microsoft holds the electronic license to it (as well as other FASA titles, HBS licenses it from them), and Topps holds the rest of the IP.

I thought HBS bought it back. I must be misremembering from the two Kickstarters, which I backed. My real question was if HBS/Paradox planned on making any more SR games. And if there are any forum threads anywhere discussing those possibilities.


To stay on-topic: personally I agree with some of the Flashpoint criticisms, even though nobody has actually played the expansion yet. 30 hours of new gameplay, sure, but it's not 30 hours of a new campaign. It's 30 hours of more of the same stuff, with some visual variations. Yes, theres a new mission type. But the TAG mission definitely seems silly to me, though it might be fun in practice. The new mechs are cool, especially the Hatchetman. Career Mode is a nice addition, which I of course realize everyone gets for free.

But all that being said, I still bought the Season Pass. Why? Very simple. I really enjoy playing this game. Therefore, I'm willing to buy even a relatively mediocre expansion because it will be MORE of what I enjoy. And Urban Warfare sounds legitimately awesome, if done right. I've been with HBS since Shadowrun Returns (tying it all together ) and I trust them to turn out content I will enjoy.

Plus, I have games in my Steam Library that I've literally never played even once, so it's not like I'm making some weighty financial decision here.

 

[SQW]

That reminds me, how is HBS gonna balance the 2nd and 3rd DLC content for people who have and have not purchased the Flashpoint? If I remember correctly, vanilla wouldn't be able to run linked missions (not even mods?) so Urban Warfare content will have to be balanced independently with both vanilla AND flashpoint. Then there's that third DLC...

 

[Martello]

That reminds me, how is HBS gonna balance the 2nd and 3rd DLC content for people who have and have not purchased the Flashpoint? If I remember correctly, vanilla wouldn't be able to run linked missions (not even mods?) so Urban Warfare content will have to be balanced independently with both vanilla AND flashpoint. Then there's that third DLC...

Maybe there will be synergy, like additional Flashpoints that need both DLCs. So if you buy just Flashpoint, you dont get the Urban stuff. If you buy just Urban Warfare, you don't get flashpoints. But if you buy both, you get all the content of both DLCs as well as urban flashpoints.

 

[gruese]

While I immediately bought the season pass, and I do think Flashpoint is going to open up a lot of things for the future, I think some of the criticism voiced here is justified, and it's worth being discussed without disparaging anyone.

I think it's true that the late game is relatively stale, and that assault mechs are still pretty much always going to be the bees knees, unless artificially prohibited using tonnage limits. To HBS's credit, they have been working on the late game specifically with Flashpoints. I've said it in another thread: They've created a foundation for a lot of content to be created in the event and flashpoint framework, but that content isn't there yet.

Me, I'm still excited about the future.

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

While I immediately bought the season pass, and I do think Flashpoint is going to open up a lot of things for the future, I think some of the criticism voiced here is justified, and it's worth being discussed without disparaging anyone.

I think it's true that the late game is relatively stale, and that assault mechs are still pretty much always going to be the bees knees, unless artificially prohibited using tonnage limits. To HBS's credit, they have been working on the late game specifically with Flashpoints. I've said it in another thread: They've created a foundation for a lot of content to be created in the event and flashpoint framework, but that content isn't there yet.

Me, I'm still excited about the future.

I honestly don't think there's a solution to late game outside of just restarting the game. That's one of the big reasons I'm excited about career mode: it literally solves that in the most straightforward way possible by making it easy to just restart the game and get back to the lovely early to mid-game puttering around the Periphery.

 

[Martello]

While I immediately bought the season pass, and I do think Flashpoint is going to open up a lot of things for the future, I think some of the criticism voiced here is justified, and it's worth being discussed without disparaging anyone.

I agree 100%. And as I've said already, I really enjoy the game.

I think it's true that the late game is relatively stale, and that assault mechs are still pretty much always going to be the bees knees, unless artificially prohibited using tonnage limits.

To me, the way to solve this is to use tonnage limits in a different way. Get rid of the 4-Mech limit. I don't know what drives it, and I'm not a programmer, so there could be a great reason why it's in place. But I'd love for it to be gone. Then make drop tonnage something you can raise over the course of the game with Argo upgrades (another Leopard maybe?) so you can go from a lance restricted to four mediums, to a lance of four assaults OR two lights, a medium, and two assaults, OR four lights, a heavy, and an assault...etc. I'm sure the math doesn't really work on those, I'm just spitballing to get the point across.

That would make lights and mediums useful through the end game.

 

[gruese]

I honestly don't think there's a solution to late game outside of just restarting the game. That's one of the big reasons I'm excited about career mode: it literally solves that in the most straightforward way possible by making it easy to just restart the game and get back to the lovely early to mid-game puttering around the Periphery.

Well, I've given this one a lot of thought. My opinion is that there are two ways to reduce staleness: You can either tell additional stories, or you can vary the gameplay by introducing either new mechanics (high effort) or restrictions on existing mechanics (quick win). Lo and behold, HBS are actually creating the Flashpoints framework to tell stories and introduce additional constraints. To me, this shows that they've understood what ails the late game, and they are prioritizing their work to alleviate some of those problems.

Now, you can criticize them for their priorization and call for them to focus on other things (like new mechanics, say infantry & artillery), but I think you have to at least acknowledge that there is a reasonable plan and they're following it. And I'm not talking about "you" as in you here @ThatGuyMontag, but the general "you" as in all of us.

 

[stjobe]

Get rid of the 4-Mech limit. I don't know what drives it, and I'm not a programmer, so there could be a great reason why it's in place. But I'd love for it to be gone.

There's no programming constraint. The limit is part of a design goal to keep combats manageable in terms of length and complexity. 4 mechs keeps a deployment under 30 minutes. The experience during prototyping was apparently that 4 mechs also represented something of a sweet spot in terms of managing complexity.

Perhaps there weren't any programming constraints three years ago, but there sure is now. Refactoring the code to include more than four 'Mechs is tantamount to making a completely new game - one that has a very different set of design goals than the one we're playing right now.

For one, the 30-min matches would be history, we'd be looking at 2-3 hours per deployment. For another, the UI would need to be completely overhauled, and every detail of the sim game rebalanced. The opfor generation would need to be expanded and extended as well as the map generator. And lots and lots of other details - as I said, completely different game.

Of course it's possible; it's just not likely (or easy, or cheap).

Disclaimer: I do earn my living as a programmer. Not games, but large complex server-client software.

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

Perhaps there weren't any programming constraints three years ago, but there sure is now. Refactoring the code to include more than four 'Mechs is tantamount to making a completely new game - one that has a very different set of design goals than the one we're playing right now.

For one, the 30-min matches would be history, we'd be looking at 2-3 hours per deployment. For another, the UI would need to be completely overhauled, and every detail of the sim game rebalanced. The opfor generation would need to be expanded and extended as well as the map generator. And lots and lots of other details - as I said, completely different game.

Of course it's possible; it's just not likely (or easy, or cheap).

Disclaimer: I do earn my living as a programmer. Not games, but large complex server-client software.

See, sometimes it's absolutely great opening your mouth when you're wrong because there's always the chance someone who knows a thing or two who can step in and put you right.

Thank you @stjobe.

 

[Martello]

Perhaps there weren't any programming constraints three years ago, but there sure is now. Refactoring the code to include more than four 'Mechs is tantamount to making a completely new game - one that has a very different set of design goals than the one we're playing right now.

For one, the 30-min matches would be history, we'd be looking at 2-3 hours per deployment. For another, the UI would need to be completely overhauled, and every detail of the sim game rebalanced. The opfor generation would need to be expanded and extended as well as the map generator. And lots and lots of other details - as I said, completely different game.

Of course it's possible; it's just not likely (or easy, or cheap).

Disclaimer: I do earn my living as a programmer. Not games, but large complex server-client software.

Hmm, yeah I did think of some of that stuff too. Especially the UI being overhauled, though I suspect things could just be squished a little, or a double bottom bar. Deployments taking longer wouldn't bother me personally, but that's just me and I do remember a 30-minute match being a major design goal stated in the Kickstarter. Maybe it could be something for a future expansion or Career mode? I'm not sure I'd call it a completely different game, though. Sometimes you face 6 OpFor 'Mechs at a time; why couldn't it be 6 of yours and 8 of theirs etc? Same game, just a lot more of it and a lot longer missions.

You certainly make valid points, but I think it would be worth exploring.