Seleukid empire vs Kingdom of Babylonia etc

[DreadLindwyrm]

I'm talking about a west-east split od equals: Roma-Constantinopolis, not about a south-north split.

Britannia would be the name of a usurper breakaway state there. And then Hispania, Gallia, Oriens, Africa, etc. All based on regions, in contrast to the central imperial west-east authorities: Roma, Constantinopolis.

If the game allows for other splits than Roma- Constantinopolis, I don't have any suggestions, other than that more generically Constantinopolis would be replaced by Oriens. And still Hispania, Gallia, Oriens, Africa, etc. So regions instead. But then the name Roma stand out, in terms of consistency.

What are your own suggestions?

And what if the peaceful, deliberate split was a north/south one, not an east/west one?

Calling the ERE effectively just "East" isn't brilliant either.


I'm not sure what I'd suggest overall. There needs to be something sensible so that if you get a situation like the WRE/ERE split where **both** were Rome and the split was a deliberate administrative decision, there needs to be a way to reflect that without effectively downgrading one to being known just as a province of the Empire, as would be the case if the spun off state was "Hispania" or "Britannia", and so that the name is accurate (a "Britannia" that contains Britannia, Hispania, and the Gallias isn't really that accurate). It also needs to be systematic, and applicable to *any* large empire that splits in that fashion.

The flag is easier. Make a couple of different coloured versions, so there's a red Roman banner, a Tyrian purple one, and a deep blue one. That allows a three way split without too many problems, and maybe allows for them as short-lived revolted flags as well. The same principle could be applied to the other likely large empires.

Possibly there could be something to try to detect where the split empires lie in relation to each other, and to give them a directional designator, although this could (and probably would) fail if either splits again. I don't know how effective or complicated this would be to code for, since I don't know if there's a function for "this state is in X direction from this other state", or how that would be coded for.

 

[AKronblad]

And what if the peaceful, deliberate split was a north/south one, not an east/west one?

Calling the ERE effectively just "East" isn't brilliant either.


I'm not sure what I'd suggest overall. There needs to be something sensible so that if you get a situation like the WRE/ERE split where **both** were Rome and the split was a deliberate administrative decision, there needs to be a way to reflect that without effectively downgrading one to being known just as a province of the Empire, as would be the case if the spun off state was "Hispania" or "Britannia", and so that the name is accurate (a "Britannia" that contains Britannia, Hispania, and the Gallias isn't really that accurate). It also needs to be systematic, and applicable to *any* large empire that splits in that fashion.

The flag is easier. Make a couple of different coloured versions, so there's a red Roman banner, a Tyrian purple one, and a deep blue one. That allows a three way split without too many problems, and maybe allows for them as short-lived revolted flags as well. The same principle could be applied to the other likely large empires.

Possibly there could be something to try to detect where the split empires lie in relation to each other, and to give them a directional designator, although this could (and probably would) fail if either splits again. I don't know how effective or complicated this would be to code for, since I don't know if there's a function for "this state is in X direction from this other state", or how that would be coded for.

Oriens is "the East", right?

I believe the name Roma/Rome then needs to be revisited. Maybe it works until a deliberate split of equals occurs, but if such split needs to accomodate for several possibilities (and not only Constantinopolis/Constantinople), then it will be weird to keep the name Rome/Roma. So once such split occurs, both the original nation and the new nation need to have names that are consistent with each other. And again, if there is a second and third split. Maybe referring to East, North, South, and West after all, in addition to Central or something.

It's extremely tricky to find a generic solution that fits all possible outcomes. Not only name wise, but also script wise.

 

[Salaman Der]

If I were a developer then one of them would be treated as a breakaway state (if a civil war then who started it, if on succession then to the second heir, etc.) and be given a randomly generated name and flag, or preferably one dependant on the region that they are in. For example if like in history a civil war breaks out in Rome where the aggressor is based in Gaul then the new state would be called "Gaul".

I would give it a random tag, like Z002 and a name generated based on the ruler's name, like Postumian Kingdom (for the Gallic breakaway of the III century AC), or Sertorian Kingdom / Senate / State (for the iberic breakaway of the I century BC) or Eumenean Kingdom (for the Successor State of Eumenes in Cappadocia), I don't know if it's possible, but it would be definitely nice.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I would give it a random tag, like Z002 and a name generated based on the ruler's name, like Postumian Kingdom (for the Gallic breakaway of the III century AC), or Sertorian Kingdom / Senate / State (for the iberic breakaway of the I century BC) or Eumenean Kingdom (for the Successor State of Eumenes in Cappadocia), I don't know if it's possible, but it would be definitely nice.

And if it's a republican breakdown? Or if it's a deliberate split akin to the 4 Emperors solution of Rome? Would it make sense to have a "Caesarian republic" if he broke away with Gaul and it settled into a senatorial republic?

Dynamic tags should work (I think that's how the colonial nations in EU4 work), it's just lining them up with sensible names and flags that can be difficult.

 

[Salaman Der]

And if it's a republican breakdown? Or if it's a deliberate split akin to the 4 Emperors solution of Rome? Would it make sense to have a "Caesarian republic" if he broke away with Gaul and it settled into a senatorial republic?

Dynamic tags should work (I think that's how the colonial nations in EU4 work), it's just lining them up with sensible names and flags that can be difficult.

These are all my opinion and I don't know if they can be handled by the engine.


-A republican breakdown would reflect, by name, on the dominant party/ideology
for example "Optimate Rome" or
"Optimate Rome" VS "Popopulares Rome" if is a simmetric break, with an event that change-tag the surviving one name back in "Rome" when the other is destroyed (not necessarily by the other part)
-I would treat a split like the one of the 4 Emperors in the quoted way, the proper "regent" (Galba) would take the name "Rome" or "Roman Senate", the other would be "Otonian Kingdom" or "Otonian Roman Kingdom", "Vitellian Kingdom" and "Vespasianan Kingdom" until only one of the split kingdoms remains, it then get the name of "Rome".
-A 4-way split in a republican way, would go in the same way, but party-based. Republican split were led by individuals but were defined by party appartenence. The followers of Marius weren't really all huge fan of Marius, but all of them were Populares.



"Would it make sense to have a "Caesarian republic" if he broke away with Gaul and it settled into a senatorial republic?"
This is actually an interesting what-if, But given who Caesar was it would make more sense as "Caesarian Dictatorship", different form of government.
But, it's actually what Sertorius did in Hispania. He put up a roman state that used roman structures and a proper Senate "in exile", recruiting locals and training them as legionaries.