Sectors: very improveable but now they are functional for me

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Malecord

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Admittedly my first game I was meh.

But on my second game I'm happy with sectors. I just changed the way I organized my empire: core worlds for energy and mineral and sectors for research.

Previously I was using my core worlds as research centers and delegate to sectors resource creation. This though is necessarily inefficient for multiple reasons.

First: if you taxate resources from sectors early they don't grow. And Early game resources are more important than research.

Second: energy or mineral negative balances are critical situations that you want to resolve quickly. Research instead decifit is something less critical that is perfectly fine to resolve in the long term. Sectors don't react fast to these situations, they actually don't react at all since they have their own balance. So I prefer to have resource production (especially energy) under my direct control. I know when I want to build a new fleet so I know when it's time to invest in energy. The AI doesn't.

Third and most important point: mineral and energy production in sectors is inherently inefficient. Think to this scenario: you have a perfectly developed sector in late game. Now: it's late game. You have multiple XX K fleets to maintain. So you consume a lot of mineral and an outrageous amount of energy empire wide. Your sector instead is fully developed so it doesn't consume any minerals and it consumes a little energy, it just have huge surplus for you to taxate. But you can taxate max at 75%. Everything the sector produce in addition to that goes wasted once the sector coffers are full. Very frustrating: simplifying an energy point produced in the sector is a 0.75 point in the empire. Research instead is never wasted: a point produced in a sector is a point produced in the empire. It's much better to make them focus on research instead.


So what I did in my second game is just the opposite: all the sectors I create I don't taxate them. I make them focus on research and I use one of my core worlds for minerals and the others for energy. Add some adjustments like manually build solar panels on all sector spaceports I found out this scales really well. I only start to taxate sectors when they are very big and very developed, basically when I see that they have big surplus of resources.

Eventually there will be a point when sector coffins are full and resources go wasted anyway. But this will happen later and the amount of resources wasted is smaller.

Not saying sectors are fine. I'm just sharing a different approach then the one I usually see recommended on these forums.
 
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Eldoran

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Yeah I see that with many complains here. The main problem isn't that the mechanic isn't working well enough -though there sure is room for improvement- but that the complainer doesn't play well or doesn't understand the mechanic well enough for him to utilise it appropriate.
I use sectors as you and I never felt they would do a too poorly job.
 
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RabidRabbit6

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I can see sectors being tolerable for players who prefer the set-and-forget school of not looking too closely at how the game works. Perhaps then you can overlook how

1) Observation outposts functionally vanish inside sectors.

2) Sector AI actively defies any existing planet setup involving buildings that don't directly generate resources.

3) Sector AI has zero concept of resource-biased pops like slaves and robots.

Yes, I can see people calling sectors "functional" as a black box that eats up systems and spits out some steady stream of resources, nevermind how badly the underlying mechanics get mangled in the process.

[edit] "the complainer doesn't play well or doesn't understand the mechanic well enough for him to utilise it appropriate." - it's really the opposite, people who are fine with the current sector mechanics probably haven't looked close enough to see the rot.
 
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Wizzington

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Yeah I see that with many complains here. The main problem isn't that the mechanic isn't working well enough -though there sure is room for improvement- but that the complainer doesn't play well or doesn't understand the mechanic well enough for him to utilise it appropriate.
I use sectors as you and I never felt they would do a too poorly job.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.
 
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Mr Drone

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Yeah I see that with many complains here. The main problem isn't that the mechanic isn't working well enough -though there sure is room for improvement- but that the complainer doesn't play well or doesn't understand the mechanic well enough for him to utilise it appropriate.
I use sectors as you and I never felt they would do a too poorly job.

And often that people learn to work around issues or get used to them. Like, for example, I no longer mind that in all of my games my engineering research is extremely high.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.


BTW, will Clarke fix observation posts no longer being adjustable if they're in a sector?

I'd love to get into some more anal-probing.
 
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Dr. B

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I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.

Good to know.
Do you think Clarke will be available today or tomorrow?
 

SlyEcho

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I find that the sectors work, more or less. I can give an example from my current game.

I had two sectors, both set to science. 75% tax, redevelop on, ignore resources on. Energy income was barely positive, minerals +100, science +170 each.

Then I got declared on by two neighboring alliances. I was getting energy drain as my fleet was now moving around. I decided to switch one sector to energy and the other to minerals.

The war was long and my fleet barely survived the initial onslaught. But I kept building more ships throughout and was able to white peace one alliance and utterly demolish the other.

Income after the war: +100 energy, +250 minerals, +140 science each. All the while my fleet was over two times bigger. So the sectors were able to re-tool the economy and help me win the war without me having to do any micromanagement on my part.
 
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Malecord

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I can see sectors being tolerable for players who prefer the set-and-forget school of not looking too closely at how the game works. Perhaps then you can overlook how

1) Observation outposts functionally vanish inside sectors.

2) Sector AI actively defies any existing planet setup involving buildings that don't directly generate resources.

3) Sector AI has zero concept of resource-biased pops like slaves and robots.

Yes, I can see people calling sectors "functional" as a black box that eats up systems and spits out some steady stream of resources, nevermind how badly the underlying mechanics get mangled in the process.

[edit] "the complainer doesn't play well or doesn't understand the mechanic well enough for him to utilise it appropriate." - it's really the opposite, people who are fine with the current sector mechanics probably haven't looked close enough to see the rot.

Man... you got it wrong. I'm not saying sectors are fine as they are in any way. But until the patch the game works as it works now. I'm just trying to make the best out of it. And so I shared how I'm able to play effectively at least on hard difficulty so that maybe I can help other people enjoy the game until the patch comes out.

I see on the forum all people recommend to use core worlds as research centers. I tried and it didn't go well. I changed approach and now I'm at a point where I've out-researched fallen empires, I don't had to ever join a federation or an alliance in any part of the game, I own a quarter of the galaxy and vassalized another quarter and late game crysis did not occur yet.

In my humble opinion sectors are at least "functional" if they allow me to play successfully like this.
 
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GloatingSwine

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I've noticed that if you give sectors enough resources and time, they will evetually produce tolerable outcomes, and I'll agree with the OP on some points.

How I sectors:

1. Core worlds should be the best energy producers. Worlds where you can get a lot of adjacency boni on energy tiles that you can run Betharian plants on.

2. Don't ever put sectors on Industrial focus. By the time you have any number of planets in sectors minerals should be a solved problem. Even on any other focus sectors will poop out enough minerals anyway if they're respecting tile resources. Financial or Research focus.

3. Keep your sectors fed. Periodically check sectors and make sure they have ~5000 minerals minimum. It's only going to get wasted because your central storage is capped otherwise.

4. Give sectors just enough space energy to run everything in their space. They'll sort out their planets themselves with the energy tiles they get.

5. Any system which contains space resources which is not required to link two sector worlds should not be in a sector.

6. Any empire unique building without a direct resource output wants to be out of a sector, the sector AI won't man it. Any planet unique without a direct resource output also won't get manned until the planet is full. Learn to accept that that Paradise Dome isn't going to do its job until the planet is full (hopefully patches in the AI will fix this).

7. Tax your sectors at 75% once they've got one or two developed worlds, you're feeding them minerals and they only need the barest amount of energy stockpile to deal with tile blockers on new worlds you drop on them.

8. Right now, there is no point having more than one sector. One gigasector can be enhanced by a single high level governor.
 
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Gaussia

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I was sceptical against sectors. Then I hit 200 world and realised that they are essential. This does not mean that there implementation is very good, there is a lot to do with them, but if the game aims to be "perfect" then a really good implementation of sectors are the way to go.

I hope that the developers:
- Improve sector AI and managment so that they perform well and arn't a big disadvantage.
- Expand with new mechanics making the interaction with them more interesting (sectors have there own agendas/goals, loyalty, autonomy and so on).
 
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Azmodael

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I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.

I actually rather like Sectors as a concept. Clicking building updates gets tedious very quickly. There are, however, some inherent flaws, outside of bug fixing, that should be adressed.
  1. Sector energy waste. Since sectors can only spend energy on tile clearing and you can tax energy at 75% at some point of the game the sector will max its energy bank and start wasting the rest, while at the same time you desperately need energy to keep your fleet in action. This is stupid. There is no such issue with minerals, since sectors will keep updating buildings and use them effectively.
  2. Sectors don't know how to build robots or optimize POP traits at all. Not sure if they even use slaves properly, havn't played a slaver yet. Yet they will not allow me to build the robots myself. Also sectors don't seem to build any of the unique buildings on their own.
  3. Colony ships built by sectors are invisible - aka not shown on the short menu on the right.
  4. Updating spaceports and building fleets in sectors is a pain in the arse. Why cant we just open the Empire>Planets menu and right click for ports on the right side, but we are forced to select each planet individually and open that menu all over again and again?
  5. Why is no auto ship building mechanics? It would be amazing if you could just tell a sector "Build 10 x Shrike Corvettes for me please".
 
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Merak

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I actually rather like Sectors as a concept. Clicking building updates gets tedious very quickly. There are, however, some inherent flaws, outside of bug fixing, that should be adressed.
  1. Sector energy waste. Since sectors can only spend energy on tile clearing and you can tax energy at 75% at some point of the game the sector will max its energy bank and start wasting the rest, while at the same time you desperately need energy to keep your fleet in action. This is stupid. There is no such issue with minerals, since sectors will keep updating buildings and use them effectively.
  2. Sectors don't know how to build robots or optimize POP traits at all. Not sure if they even use slaves properly, havn't played a slaver yet. Yet they will not allow me to build the robots myself. Also sectors don't seem to build any of the unique buildings on their own.
  3. Colony ships built by sectors are invisible - aka not shown on the short menu on the right.
  4. Updating spaceports and building fleets in sectors is a pain in the arse. Why cant we just open the Empire>Planets menu and right click for ports on the right side, but we are forced to select each planet individually and open that menu all over again and again?
  5. Why is no auto ship building mechanics? It would be amazing if you could just tell a sector "Build 10 x Shrike Corvettes for me please".

1. 4. 5. has been adress in the latest Youtube video there is some plans for those making them better. 3 i would think is a bug and 2 i dont want them to build robots as i dont want a rebellion on my hand (to avoid spoilers)
 

Tim_Ward

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There are a lot of problems with sectors, and what the OP says is more of a work around to the problems rather than a solution.

That said, I think a lot of the more hyperbolic complaints are clearly from people who are unhappy with the very concept of sectors and want to micromanage everything themselves using the (very real) issues with them to attack the concept itself.

Though, given the response to the sector DD, I'm a little surprised that they seem to have had so little attention paid to them. You'd think given how uneasy the concept made some people that they would have been, like, "people are basically on board with sectors, but very uneasy about the concept: we absolutely need to make sure sectors are working as well as possible before release"
 

thErgonomic

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I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.
Does Clarke change how sectors deal with unique buildings like the Hyper-Entertainment Forum and Monument to Purity?
 

Ariphaos

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I don't think that's entirely fair. Sectors definitely have issues right now, and while the 'sectors are literally 100% useless' claims are dumb and hyperbolic, we *did* introduce some rather unfortunate bugs into the sector AI near release that Clarke should address.

Did this perhaps involve a drastic change to how food worked?
 

GloatingSwine

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Sectors are OK if you're willing to just accept whatever they produce and get on with it.

Though they clash a bit with the emphasis the tech system places on efficiency.

I've found that they love them some labs.

Even on financial focus they'll tend to fill spare squares or surplus food squares with labs after a while.

They won't match their labs to science tile boni mind. Which is endlessly infuriating for OCD reasons.

Had absolutely no trouble keeping up in science with lots of sector planets and core planets mostly devoted to energy (or ringworlds full of stuff the AI would have paved over)