Sector System Is Wet Blanket

[Warhammer]

Sectors also don't upgrade the capital building nor build them... I conquered a pre space age colony and immediately gave it to a sector and it didn't even bother to build the capital building just went straight to building primitive farms

That is the one of the key issues honestly. Game wants us to use sectors, fine, i'll do that. Colonise 3-4 planets (size 8-16) in a nice safe corner of my empire, make them a sector and go forth and prosper right? Wrong. What happens is that the AI will build buildings, Fine. Unfortunately they build the wrong buildings on the wrong tiles (aka power on a food tile) Not so fine. Then after the population grows larger to even 10, they don't even upgrade their capitals, meaning while the rest of the empire/core worlds are at tier 3-4 buildings, they are still at tier 1.

The argument I keep on seeing in this thread is that sectors are there to 'balance' the human player and allow him to get factions. My opinion is in the current iteration of the sector ai, they are there not for 'balance' but to outright 'sabotage' the human player currently by being very sub-optimal. In Hoi 2-3, give control of an army to the ai, point it in the right direction and watch it let rip. in CK2 your demesne vassals will happily build themselves up while paying taxes and providing troops. in EU 3 and 4 same thing, vassals will happily grow while paying their dues. Right now in Stellaris, the sector AI does not know how to 'grow' itself unless you pump in tons of energy creds and minerals. Then it will hit a 'equilibrium stage' and you can start taxing them but the amount you get back depends on your luck (aka how well the AI built up the planets). If you leave them to their own devices and put zero tax, it takes them forever to even build up.

There are some people who say its OCD people who want to micro or min-maxers who want to game the system that are the crybabies. I totally disagree with that as if the sectors and their AIs were working properly as they were supposed to (managed well and helpful, upgrading their capitals and other buildings in turn, plus giving you all the strategic resources and other things) No one would complain at all and this thread would hardly exist. Less micro is Always good if its a minor efficiency trade-off but if like it is right now, you have to micro just to get it to work. This is well explained by many previous posters in this thread.

Pssst, for those who think sectors currently are working 100% properly and its just the players moaning, please change the following in your defines LUA from

CORE_SECTOR_PLANET_CAP = 5
SECTOR_CAP = 2

to

CORE_SECTOR_PLANET_CAP = 1
SECTOR_CAP = 5

Please report back after you have gamed for a few hours, thanks (less micro right ? )

 

[Zorromorph]

And I don't think the AI is using sectors, I might be wrong

FYI, according to Wiz, they do.

What's also pretty bad is, I can't tax sectors higher than 75%.

That's weird, I could have sworn in one of the vids it let them take it all. Totally agree here, should be able to do 100% if you can do 0/25/50/75. You still should be able to take resources out(possibly for an influence/happiness hit).

 

[-Marauder-]

FYI, according to Wiz, they do.

According to Wiz the sector system is also working, the population shuffle, not upgrading capital buildings and various other bugs disagree. Look I like that guy because of the Blorg streams, he's dorky adorable in a way but I'm rather skeptical after probing the sector system. If I poke it with a stick and a bunch of bugs skitter out that's kinda where I'll end up.

That's weird, I could have sworn in one of the vids it let them take it all. Totally agree here, should be able to do 100% if you can do 0/25/50/75. You still should be able to take resources out(possibly for an influence/happiness hit).

Once I go above 75% it seems to reset to 25% immediatly. And why an influence/happiness hit? Sectors aren't seperate entities. They're subsidaries. It's like a CEO alloted a certain ammount of money to a branch of the corporation he's running for maintenance, workers pay and so on. At the end of the day they have money left they didn't use as the projections for their costs were too high. They don't get to keep that, they don't get to hoard it, it goes back to central.

 

[Zorromorph]

And why an influence/happiness hit? Sectors aren't seperate entities. They're subsidiaries.

Because a centralized government always pays a price for raiding an outlying province. You're taking away resources that either A) you gave them or B) they produced on their own. Such things should have a cost. Not a huge one, but a cost nonetheless, IMO.

 

[AmpsterMan]

I don't know why, but I seem to be doing okay with the AI sectors. At first I didn't really understand what they were doing, but now I think I have an idea. Basically, they'll not build anything until the whole planet, or a large portion of it, has been filled with pops. (My guess is that they wait for the resource tiles to be filled first). Afterwards, they'll focus on whatever focus you have for them; that is, if you have financial focus, they'll build power plants on un specialized tiles, if minerals, mines, etc. Regardless of whether you have ignore tile bonuses on or not, they'll end up redeveloping those tiles if they feel they need something. Usually, they'll end up building over food because after some time, you don't need it anymore. They'll try to at least be a little positive on minerals or energy even if you didn't tell it to focus on that. Military spending seems to make them build space stations.

Note, one thing I do is have only my capital under my core sector. I have over 50 planets and only 4 sectors between them, one with 3 planets, the others with 15 plus planets. They don't seem to have penalties for doing this, and one could presumably just put every other planet in your empire under another sector. This seems to help with them getting enough resources to make upgrades. Over all, after I played with them a bit, they seem to be working fine for me.

 

[craftomega]

I have made a thread in the suggestion forum, if you want to see this fixed post your thoughts on how to improve sectors there.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/merge-sectors-and-vassals.929136/

 

[Warhammer]

According to Wiz the sector system is also working, the population shuffle, not upgrading capital buildings and various other bugs disagree. Look I like that guy because of the Blorg streams, he's dorky adorable in a way but I'm rather skeptical after probing the sector system. If I poke it with a stick and a bunch of bugs skitter out that's kinda where I'll end up.

Keep on poking, use a sharper stick or something scarier if necessary. The more we know about where and how it goes wrong the better. Once that's then then we can purge it with fire, along with the bug-lovers

 

[Zorromorph]

Basically, they'll not build anything until the whole planet, or a large portion of it, has been filled with pops.

That hasn't been my experience. I've seen the build buildings on a planet with like 2 out of a dozen usable tiles filled with pops, before the pop was ready for it.

Good thoughts otherwhise, thanks. I don't think they are working 'fine', I'm just not ready to say ditch the whole thing. I want them fixed -- then we'll see what we have.

 

[CuddlyKitten]

How much of the problem is because the sectors cant pay for the things they need? My 5 colony system has problems paying for the 350 upgrade if it doesnt save for a year or so. I imagine a backwards sector would have to save for decades. Even saving up for basic buildings could be harsh.

If so acute resource deficency could also make it do weird things.

If so then what the sector system needs is:
- The ability to lock important buildings which the ai can never scrap and must keep a pop on.
- the option to give sectors a development fund which they spend on infrastructure.
- sectors showing up in the outliner.
- better handling of slaves (option for no slaves, aliens only, own species only). Just making them have slaves on all mines and farms should be enough.

I can totally see it being a wreck if you take a new colony with a farm and 3 pops and make it a sector. Especially since resources in systems are rarely balanced.

 

[AmpsterMan]

That hasn't been my experience. I've seen the build buildings on a planet with like 2 out of a dozen usable tiles filled with pops, before the pop was ready for it.

Good thoughts otherwhise, thanks. I don't think they are working 'fine', I'm just not ready to say ditch the whole thing. I want them fixed -- then we'll see what we have.

With regards to buildings, I've seen them do it if they have a large surplus of materials not doing anything. This isn't a problem actually because any materials sectors stockpile are of no use to the main empire. Sectors pay out there tax to you before getting to work, so If sectors have so many resources that they can afford to pre build, its not usually too bad of a thing because the opportunity cost for holding on to those resources are so high.

The one thing i would like to see sectors do is build planetary defence buildings like the shield generator and such. Perhaps that's in the military focus.

How much of the problem is because the sectors cant pay for the things they need? My 5 colony system has problems paying for the 350 upgrade if it doesnt save for a year or so. I imagine a backwards sector would have to save for decades. Even saving up for basic buildings could be harsh.

If so acute resource deficency could also make it do weird things.

If so then what the sector system needs is:
- The ability to lock important buildings which the ai can never scrap and must keep a pop on.
- the option to give sectors a development fund which they spend on infrastructure.
- sectors showing up in the outliner.
- better handling of slaves (option for no slaves, aliens only, own species only). Just making them have slaves on all mines and farms should be enough.

I can totally see it being a wreck if you take a new colony with a farm and 3 pops and make it a sector. Especially since resources in systems are rarely balanced.

Sectors can already be gifted materials. I prefer to run the harshest tax scheme so that i can redistribute tax income. I think the four focus boxes just tell the AI what to build in squares with no resources and in food squares once you are full. As for robots and slaves, i am yet to see it make any of its own accord but it usually does a good job at allocating them correctly.

 

[Annik0r]

No. You have to remove the planet from the sector, upgrade everything, put it back into sector.

i liked sectors, but when i just noticed this! i feel like...
i have over 40 planets in sectors, and now i can remove them all (for cost of 25 influence) and do this?
that is so much clicking....
(THEY SAID SECTORS WILL REDUCE THE MICROMANAGMENT VALUE) *madrage*
and like 1000 influence cost....
+ the cost for the upgrade...
not cool! really NOT COOL

 

[Zyrica]

In my opinion sectors is a beautiful way to introduce natural corruption.

Imagine you where to rule a empire that stretched over more then 5 planets. Naturally you would need to delegate, naturally they would not be as good as you at it. I see it as a game implementation for corruption and I much prefer it over % corruption increase dependent on distance form capital or such.

 

[-Marauder-]

In my opinion sectors is a beautiful way to introduce natural corruption.

Imagine you where to rule a empire that stretched over more then 5 planets. Naturally you would need to delegate, naturally they would not be as good as you at it. I see it as a game implementation for corruption and I much prefer it over % corruption increase dependent on distance form capital or such.

Actually, given we have FTL travel and communication the distance isn't all that great anymore. Also a lot of this can't be put down to "corruption", stuff like shuffling around the population while ignoring enslaved ones is just completely pointless and breaks its back.

 

[Oscot]

Actually, given we have FTL travel and communication the distance isn't all that great anymore. Also a lot of this can't be put down to "corruption", stuff like shuffling around the population while ignoring enslaved ones is just completely pointless and breaks its back.

jefferson Davis says whaaaaat?

 

[Zyrica]

Actually, given we have FTL travel and communication the distance isn't all that great anymore. Also a lot of this can't be put down to "corruption", stuff like shuffling around the population while ignoring enslaved ones is just completely pointless and breaks its back.

I agree there are some fixes needed to sectors. Mainly synth/slave pop handling and starports/ship handling. But the general concept is fantastic in my opinion.

 

[-Marauder-]

I agree there are some fixes needed to sectors. Mainly synth/slave pop handling and starports/ship handling. But the general concept is fantastic in my opinion.

The idea behind it, outsourcing micro management and such is but the way it currently works especially with the bugs? Not so much. Simply allowing for more player influence in some areas might already help.

 

[Baleur]

Strategic resources are not empire-wide?
Can't believe that, lol.
So that means that in my current game, my empire will never, ever, have any more strategic resources than the 1x Betharian Thing in my core worlds borders?
Yeah, makes sense.... I can spend effort and risk my entire empire in huge wars to gain territory over other resources, but i dont actually get to utilize them.
Completely illogical. Must be a bug. Please, Paradox, tell me that is not intended..

 

[dragoon9105]

I don't really understand why you can't pop into the various sectors and clean up the planets at a later occasion. Paying 25 Influence to pull out a system, fix it and put it back in is beyond annoying due to having to open up the Sector menu, then go into the system and fix it, then go back into the Sector Menu to put it back in. Its not like there needs to be an influence sink, Edicts, Leaders and Vassal integration serve that purpose just fine.

 

[Netrum]

I am sure this will all be sorted in a patch.
And this explains why my sectors do not produce much of anything.
Going to have to disband my sectors one planet at a time...
And that is going to be a problem with one certain system were i have 4 colonies :S...

 

[Serenity84]

So that means that in my current game, my empire will never, ever, have any more strategic resources than the 1x Betharian Thing in my core worlds borders?
Yeah, makes sense.... I can spend effort and risk my entire empire in huge wars to gain territory over other resources, but i dont actually get to utilize them.

You get to use them in their own sector