As a side note, I tried this alteration suggested by BjornB, and all it does is make the game ctd after loading. So maybe not such a great idea.
Sector System Is Wet Blanket
- Thread starter evilness
- Start date
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Excuse me if this has been mentioned before. I haven't read the whole thread.
What if the AI isn't upgrading because it can't? Where does a Sector get its resources? It doesn't use the Minerals or Energy Credits of the empire. It only has its own at its disposal and those are taxed by the empire. If the upkeep of an upgrade puts a Sector at negative Energy Credits, it doesn't upgrade.
What if the AI isn't upgrading because it can't? Where does a Sector get its resources? It doesn't use the Minerals or Energy Credits of the empire. It only has its own at its disposal and those are taxed by the empire. If the upkeep of an upgrade puts a Sector at negative Energy Credits, it doesn't upgrade.
I'd say it's a bit more complex.
If the sectors were less buggy, less punishing and less jarring (the "I can't manage more than 5 planets even with the help of 5 governors, but I can put everything but these 5 planets in a sector and then a single person can manage easily 150 worlds" is really grating), I'd be happy to play by the rules.
If the Empire was divided into sectors, and all sectors had to obey the same rules, and they were actually giving benefits instead of being a forced punishment, it would be a fun gameplay addition.
If the sectors were inherently logical with the government workings (requiring a whole lot of more mechanisms and interaction between sectors and government types), it could feel natural and part of the game.
As they are now, a barebone "feature" which is all negative, a buggy mess in how it works, unclear of purpose, and a pain to manage, sure they will probably be modded out by a lot of people.
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I'e been watching this thread for a while now, everyone has some valid points, though unless I've missed it, my issue hasn't come to light.
It's a rather simple issue. On the Planets screen, scroll down to the sectors and you have two buttons to send that specific sector 100 Minerals/Energy Credits, I use this all the time as it helps the AI construct things, Obviously. As much as I love those two buttons, I personally don't want to have to keep checking back to see how much resources my sectors don't have. The majority of the time I'm busy managing my fleet, core planets, checking what my neighbors are doing, prepare for war, etc... That I often forget to check them for a good while.
All I want is something to be added that lets each sector have a configurable minimum and maximum cap value that automatically deposits resources into said sector. I usually like keep them between 500-1000 Minerals and Credits just to make sure they have some.
The majority of the time I'm capped out of those resources anyway and the AI will make better use of them than I will. (Hopefully)
If I run low in my personal space vault of those resources, I want to be able to stop the transactions to those sectors for a short while, until I get to a point in time where I'm sitting pretty and I can then resume giving them back those resources.
It's a rather simple issue. On the Planets screen, scroll down to the sectors and you have two buttons to send that specific sector 100 Minerals/Energy Credits, I use this all the time as it helps the AI construct things, Obviously. As much as I love those two buttons, I personally don't want to have to keep checking back to see how much resources my sectors don't have. The majority of the time I'm busy managing my fleet, core planets, checking what my neighbors are doing, prepare for war, etc... That I often forget to check them for a good while.
All I want is something to be added that lets each sector have a configurable minimum and maximum cap value that automatically deposits resources into said sector. I usually like keep them between 500-1000 Minerals and Credits just to make sure they have some.
The majority of the time I'm capped out of those resources anyway and the AI will make better use of them than I will. (Hopefully)
If I run low in my personal space vault of those resources, I want to be able to stop the transactions to those sectors for a short while, until I get to a point in time where I'm sitting pretty and I can then resume giving them back those resources.
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So would the best method be to basically build up the 'core world' and once you've built everything you need, hand it over to sector command.
Pop bonuses shouldn't matter too much, so long as the planet it developed well enough surely?
On that note, sounds like when you create a sector you'd ideally want the planet to be somewhat self-sufficient (or the sector to be self-sufficient) or you'd suffer basically. (I've not had a game where I've had to use sectors yet, my galaxies seem to dump me in places where I can't expand without throwing out some serious outposts!)
Pop bonuses shouldn't matter too much, so long as the planet it developed well enough surely?
On that note, sounds like when you create a sector you'd ideally want the planet to be somewhat self-sufficient (or the sector to be self-sufficient) or you'd suffer basically. (I've not had a game where I've had to use sectors yet, my galaxies seem to dump me in places where I can't expand without throwing out some serious outposts!)
The basic principle behind sectors as a mechanic is sound. One of the reason is to remove micromanagement and also to remove one of the most important reason why so many 4x games fail, which is that a human player will always be more efficient than the AI so it will make the AI a bit more competitive.
You are not cheated from not being able to do anything you couldn't do in the first place. The game is not about micromanaging dozens if not hundreds of planets.
You can also bet that the sector mechanic WILL be expanded on in the future to include many more interesting ways to interact with them.
Adding options is NOT a good thing, every option must still be balanced into the main game... better to leave it for mods. They have also said that removing sectors is NOT going to happen, fixing them is on the agenda though.
Sectors also build construction ships and they will build mining and research stations, I have even had them build listening posts over worlds with less advanced species, although I have to decide what to do with them.
I also can see some better tools for building fleets and moving around science ships in the future.
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I've been wondering about this too. If I have my 5 planets all set up nicely, then make a sector out of them, will the A.I. rearrange things?
Its a .lua file. Regular notepad/text editors cant properly save the file and if you attempt to, the file gets corrupt. Use notepad++ or some other similar software to edit it.
EDIT:-after a reinstall or atleast, copy the backup copy of the file first
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Wondering now if this is all related to the hotfix deployed today, but anyway, I downloaded Notepad++ and will try it later. Though I don't recall this being an issue when I did interface mods for WoW, which also used .lua files...
I should add that I have the same problem when I try to use steam workshop mods.
so, i have an empire with 50 planets now.
Sad that the most features of the game that i really party on are only aviable on 10% of my empire now.
managing Slavery (on the 50 worlds i have i can only do it on 5)
general Pop managment (on the 50 worlds i have i can only do it on 5)
Building and fine tune my planets economy (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Fine tune my pop happyness and factions on planetary level (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Migrate my pop to other planets (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Managing robot pops (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
so if you empire grows you lose alot of the features wich could make space great again.
Im now in a federation and i cant do alot Diplo stuff now, since im not the fed lead for like 60 years now with 7 fed members, this where the best moment to fine tune my managment on the planets, but i can do it only on 5 of my 50.
so the lategame feels like just watching the time passing by until i can make some wars.
(to conquer worlds where i than cant use on of the above features)
or waiting until vasalls are integrated (to get "control" over worlds where i than can not use the above features)
at all you could just remove the above features at all, would not be a big impact to the gameplay actually.
it just not feels like "my" empire, its just a chunk of worlds that i once conquered and colonized that now belongs to something where i cant interact with.
its not like that war is THAT much fin un stellaris, rushing homeworlds and planting armys is not that exiciting after a while.
you really need to to something, the sector mechanics as there are now destroying the game.
Even if the AI would working well, i would prefer to manage stuff by myself if i want, specially now where im just waiting.
Sad that the most features of the game that i really party on are only aviable on 10% of my empire now.
managing Slavery (on the 50 worlds i have i can only do it on 5)
general Pop managment (on the 50 worlds i have i can only do it on 5)
Building and fine tune my planets economy (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Fine tune my pop happyness and factions on planetary level (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Migrate my pop to other planets (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
Managing robot pops (on the 50 worlds i can only do it on 5)
so if you empire grows you lose alot of the features wich could make space great again.
Im now in a federation and i cant do alot Diplo stuff now, since im not the fed lead for like 60 years now with 7 fed members, this where the best moment to fine tune my managment on the planets, but i can do it only on 5 of my 50.
so the lategame feels like just watching the time passing by until i can make some wars.
(to conquer worlds where i than cant use on of the above features)
or waiting until vasalls are integrated (to get "control" over worlds where i than can not use the above features)
at all you could just remove the above features at all, would not be a big impact to the gameplay actually.
it just not feels like "my" empire, its just a chunk of worlds that i once conquered and colonized that now belongs to something where i cant interact with.
its not like that war is THAT much fin un stellaris, rushing homeworlds and planting armys is not that exiciting after a while.
you really need to to something, the sector mechanics as there are now destroying the game.
Even if the AI would working well, i would prefer to manage stuff by myself if i want, specially now where im just waiting.
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It's probably been said already, but an ability to set 100% tax rates please.
An ability to borrow without intent to repay, even at a heavily taxed rate, from sector energy/mineral storage.
Sectors in large empires almost require you to give up Admiral/General slots for those sweet, sweet governor bonuses.
I'm at 70/725 and have only a 17 leader cap. You can guess where this is going, massive sector reorganization with a specific focus to save leader slots since this doesn't scale when your empire does.
An ability to borrow without intent to repay, even at a heavily taxed rate, from sector energy/mineral storage.
Sectors in large empires almost require you to give up Admiral/General slots for those sweet, sweet governor bonuses.
I'm at 70/725 and have only a 17 leader cap. You can guess where this is going, massive sector reorganization with a specific focus to save leader slots since this doesn't scale when your empire does.
Not only sectors needs to work more logically and consistently (I can not repeat it enough : there is no logical reason, and lots of reasons ranging from immersion to balance, to have sectors having the same size limits as core worlds, and both growing steadily with the overall size of the empire), but they also need a whole redesign so there is an entire part of the game being targeted at DEALING WITH SECTORS.
As of now, as the poster two posts above describes, sectors are just REMOVING stuff to do (with all the negative baggages they bring with them on top of that). On the other hand, without sectors you quickly ends up with 30 to 50 worlds to manage, and that's just a nightmare for anyone not WANTING micro-management from Hell.
I'd like sectors to be TOOLS for managing easily whole, well, sectors of my empires, a layer of abstraction where I can give general instructions to be carried (that's basically what delegation is about, right ?) without having to deal with each details, BUT not to the point it's just about hamstringing me and having tens of systems basically disappearing into a black hole.
Paradox needs to make a massive redesign of sectors, both making them much more "core" to the gameplay, making them actually functional, and expanding what you can do with them so that it becomes part of the game instead of an afterthough.
As of now, as the poster two posts above describes, sectors are just REMOVING stuff to do (with all the negative baggages they bring with them on top of that). On the other hand, without sectors you quickly ends up with 30 to 50 worlds to manage, and that's just a nightmare for anyone not WANTING micro-management from Hell.
I'd like sectors to be TOOLS for managing easily whole, well, sectors of my empires, a layer of abstraction where I can give general instructions to be carried (that's basically what delegation is about, right ?) without having to deal with each details, BUT not to the point it's just about hamstringing me and having tens of systems basically disappearing into a black hole.
Paradox needs to make a massive redesign of sectors, both making them much more "core" to the gameplay, making them actually functional, and expanding what you can do with them so that it becomes part of the game instead of an afterthough.
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Threads like these created things like nerfed-to-hell rebellions in CK2. The sector system could use some optimization but it's overall a nice and welcome addition to the game.
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This.
My sectors are doing just fine at building up their areas including fully upgrading spaceports to my current maximum level. Just make sure they have enough energy to pay to keep stuff working. The only really complaints I've had thus far:
1) influence costs stop sectors cold-I agree with the person who suggested having the governors ask permission to access the materials they need on a case by case basis. So when Utopia wants to upgrade from the 5 pop to 10 pop capital they gather the rest of the required materials then ask if they can have the 100 influence to do so. Allow a 3 stage response-yes (give them the influence, must have available), no (nope, don't ask again), later (will wait 5 or 10 years then ask again).
2) special resources-could probably do something similar with these although you may end up with power plant message spam, alternatively allow construction of special resource and empire-unique buildings (only) on planets in sectors (and keep the ai from wrecking them even if you allow re-development).
3) sectors interfere with minor race interactions
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I agree, these are IMPORTANT things to fix, they are outright bugs and not features that need balanced or rethought... and I'm sure the AI suffer from them as well in some form, not just the players.
Quite amusing to read this thread and the OP, since when I and other people a couple of months back argued for players being able to choose between implementing sectors and doing our own micromanagement, we got severely butchered by a lot of Paradox/Stellaris fanboys longing for the sector mechanics... 
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I kind like the sector mechanic. It just need more tools so we, the players can guide Ai to do what we want or at least fix their mistakes without having to remove the planet from the sector to do it.
The AI will never be able to min-max and will never be good enough to manage the planets alone without making the player crazy.
But a AI can totally work as a helper if we have the tools to tell the AI exactly what we want.
Its just the tools we have now are too simple. We can´t tell the AI what we want and the sectors are too often, so diverse tjat those 4 buttons (to focus on 1 resource) will never work and do nothing useful.
The AI will never be able to min-max and will never be good enough to manage the planets alone without making the player crazy.
But a AI can totally work as a helper if we have the tools to tell the AI exactly what we want.
Its just the tools we have now are too simple. We can´t tell the AI what we want and the sectors are too often, so diverse tjat those 4 buttons (to focus on 1 resource) will never work and do nothing useful.
I had the same CTDs when I used regular Notepad to do it.
Ended up just using Wordpad, and saved with a .lua extension to the file name, that worked for me.
It's really hard to keep up with all the feedback coming in. The forums is going crazy at the moment
If you have specific ideas I would be super happy if you could post these in the suggestion forums and try to keep each thread focused on certain features. Thank you all for taking your time to post feedback.
The way the AI handles sectors might not be optimal, so I suppose this is the first thing to address.
Doomdark has been spending quite a lot of time thinking of how to improve the concept overall. I'll let him talk about that himself when he feels ready.
You did open Pandoras box though. This title has so much potential so I can understand the critic/suggestions because there's a gazillion of things that can be done different or better (not to say there's not awesome mechanics already in there).
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An option to choose between sectors or no sectors before the campaign starts would be nice
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