Sector Fleets and other sector stuff

[Kiwibaum]

I got an Idea that may make sectors more interesting and helps avoiding this annoying fleet building in sector menue thing.

Sectors space stations no longer contribute fleet capacity to your main fleet instead they are used for the sectors own fleets which you can controll dierectly, but not merge into your main fleets. You don't have to pay dierectly anything for those fleets they are completely maintained by the sectors ressources (which wont get to you then, so you still will be missing those ressources).
The sector uses your templates for building ships and you can influence their unit composition in the sectors menue or let them build completly free.
This would reduce annoying micromanagment.

To make this more interesting there could be a revolt in a sector who decided that he became strong enought to become an own empire or to be the central sector basically taking over your empire (possible change of government and ethics included). Other sectors may even take side for this sector instead of helping you so you would have to make sure to not let single sectors become to strong, sectors are not hating you and/or making sure sectors hate each other more than you.

Sectors would need to have some form of relationship between each other and possible prefered ethics/governments.

This could tie into the new upcoming factions system where a sector can be "owned" by a faction or have a predominant faction.
Governors could also be made more interesting by having ethics/factions which would influence the sectors by a large extend.

This would make sectors far more interesting to me and nerf large empires since they have to deal with a lot more innnerpolitical stuff and thus become more instable. Sectors would no longer be just the annoying thing that is there so the player does not have to micromanage a million worlds.

What do you think? Would it work? What could be made better?

 

[MinerSebas]

I am still undecided, but this propossel would also reduce the Problem of doomstacks. Ist still possible to move them together, but it ist also more annoying.

 

[Nostalgium]

I've been contemplating this as well. As you say, it'd reduce micro, but also give Sectors something to do with all those massive resource stockpiles they end up sitting on. It would also make the military focus more useful, as you could instruct your border sectors to maintain large fleets in combat-readiness, rather than the lacklustre fortification efforts the focus currently makes them undertake. If the sector fleets are also somewhat autonomous, it could also serve to make the game feel less doomstack-y, as even if the sectors organize their own fleets into doomstacks themselves, at least there'd be at least several in each empire.

 

[GC13]

This idea is all kinds of terrible. Sector fleets only make sense in-universe as defensive, but for gameplay would have to function just as vassal fleets.

Also, core worlds are incredibly outnumbered by sector worlds. Since core worlds are no richer than sector worlds, how would a player use military force to keep the sectors in line?

 

[Lothmar]

I mean it would put a lot of pressure off the player on having to run several fronts of a war by letting the sectors do defensive war by guarding your borders while you had the main fleet out fighting.

 

[Kiwibaum]

I am still undecided, but this propossel would also reduce the Problem of doomstacks. Ist still possible to move them together, but it ist also more annoying.

I don't think that this would be a good sollution for doomstacks and is not intended to be, a solution for this would be the possibility of small to medium sized fleets to deal heavy long lasting eco damage if let alone but that is another discussion which is hold in a ton of other threads and by this exaustivly discussed .

This idea is all kinds of terrible. Sector fleets only make sense in-universe as defensive, but for gameplay would have to function just as vassal fleets.

Also, core worlds are incredibly outnumbered by sector worlds. Since core worlds are no richer than sector worlds, how would a player use military force to keep the sectors in line?

I don't think the sector should controll the fleet, rather the player should otherwise it would result in just another sector fleet as you say. The only times the sector should use those fleets himself is if he turns against you (or if the govenour is a coward and the sector is threatened or something like this ) in my opinion.

I mean it would put a lot of pressure off the player on having to run several fronts of a war by letting the sectors do defensive war by guarding your borders while you had the main fleet out fighting.

I don't think it would be very usefull to have sector fleets that are only defensivly that would turn a huge amount of your fleet to defensive only in large empires and by that would make wars between even empires very turtlly and boring. It would be great for slightly smaller empires tho since the enemy would have to attack with only a part of his fleet.

 

[Kat Tsun]

This idea is all kinds of terrible. Sector fleets only make sense in-universe as defensive, but for gameplay would have to function just as vassal fleets.

Also, core worlds are incredibly outnumbered by sector worlds. Since core worlds are no richer than sector worlds, how would a player use military force to keep the sectors in line?

Isn't that the point?

If you need to keep squashing rebellious governors, consider fixing the things they're complaining about.

 

[praftd]

The last thing I'd want is less control over my fleets.

 

[Kat Tsun]

The last thing I'd want is less control over my fleets.

They already control construction ships.

What's adding combat ships going to do to your control over them?

 

[praftd]

They already control construction ships.

What's adding combat ships going to do to your control over them?

The player's fleet cap is going to be hilariously small due to being limited to core systems, meaning the vast majority of your fleet is going to be built by the AI.

I am extremely particular over my fleet size and composition.

 

[Kat Tsun]

The player's fleet cap is going to be hilariously small due to being limited to corr systems, meaning the vast majority of your fleet is going to be built by the AI.

I am extremely particular over my fleet soze and composition.

Why would it be "hilariously small"? Why would it affect empire fleet cap at all? If Federations have separate fleet caps why can't sectors?

 

[praftd]

Why would it be "hilariously small"? Why would it affect empire fleet cap at all? If Federations have separate fleet caps why can't sectors?

"Sectors space stations no longer contribute fleet capacity to your main fleet instead they are used for the sectors own fleets"

The VAST majority of your fleet cap come from non-core worlds. Making it so sectors no long provide fleet cap to you means I'm forced to delineate almost all of my military actions through sectors.

So by late game my fleet cap might be around 250 while the combined sector fleet cap would be 1000+. No thanks.

Federations do have seperate fleet caps, but they are optional and allow for the player to decide if they want to provide their fleet for the cause.

Being forced in every single game to give your fleets to sectors would be annoying.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Yet it can be accomplished without modifying empire fleet cap in any way whatsoever.

Just give them a separate fleet cap modified based on population or something, which is how Federations work at the moment, except the Federation takes 20% of its members total fleet cap while simultaneously applying a -20% fleet cap modifier to members.

These are two separate things you're talking about. Something like this could be accomplished without touching empire fleet cap in any shape or form. You can even limit sectors to building corvettes and destroyers if you want to.

 

[praftd]

Yet it can be accomplished without modifying empire fleet cap in any way whatsoever.

Just give them a separate fleet cap modified based on population or something, which is how Federations work at the moment, except the Federation takes 20% of its members total fleet cap while simultaneously applying a -20% fleet cap modifier to members.

These are two separate things you're talking about. Something like this could be accomplished without touching empire fleet cap in any shape or form. You can even limit sectors to building corvettes and destroyers if you want to.

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. The OP proposed a system in which sectors do not contribute to your global fleet cap and instead, their stations contribute to their "sector" fleet cap.

This means your global fleet cap is smaller and therefore you are more reliant on sectors.

It sounds like you are changing what the OP's idea was.

Something like this could be accomplished without touching empire fleet cap in any shape or form.

Which is completely different from what the OP's idea was.

 

[Kat Tsun]

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. The OP proposed a system in which sectors do not contribute to your global fleet cap and instead, their stations contribute to their "sector" fleet cap.

This means your global fleet cap is smaller and therefore you are more reliant on sectors.

Your major concern was player agency, not resource allocation. That's why I used the example of the construction ships. The fundamental idea of "giving sectors battle fleets" is sound. I agree that the method proposed is poor but you never mentioned that at all in your first post in this thread. You made it sound as if you were concerned for losing the ability to tell ships where to go or something.

 

[praftd]

Your major concern was player agency, not resource allocation. That's why I used the example of the construction ships. The fundamental idea of "giving sectors battle fleets" is sound. I agree that the method proposed is poor but you never mentioned that at all in your first post in this thread.

I don't want sectors controlling my fleets. Period. I don't want them to build them. I don't want them to modify/make designs. I don't want them to control them. I don't want them to take from my fleet cap.

If there is a system where sectors do their own thing and make their own fleets that has nothing to do with mine, I could be interested if properly balanced. Otherwise, I wouldn't wish it to be added to the game. However, I doubt we could ever see it implemented in a way that wasn't annoying. War is laggy/tedious enough as it is without every single sector in the game building fleets.

 

[Kat Tsun]

I don't want sectors controlling my fleets.[1] Period. I don't want them to build them.[2] I don't want them to modify designs.[3] I don't want them to control them.[4] I don't want them to take from my fleet cap.[5]

1) That was never mentioned in the OP.
2) Why not? You can even tell them what to build if you read the OP.
3) That was never mentioned in the OP.
4) That was never mentioned in the OP.
5) That isn't necessary to begin with.

The major flaws with the OP's idea are that it is unnecessarily detrimental to large empires for no real reason (possibly because the OP can't Be Big) offered and the idea isn't very well fleshed out to begin with. I'm not even sure if it's possible for sectors to build anything besides Auto designs.

 

[praftd]

1) That was never mentioned in the OP.
2) Why not? You can even tell them what to build if you read the OP.
3) That was never mentioned in the OP.
4) That was never mentioned in the OP.
5) That isn't necessary to begin with.

I was being as clear as possible. I don't not want sectors to touch my fleets in any way, shape, or form. This included everything in OP's post and outside of it.

Why not? You can even tell them what to build if you read the OP.

Which makes this idea even more pointless. Forcing me to tell my sectors to build what I want when I want it makes zero sense.

Just let me build what I want. There is no reason to have a middleman.

 

[safe-keeper]

The player's fleet cap is going to be hilariously small due to being limited to core systems, meaning the vast majority of your fleet is going to be built by the AI.

I am extremely particular over my fleet size and composition.

I love it when people argue this way. We're discussing a hypothetical, theoretical system, and you argue as if stats and features are decided upon and set in stone. No, your core fleet cap wouldn't need to be ridiculously small. No, the majority of your fleet wouldn't need to be built by AI sectors. Who says it would have to be implemented this way?

 

[praftd]

I love it when people argue this way. We're discussing a hypothetical, theoretical system, and you argue as if stats and features are decided upon and set in stone. No, your core fleet cap wouldn't need to be ridiculously small. No, the majority of your fleet wouldn't need to be built by AI sectors. Who says it would have to be implemented this way?

The OP posted an idea. I stated that I did not like that idea.

Then people state I'm "wrong" because what I said isn't true based on things the OP didn't even say. My issue was with OP's idea the way he layed it out and the ideas he had. That's it.

As I've said, I may be okay with the AI having control over fleets in some way. But I have yet to see anyone with an idea I'd be okay with. Which is my opinion.

Who says it would have to be implemented this way?

Nobody said it had to be anything. But the OP presented the idea implemented in that way. I'm not going to agree with a person's idea if you have to completely change it to be good.

If the OP states, "I think the game would be better if it had X!" And I follow with, "I don't agree, I think X would make the game worse." It makes zero sense to be like, "Why are you against the OP's idea? The game might not be good with X, but it would be great with Y!"