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Jorgen_CAB

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First off, no, sectors are not "working." They *exist,* sure, but if they were "working" we wouldn't be having this discussion every few hours literally everywhere people gather to talk about the game, now, would we?

As to your question, I'll bite:

Space construction does not work for many/most players, ignore redevelopment has not worked right since release, Sectors still do not know how to build and maintain robots, and Sectors continue to ignore the players' input regarding slavery. They also seem to just freeze up sometimes and build absolutely nothing for decades. Those are all well documented bugs. They need to be fixed.

If you want to go further, Sectors need a way to share resources in a pinch, the player needs a way to extract resources from a sector even if at an overall loss, and finally it would be really, really great if they had some way to prioritize reducing unrest over resource production to help ease the transition when assimilating conquered pops.

I could go on, but that's surely enough for now.

I think we have widely different views on how sectors are suppose to work... for me personally a sector are more like a state in the US that is pretty self sufficient in terms of economy. Each sector should build what THEY deem necessary not what the EMPEROR or the imperial government want. Sectors should be self sufficient.

I hope they will continue to develop sector mechanic and expand on sectors and how they can differ in autonomy, from being more like a vassal to a loosely controlled region by an appointed bureaucrat governor.

Most of the things you raise are most likely broad AI problems not directly tied into sector mechanics. I have personally experienced sectors building stations and such. I know there are some bugs and those are likely to be fixed.

One problem are possibly that they have not imposed restriction on sector size, sectors with too many systems will have problems you don't see in smaller sectors.

I see sectors building and maintain robots, the AI in general are not really smart enough to stop building them when there are no good tiles left to put them in. This is a general AI issue.

In some sense, from a role-play perspective I think it can be good if sectors sometimes ignore your settings. I would like sectors to have more of a mind of their own.

Having a 75% tax on sectors seem a powerful tool to use, that should in and of itself cause riots on the streets of planets in my opinion. ;)
There just should be more non violent stuff for sectors to invest their resources in, that would be a much better solution to the problem in my opinion. Allow planets to consume energy and minerals to increase happiness as a basic function, or some such. Create a system where planets have its own stores and there is a planet, system, sector and imperial treasury and tax system. Planets should mainly reinvest in themselves and only a slight amount of resources should be shoved upward. The more advanced and autonomous a planet is the less they should be inclined to give resources to up in the ladder. This would make things so much more interesting than planet development minutia.
 
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Jorgen_CAB

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It's the "We don't think you care much about this" line of reasoning at the end, stated even after acknowledging that steam, Reddit, and these forums are swamped with complaints. It doesn't help that in a previous post he blithely blamed all Sector problems on "players want different things," effectively blaming his personal failures as creative director on his customers.

That's just a *huge* faux pas in the community relations business.

No... what you don't seem to understand is that they are sick and tired of threads being derailed by people who just complain and give NO real feedback and proof of their complaints. They need evidence so they can hunt down bugs or they don't exist. They don't say there are no bugs, just that they want positive criticism and not whining. I will admit that I whine at times to.. but at least I know that I do and try to don't do it too much... ;)
 
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Jorgen_CAB

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I wish to highlight this.
Above talking about "fixing" sectors and their AI, I think we should first and foremost have an actual in-depth discussion (or at least exposition) about WHAT EXACTLY the sectors are SUPPOSED TO BE. Why they work separately from the "core worlds" with different rules, why they are required and what is their goal in the game design.

A general list is...

1. Reduce micro-management.
2. Introduce a diminishing return of efficiency in large empires.
3. Increase empire ethic divergence.
4. Being a seat of power for decent and rebellion.
5. Great source of expansion material for future development.

Probably the main intention of sectors from a design standpoint.

Note that the first and second point go hand in hand... players are NOT supposed to control every world and their development, worlds are suppose to be less efficient as an empire grow. That is from en imperial view, not the sector itself.
 
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I find this discussion quite absurd. The problem being perceived are sectors, but the real problem is all the AI. Enemy empires also leave huge areas without working, seem to be incapable of removing title blockers and do really strange decisions relate to pops and buildings position. No wonder insane difficulty is the only way to go if you want some challenge. And I don't think that it will take a lot of resources to improve planet management for the AI, which would make the game far more enjoyable and challenging
 
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I haven't really had problems. A couple times I've *thought* my sectors weren't building anything on planets in 1.3.2, but it turns out they were updating their capital buildings, which just takes forever. I just missed the progress bar. I've also seen them colonize worlds in their borders, and my specialized sectors are producing more of their specialty than they are of anything else. I could probably do it more efficiently, but that's what core worlds are for: mattering. Sector worlds are for quietly producing resources, which they seem to do fine.
 
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I find this discussion quite absurd. The problem being perceived are sectors, but the real problem is all the AI. Enemy empires also leave huge areas without working, seem to be incapable of removing title blockers and do really strange decisions relate to pops and buildings position. No wonder insane difficulty is the only way to go if you want some challenge. And I don't think that it will take a lot of resources to improve planet management for the AI, which would make the game far more enjoyable and challenging

The problem is even worse for AI empires because they seem to overspend on their militaries and don't invest properly in their economy first, in addition to the general ai construction and pop issues that sectors suffer from. I've seen fully populated planets that the ai have owned for a century with barely any buildings on them.
 
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emperor_kk

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...snip...
You may now proceed with the complaining.
I find this condescending and blatantly insulting.

On a general note.
"Discussion and complaining about sectors outside of this thread will not be permitted, though you may of course still post specific suggestions in the suggestion forum and bug reports in the bug report forum."
This is completely ridiculous but you just won me a bet so i can't be complaining much. A dev-sanctioned silencing is just a new low and a marketing failure.

@Darkath thank you for putting it so well.

@Jorgen_CAB Do you actually believe the things you write? This is by no means meant as an insult and I sincerely apologize if you take it in this light but I am honestly baffled by your comments.

But I'm willing to bite, so here goes:

Better UI for sectors (please take a look at proposal section).
Sector wide edicts on basic building patterns or a build planner for colonies under each sector.
Sector wide edicts on basic building patterns or a build planner for space stations under each sector.
Infrastructure grants from the empire to the sectors. (redistribution of an amount of income for a number of years/months)
Use of own sector resources for space station building.
Sector edicts for terraforming based on preselected planet types and terraforming goals. Combine this with the auto-colonization feature to work in parallel.
Toggle option for defense army building with different levels of army presense.
Fix the sector AI to actually build things efficiently in sectors and not remain dormant for decades. I don';t expect sectors to be as efficient as a human player but i would expect a 30 colony sector to outproduce a 5 colony core sector.
Fix the sector AI to properly handle and sustain robot/droid/synth populations and use them where they make a difference.*
Fix the sector AI to properly handle slave populations.
Fix the sector AI to not starve populace and to stop building hundreds of unneeded farms in other cases.
Fix the sector AI to efficiently use special tiles. A mine should not be placed on a batharian deposit.
Ability of user to bypass sector control by using empire resources to order builds or que specific buildings.
Sector level ship construction orders.
Sector level army construction orders.
Construction ships should be being built depending on sector size. Also, if you lose a sector constructor another one should take its place.
Surplus of sector minerals and credits should be transferred to empire coffers instead of being dumped.

And for the love of the gods, pretending that something is ok, doesn't make it ok. I have no illusions that the game is not meant to satisfy my personal preferences but seriously having to constantly use sector ai betterment mods to make the game playable and fun should not be considered the norm. You can just get the subscription numbers of specific mods from steam on active players to see that this is not a figment of my imagination or an unsubstantiated fact.

Furthermore, I fully understand how much work it is to make sectors ai behave even just a bit efficiently but if you can't do it I'm sure that you can outsource it to other brilliant people that can do it. (I'm sure that some of the brilliant modders whoms mods we use to fix the missing or not properly working sector workings, might be willing to share some of their insight). This comment is intended to one arrogant self-indulging individual and I sincerely dont mind if i get banned as it is evident that instead of voicing my arguments here I could voicing them in reddit or steam instead which I intend to if forced. The single and only reason that I continue to present them here is that I still believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

edit: * BTW, why can't we have droids, robots and synths in parallel? is there some logic behind it? This is meant as a question and just that.
 
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Jorgen_CAB

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@Jorgen_CAB Do you actually believe the things you write? This is by no means meant as an insult and I sincerely apologize if you take it in this light but I am honestly baffled by your comments.

Yes I do... ;)

Never said I think everything is OK with sectors either, I have my fair share of opinions on the matter. They are widely different from yours though... I find planetary development and the tile system in particular a bad system... especially for the AI but also for the player. The system are just too detailed and unnecessary. They should redo it which would fix many problems with sectors as a result.

I agree with your UI suggestions, most of your AI concerns are GENERAL AI issues not just sector AI. They need to be improved to increase the general difficulty of the game, but I don't consider it broken. Sector AI and general AI are working on a leveled playing field, it is just the player that are light years ahead of it. As it is I would think that removing player direct control would be better for making the game more challenging and replace it with planetary policies, but that will never happen.

But I guess that sectors work as intended even if they could be improved in many respects.

You can voice your opinion here... so I don't see how you have been silenced?!?
 
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emperor_kk

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I agree with your UI suggestions, most of your AI concerns are GENERAL AI issues not just sector AI. They need to be improved to increase the general difficulty of the game, but I don't consider it broken. Sector AI and general AI are working on a leveled playing field, it is just the player that are light years ahead of it. As it is I would think that removing player direct control would be better for making the game more challenging and replace it with planetary policies, but that will never happen.
An alternative of planetary policies would be agreeable with me.
No I was simply not going to go into specific details unless requested as there are detailed and properly articulated in other posts including bug reports. Allow me to have a basic grasp of the mess that some parts of 1.3 currently are as while trying to fix my own mod for 1.3, I mostly had to fix pds scripting and much less my own. Other modders can attest to the issues they encountered as well.
But I guess that sectors work as intended even if they could be improved in many respects.
I beg to differ as per the use of the verb "work" and I will leave it at that.
You can voice your opinion here... so I don't see how you have been silenced?!?
Time will tell for sure. I hardly think you naive so you must understand why I would object to any of us not being able to discuss matters of the game in an open forum logic and instead be restricted to a single thread where a lot can easily be buried. If you still feel that I need to explain in details i will do you the favour. As for my silencing quote I was not referring to just this sector thread but a habit I've been noticing and talking with other forum members about the increasing intrusiveness in some posts not agreeable to the devs. The funny part is that I bet the exchange of a certain CS:GO skin with another member telling him that sooner or later PDS would try to stop the whole sector complaining thing in the forums by either burying everything under a single thread or making a sub-subforum... well i got a brand new skin for my twin Berettas ...The road to hell is paved with good intentions after all.
 
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I personally don't think just "okay" is acceptable for a feature that the player is literally forced to use in vanilla though. It should be "great and super fun", otherwise make it optional or give ways for the player to override the sector AI with manual command.

From a game design perspective, you should clarify what is the place of sectors in the game :

1) They are semi-independant entities with their own "will" like CK2 vassals, and they should know how to play for/against the player effectively with their AI (and effectively take some control away from the player). This leads to emergent gameplay and story telling, as well as dynamic internal politics that complexifies over time. This would be great and i think this was the original intent behind the feature.

OR

2) They are a tool to help the player manage his empire more effectively and reduce micro management : then they should absolutely never take control away from the player who should be able at all times to override the sector AI with his own commands (building something specific, purging, give and take ressource easily etc). This is less interesting as 1) but is closer to the feature that is in game right now. If the player is allowed to override the AI when he needs, then having a "perfect" AI is much less important.

I must say this sums up my best feelings towards sectors, make it an interesting part of the game with positive and negative events or allow people to at least turn it off for single player. Forcing people to give up control is frustrating especially when the micro-management isn't necessarily hard as it is tedious. Ironically in some cases sectors increase micromanagement as I am forced to correct mistakes and have to make sure a colony is perfected before passing it off to the sector governor else-wise they'll remove critical buildings that fulfill a worlds purpose or allow it to maintain itself or it's happiness levels.

Speaking of which being able to designate a worlds intended function could help with sectors because you could have individual worlds do something different apart from the grand sector agenda.

Certain government types could have unique interactions with governors and sectors which could be used to indirectly balance powers between ethos as well, an iron-fisted government should have "options" when divergence gets a bit out of hand. I'm surprised that the materialist form of autocracy doesn't have mind control chips or subliminal dream projections, bio-medical nano-machine alpha-wave emulation (though this is pretty much mind control in the form of neural hi-jacking or thought replacement) etc etc to better combat ethics divergence along with each government having their own methods of combating it, then having sector governors resisting or disagreeing with such ideas to create the tensions needed.

The sector governors talents and ethos can also reflect whether they'd agree with what you do and this is all only with regard to divergence, there are multiple avenues of making sectors more dynamic, perception of favoritism for other sectors or core worlds, inadequate defenses, inadequate funding or mineral support, long-term effects of isolation if underdeveloped or not traded with enough, and anything else you can imagine with relation to ethos, government, and responses to other nations and events.

Sectors can also have positive events by raising hardened leaders, technological breakthroughs, energy overflows, mineral overflows, diplomatic breakthroughs, being useful advisors or having gained bonus traits from their experience leading making them good leaders in elections, one could expand democracies to have a cabinet like i.e. foreign trade and then pass that position to a experienced governor with economic traits he gained from sector leadership or an overlord for collectivists.

@Wiz I'm a bit concerned with how you ended your OP are you going to look at this thread and value our input? If people want change with sectors it's usually for reasons that impact the fun factor and that's the most important part of a game! D= I know people have had harsh things to say but we do care.
 
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An alternative of planetary policies would be agreeable with me.
No I was simply not going to go into specific details unless requested as there are detailed and properly articulated in other posts including bug reports. Allow me to have a basic grasp of the mess that some parts of 1.3 currently are as while trying to fix my own mod for 1.3, I mostly had to fix pds scripting and much less my own. Other modders can attest to the issues they encountered as well.

I beg to differ as per the use of the verb "work" and I will leave it at that.

Time will tell for sure. I hardly think you naive so you must understand why I would object to any of us not being able to discuss matters of the game in an open forum logic and instead be restricted to a single thread where a lot can easily be buried. If you still feel that I need to explain in details i will do you the favour. As for my silencing quote I was not referring to just this sector thread but a habit I've been noticing and talking with other forum members about the increasing intrusiveness in some posts not agreeable to the devs. The funny part is that I bet the exchange of a certain CS:GO skin with another member telling him that sooner or later PDS would try to stop the whole sector complaining thing in the forums by either burying everything under a single thread or making a sub-subforum... well i got a brand new skin for my twin Berettas ...The road to hell is paved with good intentions after all.

You can post threads about suggestions in the suggestions forum and bug reports in the bug forum and discuss the merits and problems of those specific things there. This thread are for general complaint that does not lead anywhere.
I also think "sectors" have serious problems with its execution, so I actually agree with that part... perhaps just not necessarily on the same details.

Are the UI clunky and could the feature have been better represented to the player and player interaction with them been better... YES!!

But I don't think the general forum should be spammed by threads about that, the suggestion form is good enough to raise those issues while bugs can be presented in the bug report forum. A single thread for complaint and whining are pretty good enough... I whine in it to and I have been whining about my gripes about sectors in other threads.

Why do people always think every time they are told to behave or simply told something there is ether a conspiracy or it is personal?!?

If Paradox think sectors work MOSTLY as intended then they do, if you think their intentions are bad is another matter. I actually think that sectors work sort of OK and think that it is the underlying mechanic that is badly implemented but that is more of a design problem than a bug.
 
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I must say this sums up my best feelings towards sectors, make it an interesting part of the game with positive and negative events or allow people to at least turn it off for single player. Forcing people to give up control is frustrating especially when the micro-management isn't necessarily hard as it is tedious. Ironically in some cases sectors increase micromanagement as I am forced to correct mistakes and have to make sure a colony is perfected before passing it off to the sector governor else-wise they'll remove critical buildings that fulfill a worlds purpose or allow it to maintain itself or it's happiness levels.

Speaking of which being able to designate a worlds intended function could help with sectors because you could have individual worlds do something different apart from the grand sector agenda.

Certain government types could have unique interactions with governors and sectors which could be used to indirectly balance powers between ethos as well, an iron-fisted government should have "options" when divergence gets a bit out of hand. I'm surprised that the materialist form of autocracy doesn't have mind control chips or subliminal dream projections, bio-medical nano-machine alpha-wave emulation (though this is pretty much mind control in the form of neural hi-jacking or thought replacement) etc etc to better combat ethics divergence along with each government having their own methods of combating it, then having sector governors resisting or disagreeing with such ideas to create the tensions needed.

The sector governors talents and ethos can also reflect whether they'd agree with what you do and this is all only with regard to divergence, there are multiple avenues of making sectors more dynamic, perception of favoritism for other sectors or core worlds, inadequate defenses, inadequate funding or mineral support, long-term effects of isolation if underdeveloped or not traded with enough, and anything else you can imagine with relation to ethos, government, and responses to other nations and events.

Sectors can also have positive events by raising hardened leaders, technological breakthroughs, energy overflows, mineral overflows, diplomatic breakthroughs, being useful advisors or having gained bonus traits from their experience leading making them good leaders in elections, one could expand democracies to have a cabinet like i.e. foreign trade and then pass that position to a experienced governor with economic traits he gained from sector leadership or an overlord for collectivists.

@Wiz I'm a bit concerned with how you ended your OP are you going to look at this thread and value our input? If people want change with sectors it's usually for reasons that impact the fun factor and that's the most important part of a game! D= I know people have had harsh things to say but we do care.

I am very certain Paradox will never make sectors optional because there are too many things tied into it and would seriously upset game balance. People would feel entitled to complain how bad the AI is while min/max every world. Sectors can be modded out that should be good enough for those that don't want to have them, mods are a good thing.

Otherwise I agree that sectors could use more events, I'm certain the mechanics around both planet development and sectors will change with the next few expansions. This mechanic will not function the same a year from now, trust me on this... until then we just have to play the way it is and complain here until they reveal any good changes to it.

I for one will complain about the clunky and pointless tile based planet development system until they change it to something better, something the AI are better at using, less micro and min/max prone by the players.
 
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The problem is even worse for AI empires because they seem to overspend on their militaries and don't invest properly in their economy first, in addition to the general ai construction and pop issues that sectors suffer from. I've seen fully populated planets that the ai have owned for a century with barely any buildings on them.

Yes, at least you can fix this with mods... now that stations are pretty strong the AI should invest much more of its economy into expanding which also leads to more resources for fleets down the road. They should have tweaked the economy numbers for the AI a bit more after the enhanced the stations power.
 
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I think sector right now has several weak points. However, before I discuss each weak point and idea / suggestion to mend them, we must first clarify design intention behind sector. Depending on design intention, some weak points may require radically different solutions.

Sector may be designed to:
a) minimize micro-management, by delegating economic development to sector AI. Sector options like "allow redevelopment" and "respect tile output" make sense in this interpretation only. Sector production preference also fits this interpretation more than the other one.
or
b) be a sub-entity with semi-independence, an obstacle to expansion, a vehicle for internal politics. The fact that increasing number of core systems are considered benefit effect of some government forms and repeatable techs clearly supports this interpretation as intended one.

While solution in line of interpretation a is relatively simpler, interpretation b has more potential for future contents. So I'll focus on interpretation b below.

==========

Now let's see each individual weak point.

0) Sector planets are sometimes irresponsive to replacing sector governor. For example, I replace a 5-star governor with a 4-star one. Two months later happiness of pops on sector planets still shows "Skill: +10%". Governor's trait doesn't apply, either.

-- Solution: Straightforward. Fix that bug.


1) Currently each change in sector system management is applied immediately, without free undo. So any misclick is costly. The must-continuous rule further aggravate the undo cost.

-- Solution: Make the changes apply (and thus paying influence cost) only when sector management mode closes. Preferably with a notification showing sector's projected income of energy and mineral, with three options of "Confirm" (close drawing board, apply changes), "Continue managing" (return to drawing board), and "Cancel" (close drawing board, discard changes).


2) Sector AI fails to build buildings for pops on empty tiles in time. Sector AI fails to clear tile blockers in time. Sector AI fails to replace farms when planet fully grown. Sector AI fails to construct mining and research stations in time. Sector AI overemphasize power plants. Etc, etc. In all, sector AI (in fact, general economic AI) performs unsatisfyingly in economic development / budgeting.

Some people think economics built on tile system is too difficult for AI. Some other people claim building structures on planet tiles is routinely and repetitive. Those two opinions are obviously contradicting. If building sequences are so routinely, which I partially agree with, we can easily teach those routines to AI. Current bad performance, in my opinion, is due to underoptimized development / budgeting logic, and probably some hidden bugs in that logic make the problem worse.

-- Solution: This will require a big wall of text to explain, so I'll leave it to a seperate post.

One important thing to note here, though: Running out of energy causes serious economic maluses, and sector AI shall avoid it. However, if we leave that burden to sector AI alone, it can complicate its priorities significantly. So there need to be a "subsidize sector" function, that is, when sector has negative energy income and runs dry of its energy stockpile, it will be paid from empire stockpile. That will give more time to sector to rebalance its energy budget.


3) Sector has full stockpile rotting, while empire starves of resources.

This is actually two problems. One is mineral overflow, which is in fact problem 2 manifested. Once economic / budgeting logic works, sector shall seldom run out of way to spend its minerals. The other is energy overflow, which is a real problem.

Energy is primarily spent on maintenance. If sector AI sets its energy budget target at mere balance, the empire will starve of energy to feed its fleets. If sector AI sets its target at surplus, it will have no meaningful way to spend its stockpile once all tile blockers are removed. Terraforming are the only other way to spend energy on bulk, but its priority is way lower than supporting fleets in most cases.

-- Solution: Simple. Let us assign ships to sector. At the moment this just means let sector, instead of empire, pay maintenance for ships assigned. In the future when sector has its own agenda, those ships will naturally be sector's assets.


4) Sector's shape is arbitrary. Also, there is almost no reason to set up more than one sector.

Before we dive into this one, let's look at problem 3 from another angle. People complain sector hoarding resources that can be used by empire otherwise. What if that portion of resources were inaccessible by empire in any way, no matter the planet in sector or not? Then assigning planet to sector would be straightforward beneficial, as it at least enables sector to use those inaccessible resources.

-- Solution: Introduce resource efficiency to energy and mineral, which diminishes as distance to capital (empire capital for core systems, sector capital for sector systems) increases. Sector's tax to empire will also be capped by distance between sector capital and empire capital, though it will be higher than core planet's sfficiency at the same distance.

Details: Resource efficiency (RE) for systems of distance less than 100 to capital is 100%. (For comparison, range of lv 1 warp drive is 45, lv 1 wormhole is 65, and diameter of 600-star galaxy is about 650.) That is, a planet or a mining station in those systems contributes 100% of its energy / mineral output to empire or its sector. As distance increases from 100 to 200, RE drops slowly from 100% to 75%. Then it starts dropping faster, with RE = 50% at distance 250, RE = 25% at distance 300, and finally RE = 10% at distance 330+. Sector's tax cap (TC) is 75% at distance 200-, then gradually drops to TC = 50% at distance 300, and finally TC = 25% at distance 400+. Of course you can still select tax level lower than TC. For example, for a sector whose TC = 40% (that is, distance between its capital and empire capital is 340), you can set its tax level at 0%, 25%, or 40% (TC), but not any higher.

In this way, frontier systems will naturally be grouped into sectors, and there will be no huge long sector snaking around the galaxy. For example, a frontier system A, whose distance to empire capital C is 220, will have RE = 65% if set as a core system. That is, 65% of its energy and mineral output contributes to empire and 35% is lost. However, if we group it into a nearby sector whose capital is B with AB = 70 and BC = 170 (so its TC = 75%), system A's RE will be 100%. So 100% of system A's energy and mineral output contributes to sector, who in turn can contribute 75% to empire as tax, and keep 25% for sector itself. A win-win for both empire and sector.

Of course, to implement this, we need to be able to easily appoint sector's capital (and show its TC) in sector management mode. We also need clear visual indicators for RE in both sector management mode and common galaxy map (for example, circles of radius 100, 200, 250, 300 around sector capital in sector manage mode and around empire capital in both mode). Better yet, show RE directly on enhanced galaxy map. We also need to scrap max number of sectors, which serves no purpose anyway.


5) Sector AI fails at slavery management and purging.

I have little personal experiences in this aspect, as I usually don't play with those features. So I can propose no suggestion to this.


Edit: To accommodate different density of habitable worlds due to habitable percentage setting (HP), we can apply a factor such as [1.5 / (0.5+HP)] to distance list above.
 
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IMO when people say something like "have u ever try to give sector 5k minerals?", they fundamentally wrong.
Lets try to understand why with example of such game as SC2: when u hign on minerals(like >500), you are playing bad. The reason is that you wasting potential buildings or army. So I have a question for all of you: for which purpose sectors want to save thousands of minerals, if they cant build warships and basic mines costs ~70 minerals?
This is economically wrong even for AI empires: if u saving minerals not for expensive important building\upgrade\ship, you're performing bad. Keep stockpiles as empty as possible.
 
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Why do people always think every time they are told to behave or simply told something there is ether a conspiracy or it is personal?!?
If you don't care enough to put in even that small effort, we have to assume that it really isn't actually important to you.

You may now proceed with the complaining.

The general snark of the OP started this whole thread off on the wrong foot Jorgen_CAB, especially in the context of the general discontent in the community about sectors. Wiz is only human, but he basically ridiculed all of us for being discontent with an aspect of his company's product. Actually, out of the hundreds of thousands of people who bought the game he ridiculed the few who care enough to make an account, go to the forums, and describe their problems with the product.

Notice the number of people here who only have stellaris badges? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that means that stellaris is the only paradox game they own, they are not just paradox fanboys. Stellaris has introduced paradox as a company to a whole bunch of new people, myself included, and although (sector ai excepted) stellaris has impressed me as a game, my first impression of paradox's community management has not been a good one, and I doubt I am alone in that.
 
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You can post threads about suggestions in the suggestions forum and bug reports in the bug forum and discuss the merits and problems of those specific things there. This thread are for general complaint that does not lead anywhere.
I also think "sectors" have serious problems with its execution, so I actually agree with that part... perhaps just not necessarily on the same details.

Are the UI clunky and could the feature have been better represented to the player and player interaction with them been better... YES!!

But I don't think the general forum should be spammed by threads about that, the suggestion form is good enough to raise those issues while bugs can be presented in the bug report forum. A single thread for complaint and whining are pretty good enough... I whine in it to and I have been whining about my gripes about sectors in other threads.

The OP wrote :
"On account of the constant 'sectors are broken' derails that are infesting half the threads on this forum, we've decided to create a general thread for sector discussion and feedback. Discussion and complaining about sectors outside of this thread will not be permitted, though you may of course still post specific suggestions in the suggestion forum and bug reports in the bug report forum."

There is a difference between discussion and complaints, but you insist on most of your comments to just reply to whatever part of the information might favor the rest of your opinions, so I dare say it eludes you.


Why do people always think every time they are told to behave or simply told something there is ether a conspiracy or it is personal?!?

I respect your right to have an opinion but there is distinct difference between a forming trend that can be substantiated with previous examples in the past 30 days in this same stellaris sub-forum and just an opinion. Why do you feel it could be personal? A semantic difference exists between a directive, a suggestion and an enforced policy, which in turns affects the underlying eco-system of this or any other forum for that matter.

Also ridiculing your clientele for spending time to make a PDS account, post bugs, proposals and comments favourable or not because they don't like a specific aspect of your product is just bad. If you cant see that as an issue, I'm not sure we can even exchange ideas on the same level.

If Paradox think sectors work MOSTLY as intended then they do, if you think their intentions are bad is another matter. I actually think that sectors work sort of OK and think that it is the underlying mechanic that is badly implemented but that is more of a design problem than a bug.
No, No but I wouldn't want to burst your bubble. No a bug is for all intents and purposes bad implementation and/or design that results in errors, exceptions or unwanted behaviour, so the answer is still no.

I see that you deem it necessary to reply to everyone that voices any unfavorable opinion in your eyes, do I see another trend forming or is it also a conspiracy theory? On the other hand it could be just a case of belonging to a group of people with collective outlook and behavior concerning a subject (movies, games, hardware, comic book characters, etc.) which when challenged results in an antagonistic, passionate, and unreasoned response. My initial reference to you was if you actually believe what you write and your affirmative answer can only lead me to specific assumptions but then again this last part of my comment is an opinion.
edit: and to quote Dirty Harry, Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one!
 
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The general snark of the OP started this whole thread off on the wrong foot Jorgen_CAB, especially in the context of the general discontent in the community about sectors. Wiz is only human, but he basically ridiculed all of us for being discontent with an aspect of his company's product. Actually, out of the hundreds of thousands of people who bought the game he ridiculed the few who care enough to make an account, go to the forums, and describe their problems with the product.

Notice the number of people here who only have stellaris badges? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that means that stellaris is the only paradox game they own, they are not just paradox fanboys. Stellaris has introduced paradox as a company to a whole bunch of new people, myself included, and although (sector ai excepted) stellaris has impressed me as a game, my first impression of paradox's community management has not been a good one, and I doubt I am alone in that.

Still the problem is not people complaining about sectors, but people complaining EVERYWHERE unrelated about "sectors will still be shit" as last seen in the "faction changes in 1.4 1.5 thread" (Pretty snarky post there by MementoMori, maybe Wiz' wording was kind of a direct response?). The real life equivalent would be people discontent in a restaurant with farfalle noodles always butting in in unrelated table conversations with "well the farfalle noodle is still sh*t!"

Also not all the people who make an account to this forum do that because they want to complain about sectors. Not even all the people who log in to the forums are complaining about the sectors. Not ever even all people who log in here to complain, complain about the sectors. I for example complain far and wide about the gen-modificated species and the inabilitiy to either give them unique names automatically or the possibility to rename them. But I don't do that everywhere but in the respective threads.
If you are posting your bug reports in the bug forum and your suggestions in the suggestions forum, you may have not that many viewers within the general usership of the forum, but you make sure that the devs take notice of them.
 
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The OP wrote :
"On account of the constant 'sectors are broken' derails that are infesting half the threads on this forum, we've decided to create a general thread for sector discussion and feedback. Discussion and complaining about sectors outside of this thread will not be permitted, though you may of course still post specific suggestions in the suggestion forum and bug reports in the bug report forum."

There is a difference between discussion and complaints, but you insist on most of your comments to just reply to whatever part of the information might favor the rest of your opinions, so I dare say it eludes you.




I respect your right to have an opinion but there is distinct difference between a forming trend that can be substantiated with previous examples in the past 30 days in this same stellaris sub-forum and just an opinion. Why do you feel it could be personal? A semantic difference exists between a directive, a suggestion and an enforced policy, which in turns affects the underlying eco-system of this or any other forum for that matter.

Also ridiculing your clientele for spending time to make a PDS account, post bugs, proposals and comments favourable or not because they don't like a specific aspect of your product is just bad. If you cant see that as an issue, I'm not sure we can even exchange ideas on the same level.


No, No but I wouldn't want to burst your bubble. No a bug is for all intents and purposes bad implementation and/or design that results in errors, exceptions or unwanted behaviour, so the answer is still no.

I see that you deem it necessary to reply to everyone that voices any unfavorable opinion in your eyes, do I see another trend forming or is it also a conspiracy theory? On the other hand it could be just a case of belonging to a group of people with collective outlook and behavior concerning a subject (movies, games, hardware, comic book characters, etc.) which when challenged results in an antagonistic, passionate, and unreasoned response. My initial reference to you was if you actually believe what you write and your affirmative answer can only lead me to specific assumptions but then again this last part of my comment is an opinion.
edit: and to quote Dirty Harry, Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one!

Well I would not consider something that work but is badly implemented a bug, but that might just be a personal opinion. ;)

I respond in this thread because I too are concerned about sectors and would like to see them changed, I think that it is good if this thread remain on the first page for as long as possible. :)

I don't think that relegating whining to one thread is a bad thing.. it is annoying when other equally valid threads get buried because of sector are broken threads. One is enough for general complaint, but that is my personal opinion.

Your personal opinion of me is irrelevant, I don't express personal opinions of people on internet forums, that is kind of pointless. I have nothing personal vested in this issue other than my opinion which I hope Paradox on some level listen to in some small way.
 
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