Sector Discussion/Quarantine Thread

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Right now, I have the impression that the AI is overburdened by both having to keep a positive resource balance, and being subjected to the demands of the player. This leads to large stockpiles of resources and undesired building behavior. To remove this burden, I suggest the following.

1. Replace the percentage based tax with a flat tax per month, and implement separate taxes for minerals and credits. Also, allow the player to set a monthly subsidy instead of a tax. So for example, a 2 credits/month tax or a 3 credits/month subsidy.

2. Allow the sector to run a deficit. This allows the sector to fully commit to the wishes of the player, without having to constantly balance its resource income. For example, if the player wants to set up a research focused sector, the sector can build research labs without having to also build power plants to support them and mines to built them. The deficit can then be dealt with by applying a subsidy. When the sector's resources go negative, they start disabling or demolishing buildings.

3. Allow sectors to send a message to the player when they run a deficit and their stockpiles are running low, so the player is aware of this and can correct it.

These suggestions are expected to have the following benefits:

-Reduce burden on AI due to not having to properly balance sector resources. This should make decision making easier for the AI.

-Allows full sector specialization. For example, an energy sector could generate a large energy tax, which can then be used to subsidize a research sector.

-Allows the player to drain the sector stockpile, for example in times of war.

-An empire economy that feels more fluid and real.

Another suggestion, unrelated to the others and perhaps a bit harder to implement, but potentially worthwhile:

4. Allow players to give one-time commands to sectors. For example: "focus on energy production for the next 10 years" or "improve happiness". This would allow even more sector fine-tuning by the player. Maybe an influence cost could be tied to these commands.
 
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Interesting to read people wondering about what the actual purpose of sectors is. I thought it would be interesting to go back and reread the original dev diary, which makes it clear that they exist for one reason and one reason alone: to mitigate the micromanagement problems caused by the planetary tile system.

Doomdark said:
Today I am going to talk about one of the great pitfalls of strategy game design; dull micromanagement. That is, features which require too much player attention. The trick, of course, is determining how much is “too much”, but it’s useful to consider how central the feature is to the core gameplay, how well it scales between small and large states, and how repetitive it gets with time.

In Stellaris, one feature which risked causing bad micromanagement was the planetary tile system; assigning Pops to tiles and deciding which buildings should go where. It is a fairly central feature and it is fun to use… but if you had to worry about 20, 50 or more planets, it would scale poorly. The obvious solution to this type of scaling issue is automation; you can let the AI handle it for you. This is indeed what we did in Stellaris, but not in a “traditional” fashion... Instead, we opted for something a little bit more akin to the vassals in Crusader Kings through something we call Administrative Sectors.

So, let's agree to disagree for a moment about the planetary tile management being fun to use, and focus on whether or not sectors are an appropriate tool to fix this problem. Two biggest problems I can see here are:

1) The justification of 'what if you have 20 or 50 planets' falls a little hollow when: a) the core planets limit is 5 systems, not 20 b) the game is designed to have a very small number of worlds, so having 50 systems isn't going to happen until late game
2) even if you did have 50 worlds, you don't have to micromanage them all at the same time. Once a world is 'finished' (all tiles filled), the only micromanagement you have to do is upgrading buildings when new tech becomes available. Actually mapping out the tile usage on planets only happens when in the decades after a world is first colonised. It would be more useful to have a feature that would automatically upgrade tiles for you than sectors, in terms of micro-reduction.
 
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Ok, so I'm going to give this constructive post a shot... My personal opinion on sector issues:

* I really dislike having to set a focus for an entire sector. I prefer making more geographical sectors, especially in Hyperlane games, but that makes planet boni harder to use, to the point I have to pre-plan any planet with modifiers. Being able to set focus per planet would help create specialised planets without micro-management. Not to mention having a mineral-heavy planet and a science one in the same system pretty much requires you to set everything up yourself.
* Coupled with the above, I don't think sectors should be able to govern an infinite number of systems. If anything, I would really like to see them having a maximum of systems equal to your core system count, which generates value for the research on increased caps/sectors in the late game as well as provide more interesting choices in governors.
* The major issue with Sector AI regarding food is that it doesn't seem to replace buildings once your tech goes up. I haven't looked in all the files, but my general feeling seems to be that the AI seems to be overlooking certain food bonuses as to when it should replace farms. I can understand Happiness & Governor perks not being taken into account, as they can drop again, but I get the feeling the (repeatable) techs are not included either.
* I haven't played with slavery (both bio & robotic) much, but as I have been reading the forums, this seems to need some extra work as well. Perhaps this is part of the same resource evaluation issue the food production has.
* Overwriting sector buildings/troops should be possible, especially when it comes to leader-uniques or special buildings you want to use (e.g. Clone Vats). Especially if the AI will not be handling factions (well) in the new patch.
* Resources generated beyond the sector cap should be taxed 100% and/or taxes should have a bigger impact on factions & divergence within a sector. If anything, I would actually tax resources going INTO sectors, as it punishes unbalanced sectors and prevents shipping resources from one sector to anyother freely (assuming the 100% transfer out is possible) This also doesn't push sector design into as little non-planet sectors as possible, because the resources mined in 'empty' systems are then 100% for your fleet.
* Not directly related to sector AI, but if something like above mechanics would 'force' multiple sectors, could we then add sector fleets? (See more at the bottom)


Things I don't want to change in sectors:
* Ethic Diversity (although it could be 5%) or a similar effect that makes the sector feel more itself, see the tax thing above
* The sub-economy within a sector, preferably with some sort of ethics/faction effect if it isn't balanced. I think of it as the virtual transport costs of things (can't make mineral sector on one side of the galaxy and just have it magically appear on the other side)


On sector fleets:
This actually came to me while thinking about sectors, but could actually fix part of the doomstack boredom as well:
What if the a part of the fleet cap value generated by sectors was reserved for a sector fleet? And that fleet was somewhow connected to that sector?
It could have its maintenance paid by the sector, or a defensive bonus while fighting within their home sector, less upkeep if stationed there,...
You would ofcourse need to be able to tax/adjust this fleet cap to funnel part of it into your national/federal fleet, but that would allow for more play between a centralised vs local goverment type. A centralised regime would have a stronger national fleet, but create more unhappiness within sectors, while a decentralised government would have strong defensive fleets, but can't build a giant armada to invade & overwhelm others. Think of it as local vs federal police forces as it is in many nations across the world already. How much you can vary here would be a nice policy array, which is then partially locked to government ethics.
Perhaps, if the AI can handle it, you could possibly allow a fleet to be managed by the sector itself, creating a defensive sector on your border with its own military power. Ofcourse, this would lead to more militant separatist factions, but hey ... that's part of the fun, right? :)
We would need more options regarding fleet templates to make it easier to handle all these fleets, as well as easier building instructions.
Being able to tell a sector (or your core 'sector') to rebuild 'their' fleetup to the pre-defined template, either favoring the best modifiers or simply as fast as possible, should help minimize the required micro management, and allows for more specific fleet setups without having to remember which of your 27 ship designs it was that went into that fleet that just got eaten by a Leviathan.

This is, again, assuming you can build balanced sectors with more geographical borders instead of doing the planet puzzle.

TL;DR: Want sectors to be partially autonomous regions (real life examples: Belgium, Switzerland, US), sector AI to handle food/slaves better, taxes to be improved and fleets to be linked to sectors, both for sector values as well as to counter the doomstack issue.
 
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I think the reason is that people enjoy trolling for attention.

I'm not saying there's no valid criticism of sectors, but seriously, going into every thread to say 'but have they fixed sectors yet' is not something I think any poster here to be dumb enough to consider worthwhile discourse. I have a higher opinion of you guys than that.
I don't think it's trolling...more like a neurosis. Wiz I'm sure you already know that a vast bulk of complaints and suggestions on this topic are impossible to address. Person A wants the sector to do X, Y and Z while person B wants sectors to stop doing X while doing Y differently. Cant win.

Surely then maybe y'all can just look to opening up sector behaviour and features for modding. Yes it's a quite a bit of work but here's the thing:

You guys are Paradox. You specialise in making games for the hardcore binge gamers. And we your customers are all slightly neurotic when it comes to our ambitions for galactic domination. Hell I play stellaris with a pen and notepad.... nearly popped a blood vessel when I discovered the sector was building shield generators instead of happiness buildings that would boost planetary output by the 2% needed to meet the annual budget for my new battleship fleet. So the AI will never please the average Stellaris fanatic. So....give us 'some' of the functionality to bend that AI to our twisted will

More options for sectors (eg tax rates, resource-hoarding, and yes even the ability to go into a sector planet and issue an 'executive order' for a special building etc)

It won't fix the problem but it should pacify the OCD in my of us.

In summary I'd say the issue with sectors isn't sectors but rather the neurotic tendencies of your average Stellaris die hard
 
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Pop enslavement is controlled on the empire level in 1.5, so sectors will no longer have anything to do with it.

Allowing manual control of build queue defeats the whole point of sectors though.



I think players would be more comfortable if sectors were a little more reliable. This is I think is the biggest issue, and defending the current system is tough when I suspect it is not working as designed.



My experience has been that they tend to fail to build happiness or ethics divergence buildings resulting in me periodically taking everything in and out of the sectors in order to manually re-arrange things. This scenario in my view breaks some of the purpose of the sectors.

I should state that I really don't like micro-management and would be quite happy if the Sector AI did a passable job of keeping ethics divergence under control and was pro-active at dealing with happiness.

As I see it part of the solution is a better AI for the sector management, and reducing the penalties for using them. I would suggest a smaller penalty to ethics divergence.

My own thoughts for improvements

-Ethics divergence for sectors should be linked to what the sector does, perhaps if the focus is on science the ethics could drift that direction.

-Governors should be automatically generated, with influence being only needed to recruit and bring in one of your choice. Related to the this there should be no cap on leaders. With this method there is a reason why you might have a sub-optimal choice, including a potential troublemaker.

-Big Enough Sectors should be able to build and control a small fleet, this would be used by the sector to deal with pirates or lone enemy ships moving through the empire. It also gives the nucleus around which rebellions can happen.

-The player should be able to make changes to any planet from above for an influence cost, thus if the AI is struggling (there are always times it will) there is a way to easily handle it without breaking the immersion. I think this simple change would fix most of the complaints that currently made.

-I think there needs to be some more settings and priorities, including a focus on integrating newly conquered planets as well as minimising ethics divergence and separatism.
 
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I like sectors and I like the idea of autonomous/devolved government.

I don't feel like the AI is quite where it needs to be in certain places. For example, if I allow the AI to enslave POPs on an alien world I have conquered, what does it do? It enslaves everyone. Even the POPs working research/energy tiles who will gain a fat penalty to their productivity when enslaved. I'd like to have a button which would ask the sector AI to maximize its productivity. Enslave POPs where slavery helps and don't enslave when it hurts.
 
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Interesting to read people wondering about what the actual purpose of sectors is. I thought it would be interesting to go back and reread the original dev diary, which makes it clear that they exist for one reason and one reason alone: to mitigate the micromanagement problems caused by the planetary tile system.
Yeah, yeah. :) Lessening mirco, by forcing player to use AS.

In Stellaris, one feature which risked causing bad micromanagement was the planetary tile system; assigning Pops to tiles and deciding which buildings should go where. It is a fairly central feature and it is fun to use… but if you had to worry about 20, 50 or more planets, it would scale poorly. The obvious solution to this type of scaling issue is automation; you can let the AI handle it for you. This is indeed what we did in Stellaris, but not in a “traditional” fashion... Instead, we opted for something a little bit more akin to the vassals in Crusader Kings through something we call Administrative Sectors.

There is a difference between "giving player a useful tool to lesser the micro-burden" and "forcing player to use AS". But it was already discussed like million times. And that's why a want a clear answer - is "reducing micro" one and only Sectors goal or not.
 

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Yeah, yeah. :) Lessening mirco, by forcing player to use AS.



There is a difference between "giving player a useful tool to lesser the micro-burden" and "forcing player to use AS". But it was already discussed like million times. And that's why a want a clear answer - is "reducing micro" one and only Sectors goal or not.

I think the sectors went from being a means to end - which was a better game without uneccsary clicking. And became an end in itself, had they become semi-autonomous vassals it might have been interesting. In the absence of such a system it feels unfair to penalise the player with the inability to change what planets are up to once in a sector.
 
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Allowing manual control of build queue defeats the whole point of sectors though.

I don't think it does, not conceptually. As they are now, sure, but if you're willing to do some substantial reworks... Personally I don't mind sectors currently - just stick a system in one and stop caring about it - but it's not interesting and I can absolutely see why people have problems with all the AI/building/failure to be trusted to utilize tile resources intelligently.

A better approach I think comes down to focusing on how sectors were introduced in the dev diary talking about them: as something similar to CK2 vassals.

TL,DR: Dropping the focus on sectors being a player aide and instead being primarily concerned with making them a political mechanic only makes for better sector mechanics overall.

CK2 vassals are not primarily tools to assist with management from the player's benefit (although, yes, they have that as a bonus side effect - if you play with demesne limits turned off managing all your counties gets very dumb very fast). CK2 vassals represent the difficulties of managing a realm from an in-game perspective, force you to pick which areas you directly control and which areas you control indirectly (and thus receive less benefit from in terms of taxes/levies) and introduce internal politics that make the game more interesting.

CK2 vassals do not restrict you from spending your own resources on developing vassal holdings, or on creating new barony-level holdings. Granted, that's far less involved than a tile-based system (and province development isn't the point of CK2 in the way that pop/tile management can be said to be the point of Stellaris), but it's I think a good thing to note that the relatively recent ability to be able to develop any of your vassals' holdings was touted as a feature and was very well received. While I respect that there could be a vision for sectors being far more autonomous than CK2 vassals in terms of development (and having such a design vision and wanting to make that a reality does have some intrinsic merit), at some point that needs to be weighed against the practical concerns of what the players want. Giving players the option to influence what sectors build while still allowing sectors to do most of the work on their own if the player lets them is not a bad thing. I mean, you've already recognized that AI control of slavery hasn't worked out, and we already have the ability to move pops around in a sector-controlled planet for free - there's not a lot of justification left for not giving players the option to build their own buildings if they choose to.

So, with that covered, how should we approach sectors in Stellaris?

First, stop marketing them as player aides. As long as they are marketed that way, players will expect them to perform as good as a human player in order to feel like it's actually an aide and not a liability. Getting the AI to that point is almost assuredly not feasible - those who care will never be satisfied, and you will always see people complaining that sectors need to be "fixed" as long as they don't perform the way individual players think is "best." There is no amount of settings you can give to a sector that will make them appear to be competent to all players in all situations. Additionally, this isn't something everybody thinks is essential: some people like tedious micro (or at least don't have a problem with it). Not giving way on this is probably a bad hill to pick to die on. There's just not a lot of enthusiastic support for it - at most you've got tepid acceptance, and some real vitriol from those who are very unhappy with it.

Rather, the focus should be on the fact that sectors model the inability to directly control an entire empire (Yes, people who want to be able to take the entire stockpile of resources from a sector for free are objectively wrong. Move along). Sectors should also be made interesting politically. We don't know yet how the new faction system plays, so this isn't something that can be fully elaborated on yet, but there could be some options there. For now though, I'll assume the following suggestions aren't going to be related to factions directly.

Sectors should have governors assigned automatically and for free (no influence cost, and they don't take up a slot in the leader pool). However, governors should have some opinion of how things are going in the empire. I don't have concrete suggestions for what should affect opinion at the moment, but if we're just spitballing here we could have things like relative strength of sectors (a governor of some backwater sector won't be happy if you keep giving systems to an already rich sector), tax, winning/losing wars, personal ethics of the governor, adding/removing systems, etc. Unhappy governors will govern poorly, can foment unrest in the pops in the sector, work to decrease other governors' opinions of the empire, and if they are unhappy enough they can revolt. Influence can be spent to increase opinion, and influence can also be spent to replace existing governors or choose a possibly better governor than the auto-generated choice. Governors you personally appoint will have a higher opinion of you than the auto-generated choice. The automatic governor choice should have ethics respective to the pops in that sector, while ones you appoint have your empire's ethics. Pops appreciate a governor with their ethics but will be unhappy with a governor of different ethics, while a governor of the same ethics as your empire is easier to keep loyal. Replacing a governor before their term is up (either death or possibly an actual term, depending on the government of the actual empire or whatever decision you think is relevant) will also decrease the opinion of other governors (and replacing an unhappy governor makes it very likely for them to revolt instead of go quietly). Sector revolts should be dangerous, with the old CK2 revolt mechanics of being able to call in other sectors after the revolt has started, and potentially other external empires should be able to join in and support independence of an ongoing revolt.

The player should not be able to directly set the absolute tax rate. Rather, like in CK2, you can set the expected tax rate and opinion determines how much of that expected rate you'll actually get. You can set the expected tax rate to 100%, but doing so costs a continuous small amount of influence. You can also take resources from the sector stockpile, but doing so should cost influence and impact governor opinion. The sector stockpile should also determine the size of navy that will be spawned if they revolt - an unhappy governor is likely to have a bigger stockpile to work with due to not paying tax, so they can actually become dangerous. The one reasonable complaint I've seen people give about not being able to use sector resources is that when the sector hits their resource cap all those resources become entirely wasted, with no option for the player to do anything about it as opposed to the empire resource stockpile, where you can always just spend it. Rather than letting the player use this directly, I think any surplus resources a sector earns that they can't store should go to slight increases to pop happiness - say it's resources that can now be spent on public works, or bread, food, and circuses or whatnot.

Finally, we need to address how the new sector mechanics would impact influence. Since a lot of these suggestions use influence, and since influence is still needed for a lot of non-sector-related uses, we might need to get a bit more influence income than the current static maximum. Since all these new influence costs are related to sectors, the best way to make influence income scale appropriately is to base new influence sources on sectors. Specifically, we make it governor opinion. A supportive and loyal governor (if we have an opinion scale of -100 to 100, say >= 50) will actively work to support your empire politically, giving you influence. Similarly, a severely unhappy (<= -50) governor will actively work to undermine you politically, costing influence.

The end result of all of this is that sectors are no longer simply player aides - and non-optimal aides that many feel are forced and unwanted, or at best just there. Rather, they're an interesting political mechanic that you work with because doing so is rewarding, not just to avoid micro. Sectors that you don't tax aren't simply wasted resources, they're now happier governors and therefore a more stable empire. Sectors don't feel like an arbitrary barrier to good planet development, but no matter how you develop you still can't make use of that full development for free - or at least that benefit is only localized to that sector in terms of happier pops. Making sectors is both something you want to do (for the potential influence) and potentially risky for internal politics. And as a bonus, they still will retain the micro-reduction benefits if you just let them be autonomous even though that's no longer the primary focus of them.
 
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Madzai

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I think the sectors went from being a means to end - which was a better game without uneccsary clicking. And became an end in itself, had they become semi-autonomous vassals it might have been interesting. In the absence of such a system it feels unfair to penalise the player with the inability to change what planets are up to once in a sector.
I'm actually not against Sectors being "semi-autonomous vassals" or something similar. But again, if PDX want them to besomething close to CK2 vassals we have another problem. Unlike CK we have a whole set of very different forms of governments and species, so making AS works exactly the same for all of them is extremely underwhelming. And until it changes, AS continue to be just a forced tool "to reduce micro".
 
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Silversweeeper

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More information about what the sectors are thinking is nice to have. A couple of questions:

- If we transfer the minerals needed for one or more of the projects the sector is planning, will the sector be guaranteed to build those things when it next checks its mineral reserve, provided nothing major has changed (e.g. a hostile fleet showing up in a system where it was considering building a space station), or will the sector change its mind because suddenly it has the minerals for something more expensive?

- Any chance of us being able to tell the sector to remove something from the list (e.g. if we know that we will be at war when that colony ship is going to be finished and that that is a bad idea), or to change the order (e.g. to allocate minerals to a power plant before an engineering facility if both are queued)? I'd personally not mind the sector being somewhat upset about the government meddling, or it costing a small amount of influence, to discourage us from always overriding the sector's plans.
 

nfmarque

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I used to not like sectors but the more i play the more i got used to them. They are inefficient but that is wad and makes the gameplay more interesting.
Never had the problem of sectors not building while having the resources, and I only use 2 sectors 1 north and 1 south sector. I also tend to play with 50%-75% habitable worlds.
 

Magdaki

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I don't think it does, not conceptually. As they are now, sure, but if you're willing to do some substantial reworks... Personally I don't mind sectors currently - just stick a system in one and stop caring about it - but it's not interesting and I can absolutely see why people have problems with all the AI/building/failure to be trusted to utilize tile resources intelligently.

A better approach I think comes down to focusing on how sectors were introduced in the dev diary talking about them: as something similar to CK2 vassals.

TL,DR: Dropping the focus on sectors being a player aide and instead being primarily concerned with making them a political mechanic only makes for better sector mechanics overall.

[...]

And now imagine all of this is already planned. And you recognize how this is a good mechanic, and should be implemented.

However, you also only have a limited amount of content per patch/DLC. So you need do decide whether to have interesting sectors, or the new Ascension Perks.

I know nothing, but I am just saying: I would not make 'upgrading sectors' a top priority right now - it's a neat thing, but we have too many SciFi Tropes lying around that need to be used first.
 
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clockworkBabbag

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And now imagine all of this is already planned. And you recognize how this is a good mechanic, and should be implemented.

However, you also only have a limited amount of content per patch/DLC. So you need do decide whether to have interesting sectors, or the new Ascension Perks.

I know nothing, but I am just saying: I would not make 'upgrading sectors' a top priority right now - it's a neat thing, but we have too many SciFi Tropes lying around that need to be used first.

Nothing I said implied that I thought this was easy, or that it should be the #1 priority, or that I'm one of those unreasonably vitriolic people who hate sectors way too much. I said explicitly the opposite of that last point, in fact.

I just did what the point of this thread is: constructive suggestions/criticism.

Also, I mean, if you care about including arbitrary "sci-fi tropes" just because they're there over making the game good, you might be doing it wrong.
 
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seePyou

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I think the reason is that people enjoy trolling for attention.

I'm not saying there's no valid criticism of sectors, but seriously, going into every thread to say 'but have they fixed sectors yet' is not something I think any poster here to be dumb enough to consider worthwhile discourse. I have a higher opinion of you guys than that.
Trolls require a good "bait" to troll you with, so without a reasonable hook, trolls are powerless. Meaning, if you are being trolled, it means that there is something that they can troll you with.
Maybe some here consider me one, a troll that is, and I cannot change anyone's mind directly; all I can do is speak my mind and everyone is free to characterise me as they see fit.
There is a very easy, at least in my thinking, way to combat this specific case of annoyance to the forum or game devs though: discuss it! Again, I do not know what others feel, but I think I read this every now and then; where is the feedback from someone of authority on the problems reported with sectors? How sectors work and/or how sectors break are both at the moment only speculation! We have some evidence for it, but no official feedback! With no feedback to a serious part of the game, is it any wonder then why people keep bringing it up?

It might be the hardest thing to fix in this game and that is why it is not being addressed! Come out and say it!
It might be that the devs are slowly building up to fixing the sectors with each feature because it has to be a systemic overhaul and cannot be just patched out. Come out and say it!
It might be that nothing is wrong and everything we do is wrong and everything works as designed. Come out and say it!

Just tell us something, officially. Why is this not sinking in, that we need to have better communication on the subject?
Or maybe all that has been said and I've not seen it, in which case, I'm the crazy troll that you speak of.
 
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Tim_Ward

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Sector Experience in a Nutshell:

2220: first colony established, the player must develop the infrastructure and guide the colony through it's foundation
2237: second colony established, the player must guide the establishment of this colony while continuing to supervise the development of the second colony
2242: third colony established - the player must guide another new world through its foundation while continuing to supervise the growth of the second colony. The first colony is well established now.
2260: forth colony established. first colony largely developed, second colony well on its way. the player must grow the forth colony and continue to help the third colony build up.
2263: fifth colony founded. the first and second colonies are now fully established worlds and net contributors to the empire's economy. the third colony is well on its way to same, and the fourth colony still needs looking after. the player must now also start working on the fifth colony
2270: sixth colony founded. the first three colonies are now- *Sector AI forcibly pushes the player away from the desk, grab the keyboard and mouse*
Sector AI: THIS IS TOO MUCH MICROMANAGEMENT FOR YOU NOW, I'M TAKING OVER THIS PLANET *spends the next 3 decades accumulating thousands of minerals, then builds a basic power plant over a food tile on Colony 6*.

In general I'd much prefer sectors to be far less of a blunt object which are introduced into the game more gradually, and more on the player's own terms.

Like, instead of that annoying and arbitrary core systems limit, how about something like a distance from capital penalty to income, which becomes exponentially more punitive the further away from the home-world you get but which can be negated by placing worlds in sectors, because planets in sectors use the sector capital rather than the imperial capital to calculate that penalty?

You know, simulate the whole 'space local government' thing?

Maybe some fun with ethics divergence - sector planets use the distance to the sector capital to calculate ethics divergence too, but with low ethics divergence, they're pulled towards the ethics that predominate on the sector's capital world, rather than the empire as a whole. In 40k, which makes heavy use of the sector concept, there's a few instances in the fluff where the Imperium basically goes "well, this world's gone to shit, better move the sector capital to somewhere less fucked up" - I'd like to be able to do stuff like that in Stellaris: 'ooh Corrino 7's gone all militarist on me, better move the sector capital before they turn the entire Coreward Reach into gun nuts'

Lots of fun stuff to play with there with balancing productivity vs the political disunity of using sectors and general internal polticsness. Lots of mid/late game grand strategy/macro style play possible. Better than the 'fuck you for playing our game' style of sectors right now, anyway.

Also, apparently this was a lie:

I'm not going to waste any more of my time laying out what I think the problems with sectors are
 
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clockworkBabbag

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  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Maybe some fun with ethics divergence - sector planets use the distance to the sector capital to calculate ethics divergence too, but with low ethics divergence, they're pulled towards the ethics that predominate on the sector's capital world, rather than the empire as a whole. In 40k, which makes heavy use of the sector concept, there's a few instances in the fluff where the Imperium basically goes "well, this world's gone to ****, better move the sector capital to somewhere less ****ed up" - I'd like to be able to do stuff like that in Stellaris: 'ooh Corrino 7's gone all militarist on me, better move the sector capital before they turn the entire Coreward Reach into gun nuts'

I'd like to see how the ethics rework actually plays before talking about suggestions on ethics, but in general I like the idea of distance penalties being applied to either empire capital if core world or sector capital if in a sector.

I don't have any kind of problem with the soft-cap limits on core worlds - that's not at all something that's inherently bad. The most important thing IMO is that we all - players and devs - need to stop thinking of sectors as player aides. As long as that's the attitude they will never be able to measure up, because they will never perform as well as the player wants them to. There needs to be either some positive incentive to use them or they need to be an engaging mechanic that adds depth on its own - and probably in more terms than just economic management.
 
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