"Secretive Rebels" or "Rebels without a Cause"

[solops]

“Major, it did not work. The Rebels’ security is as impenetrable with the new 1.02 Rule of Engagement protocol as it was under version 1.01.”

“Blast! Captain, are you sure we can’t learn something new?”

“No sir. We still have no clue as to why the people are revolting. They won’t tell us. I admit that you would expect them to be screaming that they want more food or furniture or such, spreading leaflets, newspapers or popups to that effect, but that has not happened. They don’t seem to want us to know what’s wrong! If only we did, we might be able to fix things. Instead, it is the bayonet.”

“Harumph! Unacceptable Captain! Unacceptable! I demand results.”

“Well sir, there is this…”

“No good, Captain. These two sheets are the same drivel we already had, and we had to dig blasted deep to find them. One details a list of government and environmental items followed by plus and minus fractions…totally undocumented, indecipherable and incomprehensible. A red herring at best. The other page list food and comfort items with some numbers accompanying them. Once again, totally undocumented, indecipherable and incomprehensible. If only the idiots would just tell us “I want fruit. I want furniture. I want my MTV.” Then perhaps we could do something.”

“Yes sir. This is insane. Secret Rebels who hide their very reasons for discontent! Unprecedented in human history! Truly a strange Paradox.”

“Well Captain, all we can do is pray the whoever is behind this frustrating Paradox will see fit to enlighten the Rebels as to how to express themselves to us or at least give us a secret decoder ring for the little plusses, minuses and goods numbers.”

 

[ShrineGuard]

"How are we supposted to answer when we don't know a country, Colonel?"

"Heck if I know, Private!"

Well, I've noticed that taxes really do affect those revolts...otherwise, I've been fine with the revolt levels.

Oh, and here's a real question for you...Why is Muammar Qaddafi only a Colonel? Heck, he's the ruler of a whole darn country, and he's only a Colonel? You'd think he could be Supreme Grand Uber-General, wouldn't you? Or at least general...

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

High militancy is the usual cause of revolts. Select a pop with high militancy and hover the mouse of the number to get a breakdown of the causes.

Nationalism also causes revolts in non-national provinces taken in war. Not much you can do about them but let it die out over time.

 

[solops]

"How are we supposted to answer when we don't know a country, Colonel?"

"Heck if I know, Private!"

Well, I've noticed that taxes really do affect those revolts...otherwise, I've been fine with the revolt levels.

Which country is irrelevant. Poor notification as to the cause for rebellions is a problem for all countries.

The number of rebellions is not the problem. Finding the cause is. If the cause is high taxes, then there ought to be a pop-up saying " We are revolting because your stinking taxes are outrageous!" or "Lower taxes and more clothes!" or whatever. The information vacuum we have is silly. What data there is has no explanation or documentation that I can find. This includes the "hover" data. Undocumented. What do all the plusses and minuses mean? Which are good and which are bad? They are not all self evident, though some are. Of course militancy is a cause, but how much militancy is really bad? And I need a chance to offset the militancy by providing for other wants, but we have to understand what the other deficiencies are before we can address them....and the lack of CLEAR data WITH an explanation as to what it means is a problem for some of us who did not write the code.

 

[von Murrin]

Funny.

What makes it difficult is the tax/tariff relationship. Lower taxes and militancy drops, right? Well, with 1.02 you make your money by taxes, so lowering taxes means you need tariffs to make up the shortfall, but then the POPs can't buy anything!

Either I'm right, really stupid, or I just haven't figured it out yet.

 

[ShrineGuard]

I'd say the country is relevant, because if you're talking Austria verus a country that has all of its pops as the national culture, that makes a difference.

I'll agree with you that the documentation of causes is weak, though.

 

[Dinsdale]

Excellent solops!

All wishes/complaints/rants should be presented so well

 

[unmerged(3168)]

Another thing I've notice with revolt risk in 1.02 is that when your at war all non state culture pop seem to have a revolt risk attached to them. I noticed this playing Piermonte at first I thought is was just from Crime but then I realised it was only occuring in Sardina (south Italian culture) and the 3 provinces containing french POP's.

 

[solops]

"Well, Captain, back so soon? What news?"

"Nothing Major. There has been no help from the net, which seems as confused as we are. We have a theory, though.

"Well, spit it out, man!"

"Sir, what if our inability to decipher the rebels' discontent is intentional? What if our own govenrment intends to publish the data decoding key we need as a separate document and then charge us for access to it!"

"Great guns, Captain! Do you think the bean counting bureaucrats running the show could get away with it? Why, our defense budget would be even further depleted!"

"We don't know, sir. There have been precedents, with data disseminiation primarily through a shadowy international organisation known only as "Prima". Countless governments have sunk oodles of money into often futile efforts at gleaning additional information about their problems but purchasing data from them."

"It can't be, Captain. The rebellion cause issue is too big, too basic. It has to be solved at the basic program level. Nevertheless, I will pass on your concerns to the High Command. Surely guidance will come."

 

[Voshkod]

Oh, and here's a real question for you...Why is Muammar Qaddafi only a Colonel? Heck, he's the ruler of a whole darn country, and he's only a Colonel? You'd think he could be Supreme Grand Uber-General, wouldn't you? Or at least general...

Someone (I don't remember who) once noted that the worst job in the world had to be sitting on Qaddafi's promotion board and telling him that, yet again, he didn't have what it takes to be a general....

V.

 

[unmerged(3999)]

Funny.

What makes it difficult is the tax/tariff relationship. Lower taxes and militancy drops, right? Well, with 1.02 you make your money by taxes, so lowering taxes means you need tariffs to make up the shortfall, but then the POPs can't buy anything!

Either I'm right, really stupid, or I just haven't figured it out yet.

I haven't noticed POPs having trouble with daily needs due to tariffs. In fact tariffs sure seem to be the big money-maker in 1.02. I was shocked by how much even a 20% tariff pulled in with Brazil.

Sure, it drives free-trade POPs nuts, but I just conscript them... shuts 'em up nicely.

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

Go to the ledger, find the page where it lists all your pops (p. 7 or so, IIRC), sort by militancy, descending. Hover the mouse over the numbers and you'll learn why your militancy (and hence, RR) is so high.

 

[unmerged(7024)]

Unfortunately, militancy and revolt risk are completely disconnected. I've sat there watching a farmer who was bothered by almost nothing become steadily more likely to revolt; the militancy was 1 and falling, while the the revolt risk was going up steadily.

The only thing that was bothering this pop was representation (minorities were second class citizens); but all the other social, economic, and political modifiers were neutral or negative. The nation was at peace, too. This Pop was about to be massively stupid because it was so bothered by it's lifestyle that it's militancy and consciousness were declining? What's right with this picture?

 

[unmerged(23865)]

Yuri is right. Even 0/0 (m/c) pops may have steadily increased revolt rates. As i know, there are some reasons.

In my game which i play as Korea ( 1.02 / very hard / agressive / edited as independant ), Newly conquered people's revolt risk increase 0.01% per every 5~6 days. When I conquered japan which have 99% japanese and 1% ainu culture, Both japanese and ainu pops showed such a case. I conquered japan in jan. 1846, and in jan. 1856 these pops' revolt rates are 6.xx%. All provinces of japan are covored by rebels, but some day of jan. 1856 the revolt rates were set to 0 % surprisingly though they have many rebels on the territories. So I think crazing rebels period is 5-10 years after conquering new lands.

After that, japanese & ainu pops revolt rates increase again when i have war with other civilized nation. Though the enemy nation don't have any pops which have japanese or ainu culture. The rate of increasing is 0.01% every 10~12 days.

When i was in the war and time did not pass 10 years since i conquered new nation, revolt risks of pops are on the increase at the rate of 0.01% every 1~5 days. Therefore, two factors' effects could be accumulated.

And one more reason that i've found is political. Such a revolt risk were eliminated by altering monarchy to democracy in one of my game.

 

[Fawr]

POPs seem to have three causes for revolts. Either high military/conciousness, war-exhastion or nationalism. You can't just give people who have been starving for years a bit of food and hope they just get happy, you need to give them food for some time.

Nationalism is a special case that doesn't seem well documented, but it seems to happen when you conqure a new province, and increase as time goes by. However no-one seems to be willing to detail how it works.

 

[Darkrenown]

POPs seem to have three causes for revolts. Either high military/conciousness, war-exhastion or nationalism.

Also, having no cash reserve makes pops revolt. I was horrbily confused when I saw 0/0 pops revolting constantly untill I noticed I had taxed them dry. Whoops.

As for the original poster, I thought it reasons for revolt were pretty obvious, stuff that raises mil/con is bad and stuff that reduces it is good.

 

[unmerged(5083)]

by the way

recently I had a cavalry-unit which suddenly revolted and fought against the rest of the army. What could be the reason, I neither was in war with somebody no smashed a revolt.

 

[Tex]

...
In my game which i play as Korea ( 1.02 / very hard / agressive / edited as independant ), Newly conquered people's revolt risk increase 0.01% per every 5~6 days. When I conquered japan which have 99% japanese and 1% ainu culture, Both japanese and ainu pops showed such a case. I conquered japan in jan. 1846, and in jan. 1856 these pops' revolt rates are 6.xx%. All provinces of japan are covored by rebels, but some day of jan. 1856 the revolt rates were set to 0 % surprisingly though they have many rebels on the territories. So I think crazing rebels period is 5-10 years after conquering new lands...

I have noticed the same thing... I think that Paradox should have done it the other way... Start off the nationalism revolt risk at 6% or so, and over a 5-10 year period decrease it, allowing for things like high education and crime fighting to more rapidly decrease it, if coupled w/ lower taxation or the like.

As it stands, currently I think the revolt risk for nationalism is backwards, IMO.

 

[Darkrenown]

by the way

recently I had a cavalry-unit which suddenly revolted and fought against the rest of the army. What could be the reason, I neither was in war with somebody no smashed a revolt.

An inf div just did this to me. I'm not sure if there's always a check for rebeling or if it's only troops near a high RR province or if it's only checked when rebels actually break out. Anyway reliabliity is what is checked when troops rebel. Without a leader troops have -1, but some leaders also give + or - reliabliity. Troops not of state culture have another -1 too. As well at that I think there is an added chance of troops rebeling when a pop of there own culture rebels.