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Apr 6, 2004
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One of my favourite part of WWII history was all the crazy secret weapon schemes that the germans came up with. Unfortunately this has never been included in the HoI series.

In fact, there is nothing secret about the "secret weapons" in HoI; there is really nothing to differtiate them from common techs. So for HoI3, I suggested including some of these real secret weapons: things like the Paris gun, ultra super big huge heavy tanks, super long range bombers, and various whacky experimental seaplane and CAS designs. The key for these secret weapons is that they require huge amount of research, but there is a chance that they will never work.

But that's ahistorical, you say. Well I say it's even less historical to have absolute certainty about having the desired return on your research. Germany invested in these experimental research precisely because there was no way of knowing whether they would work or not, just as the US was no more certain that the atomic bomb theory would work when they started the project: there's always an element of gamble in experimental research.

To model this, the secret weapon techs could simply require a basic amount of research. After this is satisfied, a chance of success is randomly determined for this project. This chance would work like a random event; and the player can continue to research this project in hope of having it succeed one day or they can cut the losses if he thinks it unlikely to produce result.

Of course the base time requirement and the chance of success would be modified by the "tech expertise" system of HoI3 as mentioned in the dev diary; but there's no conflict with the new system as far as I can see.
 

Battlecry

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Just to point out: the Paris Gun was a WWI weapon. Otherwise I'm neutral on this one.
 

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Captain
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THE_SPLIT said:
I doubt this will happen as all these could be classified as "freak weapons" that were never produced in mass and were dead end of their evolutionary tree!
That's true, but the point is that these are all "freak weapons" on hindsight. At the time there was no way of telling that they wouldn't have worked.

My main gripe is that in HoI there is zero risk involved in research -- what you see is what you get -- and that's just plain unrealistic. Even today, for every successful military tech application, there's a dozen failed experiments. To limit our research option to things that are guarenteed to work is, well, not very historical.
 
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THE_SPLIT

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uly said:
That's true, but the point is that these are all "freak weapons" on hindsight. At the time there was no way of telling that they wouldn't have worked.

My main gripe is that in HoI there is zero risk involved in research -- what you see is what you get -- and that's just plain unrealistic. Even today, for every successful military tech application, there's a dozen failed experiments. To limit our research option to things that are guarenteed to work is, well, not very historical.

Yes but one could also argue, say in a HOI2 research model, that the research time already includes all these "freaks" and "mistakes". SO for example research of a heavy tank includes proposals and evalutions of tanks like Ratte and Maus and their rejection!
 

Alexander Seil

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In HoI2, you're never guaranteed that you will be ever able to use the secret weapon, even if you meet all prerequisites (since the secret weapons are only unlocked via a random event). That basically simulates the "dozens of failed experiments."
 

Amallric

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Those weapons are so fun :p That would be like a gamble: either you're unlucky and get nothing while your opponents get traditional weapons, or you make a breaktrough and get some über-Vergeltungswaffen that ftw! :rofl: Great idea!
 

Alex_brunius

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Id love to se Radar be treated as a secret weapon. It would give the secret weapons techtree some techs for earlier years and our widespread usage of it today makes it one of the most powerful "secret weapon" of that time next to rockets and nukes.
 

THE_SPLIT

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Alex_brunius said:
Id love to se Radar be treated as a secret weapon. It would give the secret weapons techtree some techs for earlier years and our widespread usage of it today makes it one of the most powerful "secret weapon" of that time next to rockets and nukes.

Would love to see radar actually working in HOI3 :rolleyes:
Secret weapons that worked (such as V-2etc) and did not (tanks such as Ratte and Maus) are two different animals thought and should be treated as such
 
Aug 3, 2008
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How about the american batbomb, the soviet bombdogs or the british ice-air carrier etc.

I think it's a bad idea. The gameplay suffers, none of the weapons had any impact. As i see it, it adds nothing.
 
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unmerged(94130)

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Why just for Germany ?

uly said:
Paris gun

It's a gun with a very long tube...
It's not revolutionary and not very usefull...

uly said:
ultra super big huge heavy tanks

There is a super heavy tank brigade...
And super heavy tank are not German monopoly :D

uly said:
super long range bombers

The Me-264 ? The Ju-390 ?
They didn't reach New York...
The Peacemaker is an intercontinental bomber and it is American :)

uly said:
various whacky experimental seaplane and CAS designs

Or how unnecessarily spending ressource...
It doesn't mean that these planes will be more efficient...
The good is the ennemy of good...

Alex_brunius said:
Id love to se Radar be treated as a secret weapon. It would give the secret weapons techtree some techs for earlier years and our widespread usage of it today makes it one of the most powerful "secret weapon" of that time next to rockets and nukes.

I agree and several types of radar.
Airborne, naval, and monitoring radars :)

Svetter said:
How about the american batbomb, the soviet bombdogs or the british ice-air hangar etc.

I think it's a bad idea. The gameplay suffers, none of the weapons had any impact. As i see it, it adds nothing.

What is the American batbomb ? :) and the English ice-air hangar ? :)
 
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I think the biggest point is not about secret weapons, but about reducing the immense hindsight we have - and the OP's suggestion is one I agree with, as it contributes to having a more realistic experience - you cannot always know where are you heading to.
 

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DvD-IT said:
I think the biggest point is not about secret weapons, but about reducing the immense hindsight we have - and the OP's suggestion is one I agree with, as it contributes to having a more realistic experience - you cannot always know where are you heading to.

But this is already factored in via the research times!