• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

AzCrazyDiamond

Corporal
46 Badges
Jul 20, 2020
32
4
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I just inherited my empire, and I am an outward catholic but secret Shia. I can see several of my vassals are also secret Shia. Is there any way I can use this information against them? Like, to arrest or revoke titles? If I send my chaplain to hunt apostates will he actually find them or just accuse random fools? If I refute shia and embrace catholicism, I assume the secret shia society will confiscate my copy of the secret membership roster and I won't know who they are anymore. Ideas?
 

jonjowett

General
80 Badges
Aug 31, 2012
1.733
263
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Your court chaplain will find the secret Shia, albeit at a pretty slow rate - unless he is also a secret Shia, in which case he probably won't find any.

You can't act against them directly (outside of court chaplain actions), but you can plot-murder them. Or you could exploit the AI to revoke their titles - see below.

---

Preparation:
  • Get 1-2 thousand prestige.
  • Pass the religious revocation law.
  • Be at peace.
  • Be stable enough to be able to survive 1-2 months of being of the "wrong religion".
  • Have enough personal power (retinues, mercs, levies) to be able to put down a few vassal revolts.
  • Have a few thousand spare cash for pre-conversion gifts.
Revocation:
  • Mark of the secret Shia as "characters of interest".
    • Once you become publicly Shiite, you will not be able to see the secret Shiites.
  • Personally adopt Shia.
  • Demand conversion from all of the secret Shia
    • Most of them will probably agree, but you may need to offer gifts to some of them (eg. zealous).
    • Don't stay Shia for too long, or your Catholic vassals will start factionating...
  • Convert back to Catholic (eg. from capital - requires 500-1000 prestige).
    • Optional: If you want to maintain your membership of the assassins: pause, become Catholic, become secret Shia, unpause.
  • Revoke all of your Shia vassals' titles.
    • Beware of revolts from powerful vassals / vassals in powerful factions.
---

EDIT:

I just noticed that you're in the secret Shia society, not the assassins. This opens up a different option: become the head of the secret Shia (eg. by targeted murder) and then use the rank 4 power to force the entire society into the open, convert back to Catholic, and revoke. Don't forget to flag secret Shia who aren't members of the society - you can use the demand conversion approach described above during your 1-2 weeks as Shia.

If you are independent and powerful enough, the current head of the secret Shia might force everyone into the open at the earliest opportunity (ie. as soon as they have enough society currency). In this case, there's no need to plot-murder your way to the top.

I think it's also worth pointing out that all of the revokation approaches described above are not at all what your current character would do. If you want to role-play, it would be much more fun to transform your realm from Catholic to openly Shia. Yes, even if you are Scandinavia.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:

AzCrazyDiamond

Corporal
46 Badges
Jul 20, 2020
32
4
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Your court chaplain will find the secret Shia, albeit at a pretty slow rate - unless he is also a secret Shia, in which case he probably won't find any.

You can't act against them directly (outside of court chaplain actions), but you can plot-murder them. Or you could exploit the AI to revoke their titles - see below.

---

Preparation:
  • Get 1-2 thousand prestige.
  • Pass the religious revocation law.
  • Be at peace.
  • Be stable enough to be able to survive 1-2 months of being of the "wrong religion".
  • Have enough personal power (retinues, mercs, levies) to be able to put down a few vassal revolts.
  • Have a few thousand spare cash for pre-conversion gifts.
Revocation:
  • Mark of the secret Shia as "characters of interest".
    • Once you become publicly Shiite, you will not be able to see the secret Shiites.
  • Personally adopt Shia.
  • Demand conversion from all of the secret Shia
    • Most of them will probably agree, but you may need to offer gifts to some of them (eg. zealous).
    • Don't stay Shia for too long, or your Catholic vassals will start factionating...
  • Convert back to Catholic (eg. from capital - requires 500-1000 prestige).
    • Optional: If you want to maintain your membership of the assassins: pause, become Catholic, become secret Shia, unpause.
  • Revoke all of your Shia vassals' titles.
    • Beware of revolts from powerful vassals / vassals in powerful factions.
---

EDIT:

I just noticed that you're in the secret Shia society, not the assassins. This opens up a different option: become the head of the secret Shia (eg. by targeted murder) and then use the rank 4 power to force the entire society into the open, convert back to Catholic, and revoke. Don't forget to flag secret Shia who aren't members of the society - you can use the demand conversion approach described above during your 1-2 weeks as Shia.

If you are independent and powerful enough, the current head of the secret Shia might force everyone into the open at the earliest opportunity (ie. as soon as they have enough society currency). In this case, there's no need to plot-murder your way to the top.

I think it's also worth pointing out that all of the revokation approaches described above are not at all what your current character would do. If you want to role-play, it would be much more fun to transform your realm from Catholic to openly Shia. Yes, even if you are Scandinavia.
Splendid, thx. Worked as advertised. Demand Conversion is only allowed on a direct vassal so I need to do retractions also, which irks my vice royals. Pandering vassals will also soon convert on their own and won’t switch back. Newly Shia vassals will start yanking titles from Catholics. So this needs to be done fast before it creates an even bigger mess than I started with. This is also a good opportunity to deal with troublesome but loyal catholic vassals by demanding a pandering conversion.

irl, do u think it unreasonable that a (at one time) third-string heir, upon coronation, realizes he must put away secret religions and other such foolishness and start behaving like a true Emperor? Doing what’s necessary to hold together a massive empire? Rounding up former friends who, in any way, threaten the stability of the empire?
 

jonjowett

General
80 Badges
Aug 31, 2012
1.733
263
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
irl, do u think it unreasonable that a (at one time) third-string heir, upon coronation, realizes he must put away secret religions and other such foolishness and start behaving like a true Emperor? Doing what’s necessary to hold together a massive empire? Rounding up former friends who, in any way, threaten the stability of the empire?
What do you think it means for a CK2 character to have a secret religion?

Religion was Serious Business in this time period - remember that you can be literally burned alive if your secret religion is discovered by your liege(*). This character was willing to risk dire punishment for years/decades prior to his inheritance, in order to follow a deep spiritual conviction. To me, it sounds like that kind of spiritual conviction would be more important than petty temporal concerns like "keeping the empire together". He might keep it a secret - eg. if he knew that "coming out" would cause massive unrest and war - but he certainly wouldn't actively persecute everyone who follows the true faith.

However, you could perhaps write an alternative narrative if your character's traits supported it - eg. it's actually quite plausible that a deceitful+cynical+ambitious+brave character would deliberately infiltrate the secret society (with all the risks that entails) in order to take advantage at a later date.

In the end though, this is just my view. Your view (and other people's) will probably be different.

---

(*) It's a little silly that a Catholic liege would burn his vassal for being openly-Shia but secretly-Catholic. However, I view this as a dev oversight rather than intended functionality.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

AzCrazyDiamond

Corporal
46 Badges
Jul 20, 2020
32
4
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
What do you think it means for a CK2 character to have a secret religion?

Religion was Serious Business in this time period - remember that you can be literally burned alive if your secret religion is discovered by your liege(*). This character was willing to risk dire punishment for years/decades prior to his inheritance, in order to follow a deep spiritual conviction. To me, it sounds like that kind of spiritual conviction would be more important than petty temporal concerns like "keeping the empire together". He might keep it a secret - eg. if he knew that "coming out" would cause massive unrest and war - but he certainly wouldn't actively persecute everyone who follows the true faith.

However, you could perhaps write an alternative narrative if your character's traits supported it - eg. it's actually quite plausible that a deceitful+cynical+ambitious+brave character would deliberately infiltrate the secret society (with all the risks that entails) in order to take advantage at a later date.

In the end though, this is just my view. Your view (and other people's) will probably be different.

---

(*) It's a little silly that a Catholic liege would burn his vassal for being openly-Shia but secretly-Catholic. However, I view this as a dev oversight rather than intended functionality.
Thx. Im learning a lot from this game and players. Appreciate it.