Sounds great, I can't wait.
On a lighter note, since monsters and heroes can walk under water in certain parts does that mean somebody can actually make an underwater map? I don't know how fun it would be but I'm curious.
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Sounds great, I can't wait.
On a lighter note, since monsters and heroes can walk under water in certain parts does that mean somebody can actually make an underwater map? I don't know how fun it would be but I'm curious.
I played it one more time. 
It's rather fascinating to now have the save option. Well the behavior is complex, a save with Wizard Guild almost build when reloaded clearly had still random stuff to compute making each reload of this save with some similar characteristics and some different.
It seems that far a save at day 2 there's no more dens random.
I quote two things:
In this last play I did I believed I would lost it. It's the strongest pressure that I got and beat. I got 3 Flying Snakes and 6 Imps very soon with some Undead, Bears and some rare Minotaur. I got ghosts and demons around day 6, Werewolf day 9. I was under pressure and get the highest number of heroes death in first part for all plays I did, involving a quite slower progression and apart a very close Snake Nest destroyed soon, the closest den was ghosts and I could not explore more far.
That's also the first map where I got dragons. Also very good I got a Portal ie Temple place not too far from castle and with no guards and in back of castle. But I succeed to take back control only very late after to have finally get Elves and Dwarfs. It's after day 50 than I finally destroyed the second den, the ghosts and then could build later the temple without to have it threatened.
It's a fun Heroes Test due to the pressure and the hard situations than can occur. It's cool get temple to get more diversity and try them more. It's probably the only map where they don't seem overpowered.
It's rather fascinating to now have the save option. Well the behavior is complex, a save with Wizard Guild almost build when reloaded clearly had still random stuff to compute making each reload of this save with some similar characteristics and some different.It seems that far a save at day 2 there's no more dens random.
I quote two things:
- In some plays the bridge is broken which is logical as heroes can't use it. But in most plays it isn't and that's not very logical.
- I had a strange behavior in this play but also in my previous play: Heroes seems attracted by something at South east corner around the highest mountain. That makes heroes rush here to attack. In previous play Castle was close to bridge on east part of the river but it was still an occasional nuisance. In last play Castle was south west of west side of the river and the nuisance was higher. I got a elf reaching the first this part through a lot of unexplored area and many monsters but didn't succeed quote anything. And not sure when it stops.
In this last play I did I believed I would lost it. It's the strongest pressure that I got and beat. I got 3 Flying Snakes and 6 Imps very soon with some Undead, Bears and some rare Minotaur. I got ghosts and demons around day 6, Werewolf day 9. I was under pressure and get the highest number of heroes death in first part for all plays I did, involving a quite slower progression and apart a very close Snake Nest destroyed soon, the closest den was ghosts and I could not explore more far.
That's also the first map where I got dragons. Also very good I got a Portal ie Temple place not too far from castle and with no guards and in back of castle. But I succeed to take back control only very late after to have finally get Elves and Dwarfs. It's after day 50 than I finally destroyed the second den, the ghosts and then could build later the temple without to have it threatened.
It's a fun Heroes Test due to the pressure and the hard situations than can occur. It's cool get temple to get more diversity and try them more. It's probably the only map where they don't seem overpowered.
Well well
I'm currently working on a new version, and got nearly done.
Good news, it was easier than I think to get through the problem of guardian. For what I've tested until now, I've no longer 20 ghost sneaking around a lair.
Bad news, and I don't know if I could get through, Heroes need a lair. And so, I can not get waves of heroes going into, because they have no lair to get in, and if their lair is destroyed, they go away, like the ice mages.
Also the bridge is purely decorative, because, I can get a way to go under it, but not on. You will see people walking underwater and reappearing on the otherside.
And water in majesty 2 is not like water in other standard game. It's more like a decorum surface. Definition is done by unwalkable area, and a non tangible film of water color. In this way, you could have a hole of unwatered area near water. So it's possible to have an underwater map.
I'm currently working on a new version, and got nearly done.
Good news, it was easier than I think to get through the problem of guardian. For what I've tested until now, I've no longer 20 ghost sneaking around a lair.
Bad news, and I don't know if I could get through, Heroes need a lair. And so, I can not get waves of heroes going into, because they have no lair to get in, and if their lair is destroyed, they go away, like the ice mages.
Also the bridge is purely decorative, because, I can get a way to go under it, but not on. You will see people walking underwater and reappearing on the otherside.
And water in majesty 2 is not like water in other standard game. It's more like a decorum surface. Definition is done by unwalkable area, and a non tangible film of water color. In this way, you could have a hole of unwatered area near water. So it's possible to have an underwater map.
Is it possible to make a lair off screen for waves of heroes to spawn from? It seems like lairs sometimes spawn randomly off screen, or maybe waves just come from the same area.
The temple heroes are really useful but one problem I have with them spawning in random locations is suicide tax collectors. If a portal(holy grounds) spawns across the map my tax collectors will actually try to walk all the way to the temple to pick up some gold. This isn't your fault, it's a problem resulting from not allowing us to remove a building from the tax route. Any suggestions on how to get around it? I can put a protect flag on my collector so he doesn't die but that only works if I'm not busy and actually see him leave town. I can extort gold but again that only works if I notice the tax collector leaving town. This problem is also one of the reasons we can't have an inn on the frontier but that's another subject. I'd like to figure out a way around this limitation. When you were looking in the files did you happen to notice a way to remove a building from the tax route, or from receiving taxes at all? Maybe if temples can't be removed from the tax route we can make it so temple heroes don't pay taxes at all. It's not an ideal solution but I'd rather lose a small amount of taxes than lose a tax collector, especially since they sometimes decide not to respawn if I have more than two of them.
The temple heroes are really useful but one problem I have with them spawning in random locations is suicide tax collectors. If a portal(holy grounds) spawns across the map my tax collectors will actually try to walk all the way to the temple to pick up some gold. This isn't your fault, it's a problem resulting from not allowing us to remove a building from the tax route. Any suggestions on how to get around it? I can put a protect flag on my collector so he doesn't die but that only works if I'm not busy and actually see him leave town. I can extort gold but again that only works if I notice the tax collector leaving town. This problem is also one of the reasons we can't have an inn on the frontier but that's another subject. I'd like to figure out a way around this limitation. When you were looking in the files did you happen to notice a way to remove a building from the tax route, or from receiving taxes at all? Maybe if temples can't be removed from the tax route we can make it so temple heroes don't pay taxes at all. It's not an ideal solution but I'd rather lose a small amount of taxes than lose a tax collector, especially since they sometimes decide not to respawn if I have more than two of them.
Already though of off world building, but it generate other problem.
First one, enemy heroes will go back at the instant they are low on life, what is miles away from what I search.
Second, it seems that the actual waves procedure will not work at all. An d I have to find a way to rewrite them another way. Except if I succeed to make work this damn pocket action.
For your tax collectors, I've encountered the problem yesterday in my test, with a temple in the opposite side of the bridge. I can suggest you two solution : Destroy all the lair, or raise the threshold of minimum tax for the collector. Generally guild don't stock more than 250 gold pieces.
First one, enemy heroes will go back at the instant they are low on life, what is miles away from what I search.
Second, it seems that the actual waves procedure will not work at all. An d I have to find a way to rewrite them another way. Except if I succeed to make work this damn pocket action.
For your tax collectors, I've encountered the problem yesterday in my test, with a temple in the opposite side of the bridge. I can suggest you two solution : Destroy all the lair, or raise the threshold of minimum tax for the collector. Generally guild don't stock more than 250 gold pieces.
The temples are a complicate problem:
I think the the random of Temple can't be similar to the random of Dens. A sample rule would be that too far isn't useful. Also can't you randomly have a chance of replacing a den removed (because too close of the castle) by a temple with no guards? For tradepost well it's less sensitive and the current rule could be kept for them.
For the bridge just make it broken. You keep the decorative effect but make it a bit more logical the path problem. For the broken bridge I saw in one play one bridge tile was underwater.
For the waves apart if you change the current design they are a very cool thing but not in center of the map design like dens are. In a previous post I mention more variations for dens not for waves and I think it's more important. Like use dens of Lich instead of using only Lich in Ghosts dens.
If waves of heroes is a problem well I don't feel it that important, just my feeling . If (few) dens of enemy heroes could work that would be better. But well if they fight with other monsters or flee too easily or anything those dens could cause many design problems.
EDIT: I forget this point but dens with plenty guards is one of the strong originalities of this map and that make it different. Change that would be quite a waste. I don't mean it can't work differently but I'm against change this map on this point. For another map using a similar system it would be fine to try it different on this point but I vote against changing that in the map.
- Tax collectors is one thing but workers is another problem. And from this point of view tradepost involve similar problems. With the constant streaming of monsters there's many spawn cases where the temple will be useless.
- In original maps building the Temple right into the hot action is the way to go, in this map it won't work if the temple is too far from the castle. Sometimes if you fully clean one side of map you could build temple or tradepost there when you are cleaning the other side. But in those cases then it's often to late to get the temple and get real fun from it.
I think the the random of Temple can't be similar to the random of Dens. A sample rule would be that too far isn't useful. Also can't you randomly have a chance of replacing a den removed (because too close of the castle) by a temple with no guards? For tradepost well it's less sensitive and the current rule could be kept for them.
For the bridge just make it broken. You keep the decorative effect but make it a bit more logical the path problem. For the broken bridge I saw in one play one bridge tile was underwater.
For the waves apart if you change the current design they are a very cool thing but not in center of the map design like dens are. In a previous post I mention more variations for dens not for waves and I think it's more important. Like use dens of Lich instead of using only Lich in Ghosts dens.
If waves of heroes is a problem well I don't feel it that important, just my feeling
. If (few) dens of enemy heroes could work that would be better. But well if they fight with other monsters or flee too easily or anything those dens could cause many design problems.EDIT: I forget this point but dens with plenty guards is one of the strong originalities of this map and that make it different. Change that would be quite a waste. I don't mean it can't work differently but I'm against change this map on this point. For another map using a similar system it would be fine to try it different on this point but I vote against changing that in the map.
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I played once more the map and this time get a very very easy play. In fact some dens generate easier play. In a play I got plenty dens of elementals in last play it was many dens of ghosts, 5 if I remember well. I had also at least 4 dens of Ogres that don't generate pressure on the town. Also get 4 zombies dens that don't generate much pressure and some skeleton dens. I feel that skeleton dens could be a bit late to generate stronger skeleton or that they could generate few more of veteran or snipers, again just my feeling. Also dragons dens could generate 2 dragons attackers sooner and if possible (probably not as wandering dragon is perhaps forbidden for animation reason) dragon dens could have one dragon guard (or not).
In those maps where I got many dens of the same type I feel few minor but visible variations of a same type of den would be fine. It would kept a thematic generate by random but would introduce some sort of diversity. Not sure it's feasible or not but that would be a nice plus, eventually for a future map using a same system. For example variation around Ghosts dens could be have a Lich much sooner and few more later. Or to mix with few Zombies, not too many to not change the Den mood. Some Ghost dens could generate less guards and more attackers. And dragons dens could generate 2 dragons attackers sooner and if possible some dragon dens could have one dragon guard.
In those maps where I got many dens of the same type I feel few minor but visible variations of a same type of den would be fine. It would kept a thematic generate by random but would introduce some sort of diversity. Not sure it's feasible or not but that would be a nice plus, eventually for a future map using a same system. For example variation around Ghosts dens could be have a Lich much sooner and few more later. Or to mix with few Zombies, not too many to not change the Den mood. Some Ghost dens could generate less guards and more attackers. And dragons dens could generate 2 dragons attackers sooner and if possible some dragon dens could have one dragon guard.
I have released an update today, because of save problem and other things like that, but I would apply your latest suggestion in the next one. I don't have much time to discuss today, but we would talk later.
el_kloklo, if you get time, you probably should think about starting a bible for this game, since you seem to be the one way ahead on the knowledge curve. It's an unpleasant task, but oh so ever useful for all other modders. Just a request, anyhow, think about it if you get some time to yourself
Great just download it and now a good reason to play it again.
Most of last suggestions I did was more for a future map using a similar system than for this one. And the broken bridge thing is a detail.
EDIT: I see the first post has been updated and I downloaded the archive again. But it seems I download the same old version. The file have the exact same size and there's still the load save problem.
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my fault, use the wrong URL.
Probably I should use a versioning number in the name.
whatever it's corrected. But same size is normal.
Probably I should use a versioning number in the name.
whatever it's corrected. But same size is normal.
Thanks and yes a version number could help. I'm still playing the new game with the old version I believed to be the new.
I had a temple rather close to castle and couldn't resist play it. I'll probably try the new version later or tomorrow.I had to use fear flag because of the Ice Mage guarding too close to town. After I destroyed the portal and the ice mage, later another ice mage came to the site before I build the temple, I had to kill it. And much later another came again close to the temple but he has left for now. It's first play I see them behave like that.
I also saw the Ghosts den with Ghosts around but Ogres generated and later those generated was ghosts again. Interestingly it seems to be the only Ogres den I saw that generated some rare Ogres attacking the town with a direct walk to town.
If you keep releasing updates I'm never going to have time to play my other games. I'm trying to play Torchlight but I keep going back to your map. Now that I can save I fear I may never play another game again
I'm trying to play Torchlight but I keep going back to your map. Now that I can save I fear I may never play another game again
I don't know if I do wrong manipulation but if the url has changed it seems to be the same contents. There's still the load problem and the .mi has no changes. Well a version number could certainly help.
okay. Uploaded it a new time. It's named 02, and preview picture is different. sorry again.
I know its early and not really related to what you're working on at the moment but is there any indication as to if its possible to add our own units to the game?
Oh and just tried the updated map~10 times in a row and got beaten every time, with less than half the map clear and at around 75 days avatars seem to be spawning one almost straight after the other. Just a heads up.
Oh and just tried the updated map~10 times in a row and got beaten every time, with less than half the map clear and at around 75 days avatars seem to be spawning one almost straight after the other. Just a heads up.
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so it seems the test of building doesn't work... I do not understand why, but well I'll check it at time.
Yes I also get a Homeric play!
I get Rat King at day 75 (or 70 not sure) and later Lich King around day 90 (or 85 not sure).I don't know if you change anything to dens or if it's just random and me that don't fall as soon when it's harder. Also I was at west part and south of this west part so all dens was coming from only one side. But dam that was hot!
I struggle as crazy up to day 50, and at this point I had pain to contain the flow so no question to progress more. But I had to build Elves and Dwarfs that I delayed to get sooner a temple close to town. So after a huge struggle I succeed get Elves and Dwarfs and to keep control back and progress a bit more when at day 75 or 70 not sure I quote a weird thing in my town. The Rat King with a mass of ratmen around, thanks they wasn't moving and Rat King was only attacking the Magic Bazaar so not hurt it really. But The pack of Ratmen was making afraid heroes. I research the Mage Guild area spell and killed all Ratmen in one cast then put an attack flag.
I put my attention back to war front and it had become hot here. So with some attack flags I tried get heroes come here. But I quote not many come and realized I had plenty glued in the fight against the Rat King. I let the fight end anyway as it was close to end. But all of this involved I lost the control of war front. Lost 2/3 mage towers, one guardhouse and one Dwarf tower... and lost the Dwarf Guild and the Elf Guild.
But with a heroic effort I took back control of the front with a large defense flag on a Dwarf tower I started build at front. I keep control, build again the guilds lost and rebuild a set of towers in front. Then I feel optimistic and removed the defense flag to let heroes restore. The error, I lost control of front and at day 90 (or around) the Lich King arrive in town. Few heroes was fighting him but I lost the front controls lost again all towers and the mass of monsters started enter my town from east and well I doubt I could get control back anymore and gave up. Very fun anyway.
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There's an interview on youtube with someone from Paradox (or IC, I can't remember) stating that they intend to give us the ability to not only create maps but also create units. I do not know if they still intend to add the feature or if plans have changed.
Aren't bosses changed in this map? Ok that's not unit creation but still.
I load a save of my current replay of the last version of the map, a save some time back to try beat this map in this play. It was few before day 70 (I didn't save a lot and in fact forgot do any save after, until a save before to give up.
Lol despite I was warned I get beat. Around day 100 the ogre boss coming with standard waves. Around day 107 I quoted the Archmage boss close to my temple with many quires spread around. I clean the squires with one thunderstorm and put a low level flag on the boss the time I get check back he was already dead.
During this time:
That's been enough to break once more the defense but then all towers get destroyed. I'm not sure if it's only the few great elementals that cause it or if hidden in the waves there was another boss.
Again a lot of fun, even if the constant stream after some point of the game just setup a different game that isn't really Majesty 2 anymore.
I'll certainly come back to this save once more but first I'll try start the map again to see if the difficulty really changed beside getting first bosses sooner.
I load a save of my current replay of the last version of the map, a save some time back to try beat this map in this play. It was few before day 70 (I didn't save a lot and in fact forgot do any save after, until a save before to give up.
Lol despite I was warned I get beat. Around day 100 the ogre boss coming with standard waves. Around day 107 I quoted the Archmage boss close to my temple with many quires spread around. I clean the squires with one thunderstorm and put a low level flag on the boss the time I get check back he was already dead.
During this time:
- I get all guilds, one of each, plus 3 lords, plus one temple heroes Beastmasters.
- I get all upgrades of all stuff including blacksmith.
- I progress a bit on Dens destruction and map exploration. All north border explored and clean of Dens (there was few on this area in north east corner) and all east part which is on west side of the river.
- I get some part of my wall defense destroyed, mainly a Dwarf tower in a wall of 2 Dwarf tower in front and close to each other. Mage towers on both side a little back and back to that a guardhouse and another mage tower. But each time I succeed get back control and re build the lost tower.
That's been enough to break once more the defense but then all towers get destroyed. I'm not sure if it's only the few great elementals that cause it or if hidden in the waves there was another boss.
Again a lot of fun, even if the constant stream after some point of the game just setup a different game that isn't really Majesty 2 anymore.
I'll certainly come back to this save once more but first I'll try start the map again to see if the difficulty really changed beside getting first bosses sooner.