• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Tayya

Seglar mot nya världen i 1822
36 Badges
Mar 6, 2007
728
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • 500k Club
Yes, as MattyG told us/me in the main thread, he'd approve a second scenario for Interregnum (1). 1419 is nice, but it does get boring after a while. So, here's our planning thread.

First question: when? MattyG suggested 1490. This is just before the Alternative Reformation sequence, IIRC. I'm not 100% sure which other events will have happened.

Another suggestion (this one from me) is the 1590s, replacing the Polish Rampage savegame. However, there aren't much events or details after 1500 for all countries.

As it is now, I'd recommend a 1490 scenario, and then save 1590 for the future and Interregnum 2.
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
The first big question would be, is the Papacy heading toward the Alternative reformation, or the standard?

Both remain possibilities right up until about 1508, when Saxony (not the Pope) gets to award Luther his bachelor and then his Master of theology. If either fails, the alternative reformation cannot happen. However, we need to know if we want the Alt Ref to still be a possibility. If the Hussites are still around, it cannot happen. Ditto if the Iberian crusade was a success.

I'd say I would prefer noth to have failed (the Hussites and the Crusade) which would also help explain why Germania has not formed and the Wittelsbach are not Emperor Forever.

Matty
 

unmerged(15247)

immortal technique
Mar 3, 2003
1.964
0
my ideas

-al andalus should exist as a strong nation in iberia but the northest 6 provinces or so shall be divided upon other europeans like savoy/bavaria/britany(each owning one). so the assumption shall be that the crusade was partialy victorious but al andalus has reformed itself 100% and thus when scenario starts it is ready to strike for north iberia( and thus trigger a "counter-crusade' of sorts or "jihad". calipath and mameluks/telcemen/marocco shall have same events as the europeans do in GC(for crusade). this would create a good MP start situation(sp too).


-the alt-refomration to have 90+% chance of success. easilly can be done by forcing via event bohemia to go catholic for a WHILE( as ai with an option "a"), only to revert back to reformed later, via event again. saxony option "a" to choose luther.

if catholics FAIL to defend the north iberia(by default ai vs ai they should) then the alternative refomation MUST happen(90+%). otherwise(if christian defend north iberia), the catholics might not need to reform = regular reformation BUT the europeans or at least some of them go technology RANK 2 iif choose to stay catholic( and thus in mp this will ENCOURAGE people go reformed or protestant).
 

unmerged(15247)

immortal technique
Mar 3, 2003
1.964
0
and some present problems with the GC

-al andalus going shiite is a VERY bad choice from game persepective especially in mp(sp too but only about 70% depending on random events).

the main problem for this, is that if it has to go shiite in 1480, al andalus suffers 30 years of great instability(missing on starting colonialization as well)+ an easy target in MP much easier then during the crusade.during this period has huge stab costs and looses much more investments then it could POSSIBLLY gain afterwards becouse shiite tech advantage. keep in mind that having a better tech is only relevant depending on the DATE it becomes available.

having 10% extra tech speed in 1600 for example is MUCH LESS as having it that 1450 when COMPOUNDING the time wich went by with a lesser but more STABLE tech speed. this aspect often gets lost in translation.

so the solution here is that the shiite PROVINCIAL events shall trigger in 1480's as WELL, and not 1520's. and thus al andalus has a realistic chance of making something out of choosing to go shiite. i really found this a huge problem and thus will never ever consider going shiite in present situation.



- going protestant provides NO incentives. as post above says, for any european(westerners) that chooses to stay catholic, there should be events to LOWER their tech speed to RANK 2. and as such most players will feel much more compeled to adopt diffrent state religion other then catholic even if risking 10 years or so of instability. at least going protestant since reformed is an easy step afterwards since provincial religious events give best benefits for that and tons of free conversions.

so if stay catholic post 157o's(or so) = nation LOOSES rank 1 technology( each major european should have such an event where they must choose state religion and tech as such). easy can be done by including this "changetechnology" command in their respective main religious events.
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
and some present problems with the GC

-al andalus going shiite is a VERY bad choice from game persepective especially in mp(sp too but only about 70% depending on random events).

the main problem for this, is that if it has to go shiite in 1480, al andalus suffers 30 years of great instability(missing on starting colonialization as well)+ an easy target in MP much easier then during the crusade.during this period has huge stab costs and looses much more investments then it could POSSIBLLY gain afterwards becouse shiite tech advantage. keep in mind that having a better tech is only relevant depending on the DATE it becomes available.

having 10% extra tech speed in 1600 for example is MUCH LESS as having it that 1450 when COMPOUNDING the time wich went by with a lesser but more STABLE tech speed. this aspect often gets lost in translation.

so the solution here is that the shiite PROVINCIAL events shall trigger in 1480's as WELL, and not 1520's. and thus al andalus has a realistic chance of making something out of choosing to go shiite. i really found this a huge problem and thus will never ever consider going shiite in present situation.



- going protestant provides NO incentives. as post above says, for any european(westerners) that chooses to stay catholic, there should be events to LOWER their tech speed to RANK 2. and as such most players will feel much more compeled to adopt diffrent state religion other then catholic even if risking 10 years or so of instability. at least going protestant since reformed is an easy step afterwards since provincial religious events give best benefits for that and tons of free conversions.

so if stay catholic post 157o's(or so) = nation LOOSES rank 1 technology( each major european should have such an event where they must choose state religion and tech as such). easy can be done by including this "changetechnology" command in their respective main religious events.

This should have been in another thread, beregic.

Nonetheless, I will take your comments on board and make some changes.

Changing religion so significantly needs to have immediate challenges and some short-mid term challenges too, but enough bonuses to make it worthwhile, because unlike the Reformation, it is a choice, not something forced upon Al-Andalus.

Maybe we need some Mutazelite-related events that are beneficial, along with an additional explorer to help sweeten the deal ...
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Here are a few more things I feel ought to be in the scenario:

1. Almujadid Empire 3, Sicily 1

I find this often forms. It's a strong foil to Al-Andalus and a cool threat to the south of the Christian World. However, it means that Sicily is not very strong. Sicily will own Cyprus and Corfu, plus Naples and Apulia.

2. Occitania not Formed ... yet

However, Languedoc remains in play on four provinces, making it a little more likely that Occitania will form, as it needs to gain only one additional province to form it.

3. Bavaria Not the Empeor

The Crusade happened, and failed. While I like beregic's idea about northern Spain, Bavaria maybe has one of those provinces, but has lost the title of Emperor to Savoy. bavaria also has not grown much in Germany.

4. Burgundy, Brittany and France

France has not formed, although it might still. The French minors are all left on one province each. brittany has chosen the path of extending the Parlement to the French and has French culture, but still owns Cornwall. Burgundy has lost its CoT but is the largest land-power in Western Europe.

5. British Isles

Cymru remains on two provinces. Scotland has absorbed York and moved the Capital there. Wessex has booted the Hansa from Anglia and supressed the Lollards. Eire has Galicia, and colonies in Greenland and the Maritimes.

6. Scandinavia

Norway still exists. Nordige has not broken up, although the Reformation will still test that union. Nordrige has lost one province to Norway and one to Finland, who are in an alliance.

7. Eastern Europe


Poland is gone, with its provinces divided between Halych-Volhynia, Hungary and Bohemia. Bohemia is Catholic, with all provinces converted. Halych-Volhynia and the Cossacks are both doing well, so one of them might form Ruthenia, but this has not yet occured. The Teutonic Order is stable and has changed little in size. The Horde has shrunk behind the Don.

8. Levant

KoJ is gone, of course. The Caliphate has expanded but also formed the Order of the Crescent. Mamelukes own at least one of the former KoJ provinces. Byzantium owns Aleppo. The Caliphate has not expanded into persia very much.

9. Balkans

Albania, Bosnia, Wallachia, Moldova and Serbia all remain as single-province minors. Croatia is on 3 provinces. Styria has been lost to Genoa (Istria) and Croatia (Krain). Byzantium has taken bits of the Balkans and Anatolia. It chose the Turkish dynastic path.

10 Germany

Some German minors remain. Swabia has joined with Milan (except Emilia province). Bavaria, Saxony and Swabia are all on about 7 provinces, with the rest as single-province minors. The Hansa have lost Tuscany and Anglia, but gained Vorpommern and Porto and kept their Russian territories.

11. Italy

Sicily as described. The Papal states remain as Marche and Rome, but Siena is independent, as is Tuscany. Genoa has been the big winner with Emilia, Mantua, Romagna and Istria. Not sure if it ought to have lost Malta and/or Sardinia to the Almujadids.
 

Tayya

Seglar mot nya världen i 1822
36 Badges
Mar 6, 2007
728
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • 500k Club
Well, in my opinion most events should have happened as they are supposed to (a. k. a. choice A). The big question is the Alternative Reformation; if it shall be possible, which it should be, the crusade must have failed and Bavaria therefore weakened, which is a non-standard outcome AFAIK - however, this might make Germany more balanced, which would be fine.

I would disagree on Nordrige, however - I'm probably partial though, since the Iceland chain is mine, but I'd like Nordrige and Norway to be warring at scenario start, with Nordrige having the upper hand - but not decisively, and the Reformation might screw them over royally. Perhaps an event for Finland to join in if KAL and NOR are still at war in 1493?

And, if Al-Andalus does not retake the north before a certain date, perhaps Asturias can be made and get aggressive? Just my two cents.

Lastly, would Ane in Friesland have married the head of state of Oldenburg or Kleve? (Zeeland doesn't exist in Interregnum 1 AFAIK)
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Well, in my opinion most events should have happened as they are supposed to (a. k. a. choice A). The big question is the Alternative Reformation; if it shall be possible, which it should be, the crusade must have failed and Bavaria therefore weakened, which is a non-standard outcome AFAIK - however, this might make Germany more balanced, which would be fine.

I would disagree on Nordrige, however - I'm probably partial though, since the Iceland chain is mine, but I'd like Nordrige and Norway to be warring at scenario start, with Nordrige having the upper hand - but not decisively, and the Reformation might screw them over royally. Perhaps an event for Finland to join in if KAL and NOR are still at war in 1493?

And, if Al-Andalus does not retake the north before a certain date, perhaps Asturias can be made and get aggressive? Just my two cents.

Lastly, would Ane in Friesland have married the head of state of Oldenburg or Kleve? (Zeeland doesn't exist in Interregnum 1 AFAIK)

The crusade succeeding is definitely the non-standard outcome, at would shut down the Alternative Reformation, so I strongly disagree that it has succeeded.

Fair enough on Norway/Nordrige. Maybe Scotland has a single Norweigian province? Maybe not.

Zeeland doesn't start the game in play, but it is a revolter.

I think that Ane ought to have chosen the most fun option. Also, we can have it that Bavaria lost Holland to Friesland. Not a standard outcome, but fun.
 

Tayya

Seglar mot nya världen i 1822
36 Badges
Mar 6, 2007
728
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • 500k Club
The crusade succeeding is definitely the non-standard outcome, at would shut down the Alternative Reformation, so I strongly disagree that it has succeeded.

Fair enough on Norway/Nordrige. Maybe Scotland has a single Norweigian province? Maybe not.

Zeeland doesn't start the game in play, but it is a revolter.

I think that Ane ought to have chosen the most fun option. Also, we can have it that Bavaria lost Holland to Friesland. Not a standard outcome, but fun.

Well, perhaps the crusade must fail then. And why not overdo it - Holland to Friesland and Zeeland a vassal, and Pfalz and Mainz free as in the events after a failed crusade. This would make Bavaria a 4-province minor.. Not standard at all, though... but the extra losses can be explained by the random factors - not all wars are scripted!
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Well, perhaps the crusade must fail then. And why not overdo it - Holland to Friesland and Zeeland a vassal, and Pfalz and Mainz free as in the events after a failed crusade. This would make Bavaria a 4-province minor.. Not standard at all, though... but the extra losses can be explained by the random factors - not all wars are scripted!

I think that Bavaria reduced to 4 provinces might be a standard outcome when it is played by the ai and goes on crusade and loses.

Althoyugh, it can also have Ostmarch from Bohemia.
 

Monkii-sama

Lt. General
72 Badges
Mar 13, 2005
1.462
0
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
6. Scandinavia

Norway still exists. Nordige has not broken up, although the Reformation will still test that union. Nordrige has lost one province to Norway and one to Finland, who are in an alliance.

What would be fun if it is Västerbotten that has been lost to Finland and not Åbo. That should be further incentive for them to remain at war for a lot longer in the game.
 

MattyG

Attention is love.
13 Badges
Mar 23, 2003
3.690
1
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
what would be fun if it is västerbotten that has been lost to finland and not Åbo. That should be further incentive for them to remain at war for a lot longer in the game.

ok
 

unmerged(15247)

immortal technique
Mar 3, 2003
1.964
0
I think that Bavaria reduced to 4 provinces might be a standard outcome when it is played by the ai and goes on crusade and loses.

Althoyugh, it can also have Ostmarch from Bohemia.
well, one has to be carfull there or it might end up as teutons did; those teutons are considered and certanly look as a major, however the tweaks brought overtime have had reduced its capabilities a LOT( low income even if manages to expand, continuous instability due to huge stab costs and so on). just by having a bunch of cultures does not mean much.
 

unmerged(15247)

immortal technique
Mar 3, 2003
1.964
0
come to think of russian region...
by 1500 there must be clear established "majors" otherwise further development in mp would be irrelevant if not impossible . at the same time central europe should be the strongest becouse the side nations(around an mp perimeter) always have easier choices of expansions at ai expense.

regardless either teutons won decisive victory in the russian crusade, or boyar league and finland are beefed up at least with increased manpower levels and event chances to get latin techs fairlly soon therafter.