Screenshots with Counters and OOB?

[Peter Wass]

The game tracks each individual ship, plane and tank. The player gets to design his divisions down to the battalion level, even including non-combat battalions such as signal and field hospital. However, organizing your divisions into corps, armies, and army groups is too nitty gritty?

There is quite a difference between designing a template of what any given type of division looks like in your army and individually micromanaging them individually.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, because I liked the OOB for roleplay purposes, but: why do we *need* an OOB in HOI4, given that we are playing political rulers of a country who don't waste their time with nitty gritty micromanagement of which teapot is in which office?

That could be an idea for a DLC. Each nation gets a number of tea services (varied according to tea drinking tradition) which they distribute amongst their generals. The general then gets a bonus relative to the quality of the service, so big plus points for the Royal Doulton with the hand painted periwinkles, but a hefty malus for the arts and crafts shit.

 

[Joppos]

The game tracks each individual ship, plane and tank. The player gets to design his divisions down to the battalion level, even including non-combat battalions such as signal and field hospital. However, organizing your divisions into corps, armies, and army groups is too nitty gritty?

Nitty gritty? With all that have been seen on unit management it would be nothing but streamlining to have the option of subgrouping. Color coding as identification makes sure that you won't want too many general groups, and constantly ctrl+clicking in long lists, or box-selecting on the map is just unnecessary micro for large such groups. With all awesome options for various division types and designs thereof, not to mention the battle planner feature, off-map and zoom-dependent subgrouping would undoubtedly have been very useful for all players.

 

[Gort11]

Using NATO counters for USSR units would destroy my immersion.

 

[adam_grif]

Using NATO counters for USSR units would destroy my immersion.

Still holding out hope for counter dlc that would let you choose nato, soviet, german style counters etc.

 

[Nicolas I]

Using NATO counters for USSR units would destroy my immersion.

What symbols did USSR use at the time of WW2 ?

 

[Zaku]

What symbols did USSR use at the time of WW2 ?

Here you go: http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/takznaki.shtml and http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/takznaki-2.shtml
These were during in the Cold war, I'm not sure if it was the same in WW2.
Google translator does a fair job in translating it.

 

[Peter Wass]

Good job that NATO provided all the generals in WWII with lots of counters to use. We wouldn't want anything which wasn't realistic.

 

[ajarnlance]

The game tracks each individual ship, plane and tank. The player gets to design his divisions down to the battalion level, even including non-combat battalions such as signal and field hospital. However, organizing your divisions into corps, armies, and army groups is too nitty gritty?

I agree totally. Leaving out a command hierarchy with an OOB is a big mistake. it is going to get chaotic playing as the larger nations ... not to mention that it takes away from immersion. I also challenge the idea that this is primarily a POLITICAL simulation. For many of us this is first and foremost a WAR GAME. The screen shots look more like the games I used to play with plastic soldiers when I was 8 years old. At least give some of us the option of having NATO counters instead of sprites, and a professional presentation that looks like a serious war game.

 

[Centerbe]

Oooo a counters arguement, hang about a sec whilst I grab my popcorn.

hahahahaha LOL

 

[dav77-b]

Ummm... where to begin?

Sorry, but there arent counters in HoI IV. What they call counters now are those little boxes below the models.

And there is no OOB either. You can make groups of units (but not sub groups) under one general and name them as you please.

Have you seen that big screenshot with nato counters? Pdox added them in long ago for people like you.

 

[Centerbe]

I agree totally. Leaving out a command hierarchy with an OOB is a big mistake. it is going to get chaotic playing as the larger nations ... not to mention that it takes away from immersion. I also challenge the idea that this is primarily a POLITICAL simulation. For many of us this is first and foremost a WAR GAME. The screen shots look more like the games I used to play with plastic soldiers when I was 8 years old. At least give some of us the option of having NATO counters and a professional presentation that looks like a serious war game.

I got my popcorn....

Depends how OOB is realized in the game, i havevent a good impression of HOI3 OOB. I remember hundreds of lines crossing the screen that certainly didnt the game less chaotic.
Sure OOB add more immersion if realistic. But im not sure in all cases if is wrong sacrifice realism for a better and clear game scheme.

 

[ajarnlance]

HOI 3: I'm invading Russia with Army Group Center. The Soviets send their 51st Army around my left flank so I detach the 5th Panzer Corps and send it North to deal with this threat.
HOI 4: I'm invading Russia with a big blob highlighted by a big arrow. A Soviet medium blob moves around my flank. I detach a smaller blob and send it north to attack the enemy blob.

Which sounds more realistic and has more immersion? This is an HISTORICAL war game supposedly....

 

[No idea]

Have you seen that big screenshot with nato counters? Pdox added them in long ago for people like you.

That is NOT a counter, it is a symbol. Counters are things like the one in HoI 3. And that was what the OP was asking about.

 

[Jazumir]

While i am on the conservative side of this argument (favoring how it was in HoI3, disliking the sprites immensely), in regards to the screenshot modestus posted to demonstrate the on-screen confusion, it should be said, in all fairness, that it didnt look much better in HoI3, with counters on. I just dislike these godzilla-sprites, in whatever game they appear in (which seems to be like every game, these days). Now, if the sprites took a more realistic form, i might be convinced - like a trench along a frontline or barracks in the hinterland, or whatnot. But when i get to see virtually one guy blocking the path of my (one guy) army, probably both shooting it out in point-blank range... ugh.

About the OOB: it seems that there will be two layers in 4, now. Still not quite there, but closer to what i´d like. At least it will be possible, it seems, to have something akin to army groups (called theatre in the game) with a mix of armies and corps (on the same level, called ´command group´ in the game) under it. That might suffice.

 

[ramboversion1]

Hi Guys,

Personally I am gutted about the lack of OOB. I really enjoyed this part of HOI3 and felt like it really made a difference where you placed your generals etc.

I can understand why Paradox have removed this as it somewhat confused new players a little.

I feel a steep learning curve is more rewarding and adds to longevity when you finally a get to grips with the game. It's great when you feel you are learning new things about a game all the time.

I am really looking forward to this game, there are a lot of positives and I feel the negatives can be addressed by the fantastic modding community. (Black Ice!!)

 

[FOARP]

Hi Guys,

Personally I am gutted about the lack of OOB. I really enjoyed this part of HOI3 and felt like it really made a difference where you placed your generals etc.

I can understand why Paradox have removed this as it somewhat confused new players a little.

I feel a steep learning curve is more rewarding and adds to longevity when you finally a get to grips with the game. It's great when you feel you are learning new things about a game all the time.

I am really looking forward to this game, there are a lot of positives and I feel the negatives can be addressed by the fantastic modding community. (Black Ice!!)

Have to be honest and say that for me the OOB actually killed the longevity of the game - the late game just became a nightmare as your forces became so large and the OOB required continual tweaking. Far from being a labour-saver, it became a time-suck.

 

[safe-keeper]

Have to be honest and say that for me the OOB actually killed the longevity of the game - the late game just became a nightmare as your forces became so large and the OOB required continual tweaking. Far from being a labour-saver, it became a time-suck.

Which is a pity, because it wouldn't have required much more work to become a really good system. But yeah, it was a tedious chore to set up, and keeping it organised between advances was just ridiculous.

 

[Modestus]

Have you seen that big screenshot with nato counters? Pdox added them in long ago for people like you.

People like you?

We can with some certainty assume that when people ask for NATO Counters or just Counters they want an option to turn off the Sprites.


Paradox did not add anything to HOI IV for people that dislike Sprites they instead removed an option to turn them off and they did so because the world they have created for HOI IV has an environment that is not conducive to having Divisions represented by what would essentially be 2D objects.


They did add information boxes under each Sprite a method that is taken directly from EUIV and Crusaders Kings 2 that tells the player depending on the level of zoom how many and what type of Divisions they have in a Province , a Region or a Country but it does not represent a single unit as in HOI III though at times it can.


Ironically it is at a level where you cannot see the Sprites that I think the world looks at its best of course that tends to be a top down view and not looking into the side of an anti-aircraft gun that takes up half a province.


To be fair to Paradox I will say that judging a game from screen-shots and even play-throughs can be misleading I will however have a bag at my side for the demo.

 

[Centerbe]

This is an HISTORICAL war game supposedly....

....ummmm.... not so historical

 

[grandad1982]

Hi Guys,

Personally I am gutted about the lack of OOB. I really enjoyed this part of HOI3 and felt like it really made a difference where you placed your generals etc.

I can understand why Paradox have removed this as it somewhat confused new players a little.

I feel a steep learning curve is more rewarding and adds to longevity when you finally a get to grips with the game. It's great when you feel you are learning new things about a game all the time.

I am really looking forward to this game, there are a lot of positives and I feel the negatives can be addressed by the fantastic modding community. (Black Ice!!)

It was confusing as the info you needed about bonuses etc wasn't visible. Mainly though it was tedious to set up and manage. In my opinion of course.

Will wait to see how the new approach plays before I make any firm judgment on the new system.