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Murmurandus

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Amric said:
If you don't have a royal marriage with them....you're screwed...and I don't know that the Pope can do royal marriages. I am uncertain if you can diploannex without having a royal marriage, alliance, and vassalization. At least that was true in EU2...wait....I forget...If you have a royal marriage and then an alliance and get a personal union you might be a peaceful vassilization. I haven't even tried the regular way....<sigh> But I still don't think the Pope can do royal marriages, can he?

Confusing indeed... ;) :D
 

coz1

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With Burgundy and Castile on your side, I might have DoW'd when Venice took Savoy. That is if you can count on them joining in. Must protect those vassals.
 

Vann the Red

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Whoops! Color me embarrassed for missing your earlier works, merrick. Now I have to go back and read more. Still enjoying this one!

Vann
 

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I think you have turned the corner. Next time you get a shot at Sicily, you should take it. It's time to take them down for good.

Assuming you stay allied with Burgundy, you'll likely be at war pretty much non-stop. No problem for the Vicar of the Prince of Peace, right? :D
 

merrick

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Amric - You are correct, the Pope cannot do Royal Marriages. Fortunately, you do not need a royal marriage to diplo-annex (in fact, vassals can't marry either). However you do need a royal marriage to diplo-vassalise or to form a Personal Union. Thus, by a quirk of the game systems, the Pope is condemned to be a warmonger (at least, he is if he wants to expand).

Duke of Wellington - There's an old saying about that, something about better to have them in the tent and pissing out... But yes, I would prefer Burgundy not to land me in any more wars with France than absolutely necessary.
I have been lucky with trading, specifically in getting two good Traders in the first round of advisors and then not having them die in the first few years. +12% to compete chance is huge. OTOH I have been taking the Trade NIs, shifting sliders to favour Trade, and pushing Trade research every chance I get - I find that trading, particularly in Europe early when there are still umpteen Latin-tech countries around, is only worth it if you go all out. It's certainly paid off in ths game.

Enewald - That's the general idea. It may take a little time.

Murmurandus - It all works out fairly simply - If I want to annex them, I have to bash them at least once first. In the case of Modena, once seems not to be enough.

coz1 - If I'd declared in support of Savoy, none of my allies would have joined, since the original DOW was on Savoy, not me. I suppose I could have refused the Call to Arms and then DOWed Venice anyway (without CB), but that's risky in terms of allies honouring. Plus there's the risk that if Burgundy did honour it would overrun Venice and then make a separate peace. Fortunately, however, Venice didn't take Savoy (see map) - Savoy no longer has a coast and (I guess) no-one was prepared to give Venice military access.

Vann - My other AARs are a little different in style, Hope you like what you read.

jwolf - All in good time. I still have Tuscany to deal with. And the problem with Sicily isn't Sicily, it's having to beat Venice or Aragon as well.
 

merrick

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Hungary and Austria go for the Ottomans again. I reach Trade 5. Starting to get into the cheap levels now.

The inevitable finally happens and Hungary is dismembered by the Turk, being left as two disconnected provinces. Austria seems to be doing fairly well, however.

At the fifth time of asking, Modena finally agrees to be annexed, giving me my fifth university as well as a land link to Parma. I ally with Milan immediately. Savoy is still impossible.

Austria pays off the Turk and forms a PU with Bavaria. France, desirous of being interesting, annexes Naxos. Odds on a French-Ottoman war?

Trade 6 reached. I have merchants to spare, so I send some to Novgorod. And now Tuscany wants an alliance. Look, you may not remember what happened the last time, but I do, so dream on.

Riga is the next strange place to want an alliance. OK, they have slightly more chance than Tuscany, in the same way that I have slightly more chance of walking on water than of being assumed bodily into Heaven.

Aragon, supported by Castile, Portugal and Sicily, bravely declares war on Ragusa. Sucks to be Ragusa. Oh, and Venice. Looks like the end of the Sicily-Venice axis. No it doesn't, they're apparently still allied. While being at war. And they said theology was confusing.

With nothing better to do, I look up the odds of forging claims on Genoa or Tuscany. 100 ducats for a 37% chance, both ways. Think I'll pass.

Croatia and Poland join the dogpile on Ragusa. Bye-bye Ragusa.

Gov 4 reached. I consider switching investment to Gov 5 for the next NI, but since I'm already getting over 40 ducats a month from monarch, neighbours and universities it's hardly worth the effort.

Aragon and friends are making a real dog's breakfast of the Ragusan war. Castile has Istria; they land an army in Venice proper but the Venetians beat it up and it has to take refuge in Ferrara.

My. Oh my. A sudden rush of pop-ups announce a big succession war. France vs Austria. Over Burgundy. Burgundy is on the French side, so this could be bad for Austria. Now if I could just scrape up a CB somewhere while they're all busy...

Now the King of Bavaria becomes HRE, even though he's the same person as the King of Austria and Austria leads the PU. However it does mean Austria should have lost their all-empire military access. Maybe I won't wait for that CB.

Venice, despite having two provinces occupied, somehow buys its way out of the Spanish war. Looks like Portugal, not Castile, was alliance leader. They must have been colonising.

I rev up the army and DOW Genoa. No sense in provoking the Austrians if I don't have to. Tuscany decides to come in on their side – and Castile, Burgundy, Milan and Mantua on mine. This should be fun.

I rumble the army into Genoa and ... anyone wanna guess what happens next?

Yup, Clemens junior becomes the fourth Pope in a row to die in battle. Ouch. And Genoa are somehow Land 6 and fielding Condotta Infantry. Double ouch. And Tuscany has taken Siena in 22 days flat.

New Pope is Pius II. Great diplomat, OK general, can't administrate to save his life.

I beat Genoa in Genoa, leave a siege force, beat them again in Parma and drive them into Tuscany – at the price of about half my army. My alleged allies are doing their famous stuffed turnip imitation. Tuscany has a free hand and is popping out armies like nobody's business and sieging everywhere in sight. While I still actually control some provinces I order up some infantry regiments to keep them busy.

In the middle of all this I hit Gov 5 and adopt Shrewd Commerce Practices. Now hopefully I won't lose all my merchants as soon as my Trader dies.

Austria/Bavaria are being overrun by France/Burgundy. France eventually takes Krain, annexes Salzburg and vassalises Riga. Curiously, this is the first province Austria has gained or lost.

Venice sends us a Warning. It's a bit late.

The war is going better as my new regiments come on line and my existing ones recover. I break the sieges, killing off a couple of stray Tuscan regiments in the process, and storm Firenze and Siena.

I reach Gov 6 and can now build Temples. Woot.

Austria inherits Bavaria. Ouch. It must upset the rest of the HRE too – they make the King of Brandenburg the new Emperor.

The remaining military problem is Pisa, which has 6,000 high-tech Genoese holed up in it. I dodge around a bit to make sure the main Tuscan army is absent, then go in with everything.

Crunch. Pius II continues the papal tradition. New man is Benedict XIII – mediocre admin, mediocre diplomacy, positively no martial background. Still I make him a general, and he turns out to have Shock 1, Siege 1, better than some I could name.

I win the battle anyway, with much slaughter on all sides. After it's over, 22,000 Burgundians turn up to help with the siege. It's all right for some. Storm Pisa, send diplomat, Pisa, vassalisation, money.

Tuscany says no, and a day or so later they take Firenze back. Have I mentioned that I don't like Tuscans?

I kick them out of Firenze and storm it. Send the diplomat again. They say no again. Genoa has taken Siena. Kick them out, storm, chase into Pisa. Where are 22,000 Burgundians when you need them?

Beat Genoa in Pisa, losing 750 men against 150. Tuscany has taken Modena. This is getting tedious.

Liguria falls (you'd forgotten I was sieging it, hadn't you?). I retake Modena. Send the diplomats. Tuscany agrees. Genoa agrees.

I force an Alliance on both of them and rationalise armies a bit. Pisa has a University – I now have six of the things. I build a Temple in Siena because it's the only place that doesn't have one.

Pap_1501.JPG

Italy in 1501. I have now vassalised all the North-Italian minors

My Prestige is 38 (positive numbers!) and my reputation is still “respectable”. My manpower, I note, is 0.

Nominally, the Papal States are the second-richest country in the world, behind only France. In practice, I have 10,000 troops and the highest TE on the planet doesn't let me cover my running costs without minting. And while I may be Gov 6, Trade 6, everything else is 2.

To put this in perspective, Burgundy has Land 7, Gov 9 and 60,000 troops. Glad we're allies.
 

Amric

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I believe you have mentioned on occasion your dislike of Tuscans.....Must be something about the sun there....If I remember correctly, that was a period of time in RL that Popes died pretty frequently....Nice work, though. You're well on your way to getting all of Italy under your thumb....
 

coz1

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Gotta love those unis in Italy! :cool: And nice work getting around 2 dead Popes. I guess sometimes you have to sacrifice a few monarchs to win a war. ;)
 

Duke of Wellington

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The Papal States is steaming ahead. If you don't look too closely at those others things, like manpower, military techs, prestige...... Speaking of which I really think you're prestige should be sky high given the number of martyr popes you're producing. I've never seen so many deaths of rulers in battle. I had to laugh at Venice warning you.
 

Vann the Red

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This continues to be excellent, merrick. Much fun.

Vann
 

unmerged(15337)

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merrick said:
To put this in perspective, Burgundy has Land 7, Gov 9 and 60,000 troops. Glad we're allies.

Nice of the game to give you a constant reminder of your humility. ;)

I liked your reaction to having positive prestige at last. :p I know the feeling well!

Now how about that French-Ottoman war you speculated might happen? :D
 

Qorten

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Trade 6 reached. I have merchants to spare, so I send some to Novgorod. And now Tuscany wants an alliance. Look, you may not remember what happened the last time, but I do, so dream on.

Oh, I remember quite well what happened. Hope you give them some good revenge some day.
Now let's hope you don't fall too far behind in land tech.
 

Enewald

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Unification of christian world is still far away.... :)
But looking good anywayz.
 

merrick

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Amric - It's down to me, Venice and Sicily/Aragon. And Venice is running short on friends.

coz1 - Oh, I do, I do. I must have getting on for 10,000 ducats' worth of manufactories I didn't have to pay for - maybe not the ones I would have chosen, but I'm not arguing with 30 ducats/month free Government research.

Duke of Wellington - The problems of a trading state - great income, shame about the rest. And not having cores on 2/3 of my territory doesn't help (ah, the trials of a warmonger). I'm not sure what's got into my rulers (other than spears) - I've been using then extensively as generals because I can't afford real ones, and I've been fighting a lot, but still...

Vann - Thank-you. Please receive a free Indulgence by return.

jwolf - The big boys are scary. France isn't quite as teched up as Burgundy but has even more troops. Then there's Austria, Poland, Castile - I'm closer to the bottom of the armies list than the top.
Oh, and the prophecied Franco-Ottoman war failed to occur (as yet). However we did procure an excellent substitute...

Qorten - Oh, I did, I did (see the second half of the last update). As my vassals, the Doges of Genoa and Tuscany are expected to carry me shoulder-high in formal processions and to wash the feet of beggars every second Wednesday.

Enewald - Unification of the Christian world is something of an ask. But I hope to achieve a meaningful reduction in the number of heretics and infidels.
 

merrick

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I reach Trade 7 and the end of the cheap levels. Land 3 is next and I consider trading my Longbowmen in for Gallowglasses, but decide in the end the higher morale isn't worth the lower shock.

Revolt in Pisa, defeating the army I had stationed there. Amazingly, Pope Benny survives both this and the subsequent counterattack.

Nothing much happens for a year or so until Austria and Burgundy (who are somehow allied despite France winning the succession war) decide to go after the Ottomans. I stand on the sidelines and cheer. I note that Venice has no allies, but I'm not even going to think of moving until my manpower has recovered.

Gov 7 reached, then Prod 3. I have Courthouses if I want them. I decide I can't let my Land tech slip behind any more and settle in for a long slog.

Fifty years into the game and my manpower is back to full. Oh, and Sweden ceases to be, its former territory partitioned by Denmark and England.

Time rolls on. I reach Naval 3. Tum-ti, tum-ti. And then Corsica, supported by the Timurids(!?) DOWs Sicily/Aragon.

Austria takes one province from the Turk. Burgundy is still fighting. I guess they were alliance leader.

Random strangeness du jour – Burgundy and the Ottomans fighting a naval battle in the English Channel. Burgundy seems to be winning the land war in Hungary. And then Austria DOWs France (and friends) in support of Algiers/Morocco. I wish the AI was slightly more rational in its use of warnings/guarantees.

Another EU3 silliness – Burgundy is allied to Austria but nevertheless lets France march through its territory to bash the Austrians silly, which they appear to be doing. Oh, and Urbino finally becomes a core, giving a much-needed boost to my annual taxes.

I get a slider-push and after a certain amount of thinking go Free Subjects instead of another push to Plutocracy. I'm not interested in ships and I don't want to make my troops too expensive.

France bashes the Austrians silly and takes three provinces in southern Germany. I see a Big Blue Blob in my future. Venice and Sicily, I note, are both Land 6, in case I was thinking of trying something. I'm still not up to 4.

Maps start to spread from North America – Castile and England have colonies there. And Burgundy annexes Karaman, just for giggles.

More reports from North America – why is England so keen on colonising Labrador? And why have I suddenly learned about one random province in whitest Asia?

I finally make it to Land 4. At least 5 and 6 are cheap.

Aragon finally gets round to vassalising Corsica (I'd forgotten that war was still going). Burgundy is killing the Ottomans. And Ragusa pops back into existence, when Muscovy forces Poland to release it. Mysterious are the ways of the AI.

Aragon forces the Timurids to release Khorasan. I'm not sure I want to know.

Some actual news from the Papal States when I get a Rush of Merchants event. Of course, since I've already got 5 merchants in every European CoT and a full set left over it isn't terribly interesting news, but there you are.

Land 5 reached and I can chose some new Infantry. Condotta have better stats but Landsnechts have better morale. I'm Italian. I choose Condotta.

A line in the event log warns me that the Reformation has hit. It's 1506. Luther is early. I check the map and find that heresy has broken out in Valencia, Leipzig and Bohuslan. Nowhere near me, then. I would set Protestant tolerance to 0 but that would mean raising the tolerance on Eastern or Pagan.

Mecklenburg is the first state to convert to Protestant. That was quick.

The Burgundy-Ottoman war finally ends. Burgundy forces release of Corfu and takes two provinces in Anatolia. Adjacent to Karaman, so I suppose that makes sense.

The first ever Advisor pops in my territory and it's a level-6 Trader. Umm, let me think about this. No, better not. Hired.

Things have got so dull that Benny actually lets himself die of natural causes. Heretic.

New Pope is Paulus II. Military is his only skill. I need a target. Sicily is under Aragon. Castile likes me slightly better than they like Aragon, but they're on -3 stab so they might not honour. Venice has an army of 14,000 men, and DOWing carries a big risk that they'll storm and annex Mantua or Milan.

Norway DOWs England and brings in Denmark and France on their side, Scotland and Portugal on the other. This could be interesting.

More colonial map-spread. No-one seems to have gone for the Caribbean. Burgundy has a province in Brazil – they must have staged out of the Canaries.

Aragon diplo-annexes Montenegro, just to show they can.

We sell bad wine and it spoils our prestige. Austria and Burgundy are going after the Ottomans again. Looks like driving the Turk from Europe will not be one of my challenges.

I reach Trade 8 and keep going. Portugal doesn't seem to have colonised much of Brazil. Wonder where their money's coming from. Ming has annexed Xia. Don't think I've seen Xia form before.

Hungary gets a province back from the Ottomans and is now a single unit again. Burgundy takes two more provinces in Anatolia. Austria gets nothing.

E_Med_1511.JPG

The Eastern Med in 1511. I haven't expanded, so here are France and Burgundy's conquests instead.

The calendar ticks over to 1511 and I decide to take a break. Protestantism appears to be spreading only in Scandinavia. The Turk is steadily ceasing to be an issue. The Papal States are fourth on the updated income list, behind Ming, Timurids and France.

* * * * * * * * * *

Apologies for the dull installment. Mayhem will resume forthwith.
 

unmerged(15337)

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merrick said:
Oh, and Sweden ceases to be, its former territory partitioned by Denmark and England.

A clearly unacceptable bug, no doubt a top priority for Johan to fix. :p

As your conquests become core territories your resources should improve quite a bit. Sounds like your Papal States are really in pretty good shape. I noticed as the last update ended that you were still looking for a target, and that mayhem would ensue. :D So I guess the **** hits the fan real soon. Good luck!
 

Storey

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That was dangerous letting your land tech fall so far behind your neighbors but the gamble paid off. I’ve learned that when playing a country in that part of the world getting Tuscany as an ally (and keeping it) makes for a much easier game. In several games they’ve shown a predisposition to attack anything and everything around them. They remind me of a rabid rat on steroids who’s looking for trouble. Still it looks like you've got them under control. ;)

Joe
 

coz1

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Indeed, Sicily looks ripe but the risks are considerable if Castile won't join. That was wise. But maybe soon. How's your production tech, by the way? I may have missed that in the post above, but pushing production early always benefits land and naval tech late.
 

Duke of Wellington

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Things have got so dull that Benny actually lets himself die of natural causes. Heretic.
Is a peaceful death really a natural death for the Pope? I would have to disagree with that line. Quiet times for the country but nonetheless interesting given the ai's obsession with doing strange things. Burgundy beating up the Ottomans is bizarre.
 

Enewald

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western european powers want to have land from east. :)
And luther being very young when he begins the reformation is odd.
He is like 23? :rofl: