Do scout planes affect anything in a naval sense? I've tested, and I can see air recon effects on nations next to the water zone I am flying scout planes over, but do they do anything toward spotting for your naval forces, or anything else useful?
Scout planes over water?
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Who knows. The game literally provides no feedback on their use. It's ridiculous.
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In the defines I found:
RECON_PLANE_INTEL_BASE = 0.02, -- intel base amount for a strategic area per plane
and
RECON_PLANE_SEA_DISTRIBUTION = { 0.0, 0.0, 10.0, 0.0 }, -- controls for land and sea zones how much of each intel typee is given (civ, army, navy, air)
So it seems, that scout-planes gives you some amount of navy-Intel for that sea-region.
RECON_PLANE_INTEL_BASE = 0.02, -- intel base amount for a strategic area per plane
and
RECON_PLANE_SEA_DISTRIBUTION = { 0.0, 0.0, 10.0, 0.0 }, -- controls for land and sea zones how much of each intel typee is given (civ, army, navy, air)
So it seems, that scout-planes gives you some amount of navy-Intel for that sea-region.
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I often use them when playing with Italy to increase the speed which my patrols find enemies ships. But i can't say how much of an improvement it is, or if it's worth the investment.
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Well, I was just now playing Italy, and had scout planes in the Med water zones, and the anarchists in Spain (Yes, they won Spain...) died in bunches in the Western Med, and anywhere else they showed up, while I was taking over Spain. (Anarchists have no friends to come to their rescue, you know...) I decimated their navy, at the cost of about 4 DDs, and a couple of lightly damaged BBs, and about 20 naval bombers.
I can't say *for sure* that the scout planes helped that much, but I'm pretty sure they helped spot them. Then again, it could be confirmation bias. <shrug>
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In my understanding of the defines, the scout-planes gives you 10% navy-intel + an daily add of 0.02 %
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I did some tests and found, by performing air recon missions you can gather:
Also couldn't see any effects on spotting or positioning. (But I don't know how spotting works exactly...)
- Civilian Intel: Maximum 25%
- Army Intel: Maximum 20%
- Air Intel: Maximum 20%
Also couldn't see any effects on spotting or positioning. (But I don't know how spotting works exactly...)
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What is the optimum wing size per region?
I typically use 100 scout planes per region. But who knows what is best...
Btw. I set them on night missions only. Again, just guess work.
I typically use 100 scout planes per region. But who knows what is best...
Btw. I set them on night missions only. Again, just guess work.
Who knows? 100 is probably a good guess. However, I would fly them during the day unless you don't have air superiority. Hard to see things in the dark, so I would guess night scouting has a huge penalty.
As others have said, the game has poor feedback as to what scouts achieve. The only way to have a clue is to dive into the defines code. What is needed is better tooltips on scouting.
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Yeah, but going with logic isn't always helpful in HoI4.
My favourite example: unescorted convoys being invincible to 1936 naval bombers and shooting them down like flies. --> research 1940 naval bombers cause they shred all convoys they encounter.
Not really intuitive nor logical. So I wouldn't be so sure when it comes to scout planes in the dark.
Are you sure about that? I'm asking because i heard something similar in the stream of the Devs against the Influencers, where they said that 39' medium tanks can't pierce 20 width infantry well. I was surprised when i heard that. Looks like the game is becoming more and more unbalanced.
I wouldn't say that.
Intel advantage is a combat modifier so you are in a race who gets more intel. 20% Army intel for flying some planes is quite good compared to the other methods to gain intel advantage (radars, spy networks, infiltration).
There are tooltips in the intel window that will show you the effect of scout planes. Tooltips are most certainly a type of feedback.
(It is kind of buried, though, so I understand your frustration.)
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Don't you have to have like hundreds of scout planes to get something like 6% modifier from intel advantage? Scout planes are expensive and I'm doubtful it's ever justifiable to build them instead of CAS or TAC.
Another quick test:
100 Scout planes 1 over Southern England in peace time.
Took from 1.2.1936 to 9.4.1936 to get the +20% Army intel. A bit over 2 month. ~0.3% a day.
At a secon thought, 100 might be too much. You will not produce that much.
With 10 scout planes I keep getting constant 0.03 per day against Belgium AND Netherlands. It would take 670 days then... But you have 1200 days until war.
So maybe 1 or 2 factories on Scout planes may be enough.
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Sorry for keep asking, but how much combat modifier do you get from 20% army intel?
You can get the agency update "Army Department" very cheap (5 CIVs over 1 month) that gives +25% to all army intel. That increases the 20% to 20*1.25 = 25%.
Testing:
For 29.8 vs. 15.3 (= +14.5) I get +3.1% bonus
For 38.8 vs. 16.4 (= +22.4) I get +5.7% bonus
For 39.8 vs. 16.0 (= +23.8) I get +6.2% bonus
Linearization:
bonus = -1.7 * (intel diff) / 3
That gives for intel diff = 25 -> -1.7 * (25) / 3 = 6,63%
That means for the +25% from Scout planes (+ "Army Department") you can get around +6-7% intel advantage modifier.
The intel advantage bonus applies to soft attack, hard attack and breakthrough in offense and SA, HA and defense in defense.
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That was very helpful, thank you! I'll give them a try, they're not as expensive as I thought, I was confusing them with transport planes.
No that's not what I mean. All that Intel screen shows you is a general increase in Intel level which reveals some general stuff about the enemy. It's also way too easy to gain full Intel score on that screen and reveal literally everything about the enemy in my opinion.
I'm talking about direct feedback on exactly how to use the Scout aircraft and exactly what they are revealing when flying in a zone. Can you train Scout Wings? Apparently not. How many should you have in a Wing? No idea. How many Wings do you need in a zone? Who knows. Do Scout Wings directly reveal things in the zone they're in or only add to the overall Intel level? It's not clear and not explained. If Scout Wings do directly reveal things in a zone why aren't they marked/tagged as such? Because reasons.
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