Scotland

[Bas Agus Buaidh]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I strongly feel (yes, I'm Scottish), that Scotland doesn't perform historically. By the start date of EU4, Scotland had won its independence from the English. Indeed, the English had other problems. Despite the fact that there were a number of future skirmishes with the English, these were not game changers. Indeed, the English adopted a 'the Scots wont attack us, let's focus on France', kind of ideology. I think the game should reflect this.

1.

Scotland and England shouldn't start as rivals. If anything, Scotland should be threatened, England domineering. In fact, they shouldn't be valid rival partners.

2.

I agree with the Scottish reliance on the French to guarantee their independence, the issue is, that the French AI is utterly incapable of following through with this. The main reason for this, is that the English fleet is too strong, therefore the French cannot physically help to defend Scotland. As far as I'm aware (non history buff), the English/British fleet was not the world power until after Trafalgar. Strong, yes, but better than the French?

3.

Scotland is too predisposed to allying with the Irish. This means that the English need not even attack Scotland directly, but one of their Irish allys, and therefore circumvent the Scottish-French alliance (should it exist).

Let us not forget, that the United Kingdom was created by a union of crowns where the Scottish king was the superior. I do not suggest that Scotland should become a super power, but at this time, Scotland doesn't exist beyond the mid 16th century unless I involve myself personally.

 

[Mattius]

Scotland is indeed wiped out quickly and ahistorically by England, but it is alternate history type game.

 

[Bas Agus Buaidh]

Scotland is indeed wiped out quickly and ahistorically by England, but it is alternate history type game.

Alternative history is fine by me. If the game proceeded as history did, it would be less a game and more a school lesson. I left school more than decade ago, I don't want that.

I do believe however, that history should be enabled and encouraged by the game. Using for example missions, the AI can be encouraged to follow historical lines. Portugal; "Discover Brazil", Castille; " Discover the West Indies", England; "Protect yourself against France and stop using your ahistorical advantage aginst the Scots".

Britain didn't form until 1707 for a reason. As I've mentioned in the other forum, Scotland was Celtic, not British culture group. Therefore, it wasn't a simple conquer and convert to Britain mission for the English. Indeed, they required a strong Scottish king to unite the thrones.

 

[Mattius]

Alternative history is fine by me. If the game proceeded as history did, it would be less a game and more a school lesson. I left school more than decade ago, I don't want that.

I do believe however, that history should be enabled and encouraged by the game. Using for example missions, the AI can be encouraged to follow historical lines. Portugal; "Discover Brazil", Castille; " Discover the West Indies", England; "Protect yourself against France and stop using your ahistorical advantage aginst the Scots".

Britain didn't form until 1707 for a reason. As I've mentioned in the other forum, Scotland was Celtic, not British culture group. Therefore, it wasn't a simple conquer and convert to Britain mission for the English. Indeed, they required a strong Scottish king to unite the thrones.

I just watched Braveheart last week, and I noticed distinct cultural differences between the Scottish and English, but I have no idea how accurate the movie is.

 

[Bas Agus Buaidh]

I just watched Braveheart last week, and I noticed distinct cultural differences between the Scottish and English, but I have no idea how accurate the movie is.

The swords are accurate. And our inability to tolerate ****holes...

 

[ShadowCammy]

I often see Great Britain in mid 1500, and even early 1500's sometimes. I feel that England should just ignore Scotland mostly, and indeed focus on Ireland and French.
Maybe it's "Muh Scottish nationalism" But I do find it annoying that Scotland is either reduced to colonies, or an island to the north of Britain.

 

[Ashantai]

Scottish is part of the English culture group for gameplay reasons. Originally there were two cultures in Scotland in EU3, a Celtic Highlander and British Lowlander, but it caused such issues with unions that it was abandoned.

I’m not entirely sure what can be done here to strengthen Scotland in a way which doesn’t make it go too far the other way.

Perhaps one of Scotland’s traditions should be increased hostile core creation?

 

[Bas Agus Buaidh]

Scottish is part of the English culture group for gameplay reasons. Originally there were two cultures in Scotland in EU3, a Celtic Highlander and British Lowlander, but it caused such issues with unions that it was abandoned.

I’m not entirely sure what can be done here to strengthen Scotland in a way which doesn’t make it go too far the other way.

Perhaps one of Scotland’s traditions should be increased hostile core creation?

I started playing Paradox games with CK2, so I missed Eu3.

However, in all honesty, I think that point is irrelevant. Completely different game engine.

I think with the recent changes, we should see forts become a powerful defensive tool. Unfortunately, they don't work correctly atm. Also, as I mentioned, the main issue, is that France cannot guarantee Scottish independence, as the English fleet annihilates the French early on. This leaves the French unable to support the Scots.

There are a ridiculous amount of castles in this country per capita (in reality). Perhaps one of Scotland's NI's should be "Protect Against the Sassonachs", -50% Fort Upkeep. And have a fort on every province from 1444.

 

[Ashantai]

There are a ridiculous amount of castles in this country per capita (in reality). Perhaps one of Scotland's NI's should be "Protect Against the Sassonachs", -50% Fort Upkeep. And have a fort on every province from 1444.

Uhh....no, I don't think so. That's a bit excessive considering England has only 1 other fort in mainland England aside from London. And even with -50% upkeep you would still be saddled with a half dozen forts draining your funds.

A smaller modifier is a good idea though as it makes defending Scotland a little easier.

 

[AhoyDeerrr]

There are a ridiculous amount of castles in this country per capita (in reality). Perhaps one of Scotland's NI's should be "Protect Against the Sassonachs", -50% Fort Upkeep. And have a fort on every province from 1444.

You do realize that would not help Scotland a single bit right? It would just cause the English victory to take longer. I do not really agree with the change either, seems incredibly arbitrary.

What actually needs to happen is an overhauled combat system to account for things like guerrilla warfare, making it harder to fight wars outside of your own country and generally bringing the gap between large and small nations closer together.

The idea of buffing countries to try to force the game to turn out historical is ludicrous to me, the game is full of ahistorical happenings.

they required a strong Scottish king to unite the thrones.

Not really true, what actually forced the union was Scotland's horrendous debt at the time and the Scottish parliament's susceptibility to bribery. By most accounts the Stuarts that ruled during the union of crowns were generally terrible.

 

[Pigeoncount]

AI Scotland is doomed without player intervention, in almost every game. I have seen it survive, very rarely, but usually due to England falling apart completely, and them jumping on its corpse. Scotland suffers from England's navy making AI support impossible in almost any case, and the game not having the depth required to simulate things like guerrilla fighters, as the above poster mentions. Without major changes to how the game works, I can't see Scotland having a more "historic" game in all but the rarest of situations, but here's hoping.

 

[Bas Agus Buaidh]

Interesting points, and disregarding forts (which don't work properly anyway), I think the focus is on France.

As I mentioned, the 'Auld Alliance' was critical to Scotland, and helped to divert English intentions towards Ireland. The problem is, France cannot compete with the English navy, and as such cannot support Scotland.

The points as regards to guerilla warfare....as far as I'm aware, Scotland (at least the kingdom), never engaged in this kind of warfare. At least externally. Whenever we fought the English (we rarely fought anyone else), we fought them on a field. Much to our discredit at Flodden.

Massive, and crazy change, but should there be a land bridge from France to England?

 

[magnusvejby]

Interesting points, and disregarding forts (which don't work properly anyway), I think the focus is on France.

As I mentioned, the 'Auld Alliance' was critical to Scotland, and helped to divert English intentions towards Ireland. The problem is, France cannot compete with the English navy, and as such cannot support Scotland.

The points as regards to guerilla warfare....as far as I'm aware, Scotland (at least the kingdom), never engaged in this kind of warfare. At least externally. Whenever we fought the English (we rarely fought anyone else), we fought them on a field. Much to our discredit at Flodden.

Massive, and crazy change, but should there be a land bridge from France to England?

Plz no land bridge coz the AI is too stupid to blockade straits, then France walks to England with 30 stack and then he conquers all of the British Isles.

Edit: The smiley looks so stupid on this forum