Scotland in 867: From Pictland to Alba

[riadach]

I'd assume that the fracturing wouldn't occur if all the Norse provinces are under a singe ruler, but it's a good question to get clarified.

Perhaps most titles will be titular to begin with, eventually provinces drifting into de jure, which is what happened historically. I would like special creation conditions for those kingdom titles. De jure would mean little to a pagan.

This would be . . . bad.

Too bloody right. There apparently already is an option in the game whereby people of the same religion would respond to an invasion. I think they should extend this to culture, increasing the likelihood of a broader response to these invasions.

I like the idea of landless characters as described in the interview. This should allow a lot more trouble in Irish tanistry succession arrangements.

 

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Excerpts from a Miscellanea of Sources Related to Scotland

Chronicle of the Kings of Alba: This is a text that was first compiled probably towards the end of the eleventh century and likely incorporates an earlier Pictish Chronicle. From c.862-877 the King of the Picts was Constantine (Causantín mac Cináeda), and here is the entry on his reign:

Constantine, Kenneth's son, reigned for sixteen years. In his first year, Maelsechlaind, king of the Irish, died ; and Aed, Niall's son, held the kingdom. And after two years, Olaf, with his Gentiles, wasted Pictland, and dwelt in it, from the Kalends of January to the feast of St Patrick. Again in [Constantine's] third year, Olaf, drawing a hundred [ships], was slain by Constantine.

A little while afterwards, a battle was fought by him in his fourteenth year, at Dollar, between Danes and Scots ; and the Scots were slain, [and driven] to Achcochlam.

The Northmen passed a whole year in Pictland.

This is a section where you can really see the influence of the earlier chronicle and the much later compiler working together.

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Chronicle of Melrose:

After him, Constantine became king, for 15 years; he was the son of king Kenneth. Fighting in battle, he fell by the arms of the Danes. The place where the battle was fought is called Black Cave.

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The Prophecy of Berchán: This Pseudo-Prophecy is a text that was probably written in the 12th or 13th centuries, though it purports to be an earlier prophetic text. It's easy to maintain a 100% prophetic record when you're writing after the events in question.

Another young king will take [sovereignty]; welcome [to those] who pray for it !
The cow-herd of the byre of the cows of the Picts (i.e. the King is the cowherd, his people are the Picts thus he acts as their protector), the fair, tall one, the lavish giver of wine.
There will be hazard (?) through which three battles will be gained, over the Gentiles of pure colour;
a fourth battle, the battle of Luaire, against the king of the Britons, of green mantles.

Welcome to Scotland, of which he will take possession ; but short the time he will enjoy her.
The king will have five years and a half (a pure space ) as king of Scotland.
(Two lines are missing from the surviving manuscript)
[He will fall] on Thursday, in pools of blood, on the shore of Inber-Dub-roda. (Possibly the same place as the Black Cave alluded to in the Chronicle of Melrose)

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Here's one of the last contemporary mentions of the Picts:

AD 874 (875) An encounter of the Picts with the Black Foreigners, and a great slaughter of the Picts was committed.

This entry was explained by earlier historians as a 'Last Hurrah!' of sorts by the Picts, but modern historians are more apt to treat it as one incident amongst many Viking incursions.

*Edit* Here's the corresponding entry from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle:

A.D. 875. This year went the army from Repton; and Healfden advanced with some of the army against the Northumbrians, and fixed his winter-quarters by the river Tine. The army then subdued that land, and oft invaded the Picts and the Strathclydwallians.

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Landnámabók: This is interpreted in two different ways, depending on whether Ketil's 'active period' is assigned to the mid Ninth century, or the latter. Obviously only the first interpretation makes this relevant to the 867 start date:

Ketil sailed west and left in his place Biorn, his son. Ketil subdued all the Hebrides, and made himself lord over them, but paid no tax to king Harold, as had been intended. Then king Harold took to himself [Ketil's] possessions in Norway, and expelled [Ketil's] son Biorn.

Eyrbyggja saga:

And when Ketil came west beyond the sea, he had some battles, and always won the victory. He laid the Hebrides under him, and became lord over them. Then he made alliances with the greatest lords who were to the west of the sea, and bound himself to them by marriage-ties ; and he sent the army east again.

And when they came to king Harold they said that Ketil Flatnose was lord in the Hebrides, but they said they knew not that [Ketil] would bring under king Harold the dominion to the west of the sea. And when the king heard this he took under himself the possessions that Ketil had had in Norway.

 

[riadach]

Originally Posted by Annals of Ulster

AD 874 (875) An encounter of the Picts with the Black Foreigners, and a great slaughter of the Picts was committed.

Originally Posted by Anglo-Saxon Chronicle

A.D. 875. This year went the army from Repton; and Healfden advanced with some of the army against the Northumbrians, and fixed his winter-quarters by the river Tine. The army then subdued that land, and oft invaded the Picts and the Strathclydwallians.

Just looking through the Annals of Ulster, and I'm seeing a lot of potential identification between the Great Heathen Army and the Dubghaill.

Bellum for Saxanu Tuaisceirt i Cair Ebhroc re n-Dubghallaib, in quo cecidit Alli, rex Saxan Aquilonalium.

The dark foreigners won a battle over the northern Saxons at York, in which fell Aelle, king of the northern Saxons.

This could only refer to the Great Heathen Army. And as mentioned before from Chron Scottorum (which must share a source with AU):

Belliolum occ Loch Cuan eitir Finngenti & Dubgennti in quo Albann, dux na n-Dubgenti, cecidit.

A skirmish at Loch Cuan between the fair heathens and the dark heathens, in which Albann, king of the dark heathens, fell.

So in these instances we have a Albann (d. 878) leading dark foreigners, and the dark foreigners involved in the destruction of York and the death of Aelle king of the Saxons. Of course then, this Albann is to be identified with Halfdan (d. 877) and not Halfdan the Black from the Westfold, but Halfdan, leader of the great Heathen Army. This of course, given the identification of Albdann as king of Lochlainn in the Fragmentary Annals, that Danelaw was considered part of Lochlainn. The old identification then of Danes with the Dubhghall may not be so inappropriate, if we identify Dane with Danelaw. Given the Dubghall involvement in Ireland, it's certainly plausible then that Amhlaíb and Ímar were involved in the Great Heathen army and Ímar was indeed Ivor the Boneless.

 

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This of course, given the identification of Albdann as king of Lochlainn in the Fragmentary Annals, that Danelaw was considered part of Lochlainn. The old identification then of Danes with the Dubhghall may not be so inappropriate, if we identify Dane with Danelaw. Given the Dubghall involvement in Ireland, it's certainly plausible then that Amhlaíb and Ímar were involved in the Great Heathen army and Ímar was indeed Ivor the Boneless.

If we restrict ourselves to a narrow time period your comments regarding Dubhghall make a lot of sense, it's when we add in the later chronicles that the term becomes less useful. Imar's involvement with the great Heathen army I don't think is seriously disputed, though I would be wary of adding Amlaib's involvement. The chronicles indicate his activity in Ireland during the absence of his brother, and given the importance of the winter-camps during the movements of the Great-Heathen army, I don't see it likely that Imar was moving back and forth between there and Ireland at the 867 start date.

Given the problematic history of the fragmentary annals already mentioned, I feel more than a bit of trepidation in assigning too much import to the use of Lochlann in that particular entry, and when it comes right down to it there are half a dozen or so reasonable distributions of Norse territory when it comes to Ireland and Scotland.

I'd be curious to see how you'd prefer to distribute the provinces of CK II in Ireland for the 867 start. A province by province breakdown might help prompt some more Irish discussion as to how it should be best represented. I do like many of the ideas you mentioned in an earlier post, and I think they're worth expanding upon.

 

[riadach]

Given the problematic history of the fragmentary annals already mentioned, I feel more than a bit of trepidation in assigning too much import to the use of Lochlann in that particular entry, and when it comes right down to it there are half a dozen or so reasonable distributions of Norse territory when it comes to Ireland and Scotland.

Very true. But I think even Ó Corráin suggests that Lochlainn refers not merely to Scotland, but Scottish holdings in Britain. The interesting thing about AFrag though is that it doesn't seem to identify Lochlainn with Norway either.

I'd be curious to see how you'd prefer to distribute the provinces of CK II in Ireland for the 867 start. A province by province breakdown might help prompt some more Irish discussion as to how it should be best represented. I do like many of the ideas you mentioned in an earlier post, and I think they're worth expanding upon.

Well, the names are quite easy.

The North

Clearly at this stage the dominant Dynasty was Cenel nEoghain who would have held the game's equivalent of Tír Eoghain. The Kingship of Aileach, or in Tuaisceart (which is the Duchy of Ulster in game) had been dominated by them for nearly two centuries at this stage. The king of Cenel Eóghain and Aileach, at this stage, was Aed Findliath (who notably drove out a longphort of Vikings in Loch Feabhail, which probably should be present in 867). He was also High-King, though it is said no one really recognised this outside the North. So I'd give him the Duchy of Ulster, the Kingship of Ireland, and I'd have Cenel Conaill (Tyrconnell) and Airgialla (Oriel) under his control, with Ulster separate (for now!).

As far as holders then it would be:

King of Ireland - Duchy of Ulster- Earl of Tyrone - Aed Findliath mac Néill Caille (dynasty Cenel Eoghan or Uí Néill)
Earl of Ulster - Cathalán mac Indrechtaig (Dál Fiatach).
Earl of Oriel - Congalach mac Finnachta

Meath.

I would associate Kildare with Clann Cholmáin's Meath and Dublin with Síl nAedo Sláine's Breagha. Clann Cholmáin had dominated the kingship of Meath (i.e. the Duchy of Meath) for a century. In this scenario I would give the Earldom of Kildare to Clann Cholmáin (Donnchadh mac Eochocáin, with a tempestuous Flann Sinna waiting in the wings) and the duchy of meath. Meanwhile, Flann mac Conaing would take the Earldom of Dublin (though there would be a few holdings under Amhlaíb, Ímar or Oistín, perhaps the other viking settlements could be distributed among these three too), but would be independent.

So

Duchy of Meath - Earldom of Meath - Donnchadh mac Eochocáin (Clann Cholmáin)
Earldom of Dublin - Flann mac Conaing (Síl nAedó Sláine).

Leinster

Rather simply, both duchy and earldom should be given to the Uí Dúnlainge Kings, under Dúnlaing mac Muireadaig. Perhaps there should be Uí Cheinnselaig dynasties floating around ready to take over at a moments notice. Maybe they could be represented by a barony, Coirpre mac Diarmada seems to be their dynast at that stage. Ossory should be held by Cerball mac Dúnlaing, no relation to the leinster kings, and just recently alienated to the province of Leinster, so undoubtedly independent.

Duchy of Leinster - Earldom of Leinster - Dúnlaing mac Muireadaig
Earldom of Ossory - Cerball mac Dúnlaing.

Munster.

Things are a bit more complex here. Cenn Fáelad ua Mugthigirn was king during this period but he was a compromise candidate possibly from the Eóghanacht Áine or the Eóghanacht Airthir Cliach and he was a bishop (theocracy????). Perhaps he could be given a monastery in Emly and the Kingship of Ulster on top of that. Succession will be awkward. Ormond I think, is best represented by the Eóghanacht Chaisil, their leading dynast at this stage was Dúnchad son of Dub Dá Baireann. What Desmond represents is another difficulty. Eoghanacht Loch Léin or Eoghanacht Ráithlind are possibilities. A contemporary for the Loch Léin would probably be Murchadh mac Catháin. A contemporary for Eoghanacht Loch Léin would be hard to find. At least there are dynasty names. The only first thing we could have for Thomond at this stage is a dynasty name as well, Clann nÓengusa. I would make these counties all subject to the Duke of Munster.

Connacht

Seems to be two kings of Connacht in opposition to eachother Mugrón mac Mael Cothaid and Conchobhar mac Taidhg Mhóir. Perhaps things could begin with a civil war. Maybe each could have their own baronies. They should fight over both the earldom and duchy of Connacht. Perhaps Tigernán mac Sellachán or his father Sellachán should be earls of Bréifne. Both should be of the Uí Briúin. Perhaps some former Uí Fiachrach claimants should also be represented in game. Whether Bréifne is subject to the King of Connacht is an open question.

 

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Thanks for posting Riadach, I'll link it in the first post. I'm also going to add links to the Viking Dublin and Celtic Druidism threads as they're certainly subjects that add to the discussion.