Schismatic bishops

[Auvar]

I'm a little bit confused as to how new bishops are assigned to bishoprics and archbishoprics when the old one dies.

My current game is as the count of Corfu, attempting to re-conquer byzantine Italy and eventually remake the Western Roman Empire (it's going rather well - I'm the king of Venice and Sicily, took Roma from a crazed, heretic Pope, and now the province is both Orthodox and Greek). At one point I force-vassalized the independent archbishopric of Ferrara; they were later destroyed by the Zirids, and I took the province back and re-established the archbishopric with an (orthodox) relative of mine.

The odd thing is that, when he died, he was replaced by a catholic (and a de Hauteville no less, my hated rivals). I decided to save and try something out, cheat-killing a long line of archbishops, but they all came up catholic. The province itself was catholic, my ruler is Orthodox, and my church law is church supremacy. I would think that the patriarch having 100% say in my bishop selection would make them orthodox, but apparently not. Do I need to convert the province before I get bishops of my own faith? Will changing to another religious law help?

 

[WanderingKnight]

I'm a little bit confused as to how new bishops are assigned to bishoprics and archbishoprics when the old one dies.

My current game is as the count of Corfu, attempting to re-conquer byzantine Italy and eventually remake the Western Roman Empire (it's going rather well - I'm the king of Venice and Sicily, took Roma from a crazed, heretic Pope, and now the province is both Orthodox and Greek). At one point I force-vassalized the independent archbishopric of Ferrara; they were later destroyed by the Zirids, and I took the province back and re-established the archbishopric with an (orthodox) relative of mine.

The odd thing is that, when he died, he was replaced by a catholic (and a de Hauteville no less, my hated rivals). I decided to save and try something out, cheat-killing a long line of archbishops, but they all came up catholic. The province itself was catholic, my ruler is Orthodox, and my church law is church supremacy. I would think that the patriarch having 100% say in my bishop selection would make them orthodox, but apparently not. Do I need to convert the province before I get bishops of my own faith? Will changing to another religious law help?

This is strange, indeed.
If your ruler is orthodox and you established the bishopric when current bishop die he should be replaced by another orthodox one. The fact that Ferrara have catholic population doesn't matter at all (opposite, as a bishopric it'll become sooner your own religion). I do not know what's wrong here, but something is, hmm?

 

[Auvar]

My ruler is indeed Orthodox, and my previous ruler (who re-established the archibishopric with his nephew as archibishop) was also Orthodox. It doesn't matter if I cheat-kill the archbishop or wait for a natural death, either way my replacement is inevitably a catholic.

Eventually, the new archbishops will convert, but some die before that happens.

Would it matter if, say, I force-vassalized a catholic bishopric instead of re-creating it? Is there some catholic "tag" on the archbishopric that keeps it catholic, or is the religion of new bishops supposed to be dependent on the ruler's faith regardless of who founded the bishopric?

By the way, I'm using DVIP with the variant add-on; I have no other mods (except some minor graphical ones).

 

[zachhcaz22]

It shouldn't matter. In my Byzantine game I've reestablished the Eastern Patriarchates, reconverted the Roman Patriarchy, and even added an Archbishop (Patriarch in my roleplay) of Carthage. I've also force-vassalized an Archbishop of Toulouse and they all stay Orthodox, even Toulouse who started out Catholic. This is DVIP with no other changes, so it shouldn't be doing this. Sorry I can't be of actual help, but I know nothing of the game's mechanics when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[unmerged(82381)]

Does this happen with just this bishopric, or other Orthodox ones too? If its just the one bishopric I'm clueless. If it happens all over the Orthodox world, my guess would be that there aren't enough Orthodox people with a religious education to fill the post. Why it doesn't just generate a "country cousin bishop" I don't know.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

My ruler is indeed Orthodox, and my previous ruler (who re-established the archibishopric with his nephew as archibishop) was also Orthodox. It doesn't matter if I cheat-kill the archbishop or wait for a natural death, either way my replacement is inevitably a catholic.

Eventually, the new archbishops will convert, but some die before that happens.

Would it matter if, say, I force-vassalized a catholic bishopric instead of re-creating it? Is there some catholic "tag" on the archbishopric that keeps it catholic, or is the religion of new bishops supposed to be dependent on the ruler's faith regardless of who founded the bishopric?

No, there isn't. There is an automated way how the game creates assigns bishops when the old one dies... for catholics, I think the game takes courtiers of the pope and puts them in charge of bishoprics. Which is why you see lots if German bishops popping up around the world if the popes are Germans, and Italian ones if the pope is Italian.

For orthodox bishoprics, I think the game takes courtiers from somewhere... no idea where, though... and puts them in charge. Sometimes the guys seem to be randomly created upon death of the old bishop, sometimes they may already be around as his courtiers. If the latter one, then maybe your bishop somehow got a catholic guest? It may be that the de Hauteville guy was displaced somewhere else, and that he fled to the court of your new bishop. The mechanism for new orthodox bishops may actually have picked him as the new courtiers, and from then on the game treats his bishopric as a regular "papal" bishopric where only the pope decides who becomes bishop.

If anyone can explain how the orthodox bishops are assigned, this could help solve the riddle.

 

[WanderingKnight]

Does this happen with just this bishopric, or other Orthodox ones too? If its just the one bishopric I'm clueless. If it happens all over the Orthodox world, my guess would be that there aren't enough Orthodox people with a religious education to fill the post. Why it doesn't just generate a "country cousin bishop" I don't know.

For bolded part, I'm not 100% sure now, (I'll check latter) I do not think that is the case, since I've seen archbishops and bishops (orthodox) that do not have eclastical education, but court or army education traits. I guess if there is not enough orthodox priests, the game simply asigne country cousin or courtier of that bishopric with any education.

However I'll check this, becouse I did not play any CK game for a long period now, so I'm not sure.

Also I do not know if there is any difference if you play DVIP in this case?

..maybe your bishop somehow got a catholic guest? It may be that the de Hauteville guy was displaced somewhere else, and that he fled to the court of your new bishop. The mechanism for new orthodox bishops may actually have picked him as the new courtiers, and from then on the game treats his bishopric as a regular "papal" bishopric where only the pope decides who becomes bishop.

Maybe this sound as logical solution of what happened.

 

[WanderingKnight]

I was right about upper statment. I did turned on an old CK game just to check. And here is one orthodox archbishop who is Misguided Warrior:

 

[Nick B II]

You're a King so you can't have a liege.

My best guess is that there were only Catholic courtiers in Ferrara's court when the first Bishop died. One became Bishop, so all subsequent Bishops are Catholic.

Nick

 

[saskganesh]

eventually one of these catholic bishops will convert to orthodox by event, and then his court will eventually become orthodox and all his successors then will be orthodox.

unless of course, as leviathan points out, he gets a prominent Catholic guest, who doesn't convert before he becomes the bishop. then you'll get this anomaly.

 

[jordarkelf]

The same method by which the knight orders fall to islam, by the way.