Please don´t turn to insulting and flaming other members on this board, or I will have to dish out some warnings here.
It´s christmas for christ´s sake...
It´s christmas for christ´s sake...
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
While a 'scenario editor' would be nice, it looks like we will have huge enough capabilities to mod as it is.
There is already a very playable 1940 mod for the DEMO...
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3681150#post3681150
The main hassles of the approach that Paradoz make open to us are:
1) Changing loads of text files introduces high-probability formatting errors, which are irritating.
2) You have to construct your own tables to say "type = infantry model = 2" means '39 Infantry Division rather than just clicking on "New Unit -> '39 Infantry Division"
3) Text files 'look' like programming rather than fun, which puts off people who want instant gratification seeing their new armies on screen the minute they put them there.
The advantages are:
1) Paradox spend no time or hassle on creating something that isn't the game.
2) If you know what you're doing, the text files give you very precise and clear control over the result, which isn't necessarily the case with a 'proper' editor.
And I guess Paradox's philosophy is that if they didn't write a scenario editor the inevitable would happen and someone else would ;-)
There is already a very playable 1940 mod for the DEMO...
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3681150#post3681150
The main hassles of the approach that Paradoz make open to us are:
1) Changing loads of text files introduces high-probability formatting errors, which are irritating.
2) You have to construct your own tables to say "type = infantry model = 2" means '39 Infantry Division rather than just clicking on "New Unit -> '39 Infantry Division"
3) Text files 'look' like programming rather than fun, which puts off people who want instant gratification seeing their new armies on screen the minute they put them there.
The advantages are:
1) Paradox spend no time or hassle on creating something that isn't the game.
2) If you know what you're doing, the text files give you very precise and clear control over the result, which isn't necessarily the case with a 'proper' editor.
And I guess Paradox's philosophy is that if they didn't write a scenario editor the inevitable would happen and someone else would ;-)
Apology
My sincere apologies to Coreymas. My temper got the best of me.o
Merry Christmas to him and to all here.
W
My sincere apologies to Coreymas. My temper got the best of me.
o Merry Christmas to him and to all here.
W
Warlimont,
I am sorry as well for using some of the words that I did. I admit that I got upset with your post and reacted in haste.
I actually would love to have an editor for HOI2. Unfortunately Paradox is a company and has to make money and since the main focus of HOI2 is a game and not like TOAW which is a combat simulator I do not see Paradox coming out too soon with an editor.
If you ask the following question of both games you should get 2 different answers:
If HOI2 does not come with an editor -- will I buy it anyway?
Yes because the game is complete and I can use all of the features right out of the box
If TOAW does not come with an editor -- will I buy it anyway?
No -- because I bought the game so that specifically I can make my own scenarios, play be pbem etc.
I would however like to see (and this may be a stretch) from paradox some documentation on the structure of the files so that we as a community can create our own battlescenarios etc.
To answer some of your questions TheLand
1) Changing loads of text files introduces high-probability formatting errors, which are irritating.
Yes this is true -- however if Paradox could consider in the future to use XML files instead, if there were any error then the XML file would not work properly right from the beginning and you could fix the error right away.
2) You have to construct your own tables to say "type = infantry model = 2" means '39 Infantry Division rather than just clicking on "New Unit -> '39 Infantry Division"
If these text files were XML ones then an editor could be created to do just what you said above ... The editor would be easy to make and could be used for multiple files ...
3) Text files 'look' like programming rather than fun, which puts off people who want instant gratification seeing their new armies on screen the minute they put them there.
XML files are more english like and can be much more descriptive than C structures (which is what you are currently seeing in the text files). XML is also becoming the standard in the industry for simple data storage etc.
The advantages are:
1) Paradox spend no time or hassle on creating something that isn't the game.
This is true and along with the economic/development time cost (with no return for Paradox) is the reason why Paradox will probably not create an editor.
2) If you know what you're doing, the text files give you very precise and clear control over the result, which isn't necessarily the case with a 'proper' editor.
Partially true, the reason why i disagree with you is that when the editor goes to "write" the file back it should use the exact syntax neccessary to get the results the user wants. This of course is tempered with the fact that the editor needs to be programmed correctly ... otherwise the editor could make more of a mess than actually helping the user create/modify the file. Again this is easier to do with and XML output file as it is easy to check and see if the XML file is in proper format inside of the code before writing it to disk
Sorry if I got long winded here,
Corey
BTW - Just so that everyone knows, I am a programmer and consultant by trade and I draw my conclusions from that experience.
I am sorry as well for using some of the words that I did. I admit that I got upset with your post and reacted in haste.
I actually would love to have an editor for HOI2. Unfortunately Paradox is a company and has to make money and since the main focus of HOI2 is a game and not like TOAW which is a combat simulator I do not see Paradox coming out too soon with an editor.
If you ask the following question of both games you should get 2 different answers:
If HOI2 does not come with an editor -- will I buy it anyway?
Yes because the game is complete and I can use all of the features right out of the box
If TOAW does not come with an editor -- will I buy it anyway?
No -- because I bought the game so that specifically I can make my own scenarios, play be pbem etc.
I would however like to see (and this may be a stretch) from paradox some documentation on the structure of the files so that we as a community can create our own battlescenarios etc.
To answer some of your questions TheLand
1) Changing loads of text files introduces high-probability formatting errors, which are irritating.
Yes this is true -- however if Paradox could consider in the future to use XML files instead, if there were any error then the XML file would not work properly right from the beginning and you could fix the error right away.
2) You have to construct your own tables to say "type = infantry model = 2" means '39 Infantry Division rather than just clicking on "New Unit -> '39 Infantry Division"
If these text files were XML ones then an editor could be created to do just what you said above ... The editor would be easy to make and could be used for multiple files ...
3) Text files 'look' like programming rather than fun, which puts off people who want instant gratification seeing their new armies on screen the minute they put them there.
XML files are more english like and can be much more descriptive than C structures (which is what you are currently seeing in the text files). XML is also becoming the standard in the industry for simple data storage etc.
The advantages are:
1) Paradox spend no time or hassle on creating something that isn't the game.
This is true and along with the economic/development time cost (with no return for Paradox) is the reason why Paradox will probably not create an editor.
2) If you know what you're doing, the text files give you very precise and clear control over the result, which isn't necessarily the case with a 'proper' editor.
Partially true, the reason why i disagree with you is that when the editor goes to "write" the file back it should use the exact syntax neccessary to get the results the user wants. This of course is tempered with the fact that the editor needs to be programmed correctly ... otherwise the editor could make more of a mess than actually helping the user create/modify the file. Again this is easier to do with and XML output file as it is easy to check and see if the XML file is in proper format inside of the code before writing it to disk
Sorry if I got long winded here,
Corey
BTW - Just so that everyone knows, I am a programmer and consultant by trade and I draw my conclusions from that experience.
Another beauty with the way all text files are all there out in the open to be modded is making it relatively easy for anybody with programming skills to make an editor themselves. There is no source code meddling in between and the parts that should not be edited are clearly stated in the files. If there are dedicated people it should take few weeks to have something and few months to have a "full" editor.
