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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Norrefeldt

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bobtdwarf said:
I think that you may be going down the wrong path with the stricture of overall strategic command... since you will run into the wall of who was in strategic command of Napoleons armies other then Napoleon? You run the risk of getting rid of some truly exceptional historical figures. For example using semi-recent history: Under the definition of overall strategic command of the army, the US in WW2 had TWO leaders: Ike and MacArthur. All others were subordinate commanders making only tactical decisions. Same goes for much of the Napoleonic era when Napoleon was in overall strategic charge of the army and the well known marshals of France were mere subordinate tactical commanders of his divisions.

The better way IMHO would be to only include leaders who commanded maneuver units, and when I say maneuver units I mean the unit size that was the major building block for independent operations during that particular era IE brigades, battalions, regiments, and divisions or wings.

The reasons for this are threefold: The person designing the strategy in most cases is not the guy actually in the field slugging it out. And most importantly the game uses the stats for the leaders in tactical, not strategic combat. And lastly it will tend to limit the options of the player because he should be able to in wartime split his armies during the time frame and be assured that he has commanders of each sub-unit of some worth.
I used the word strategic wrong, which would lead to the consequences you mention. I ment to say we use the person that is in overall command of a battle as the one who gets to become a leader.

bobtdwarf said:
In other words if I am playing Sweden during the TYW and I make the strategic decision to split the army of Germany into two maneuver units of equal size to exploit and harass I would be left with Baner in one and some nameless 2/2/2 leader in the other when I should have Baner and Torstenson in command of their separate units raining hate and discontent down upon the heads of my enemies.

The game itself gives the best guidance to that in the vanilla leader files which are chock full of tactical leaders of maneuver elements.
And then you want to split of an army from Torstenssons, and then agains and again. At some point you will have to live with a 2-2-2 leader, even though he will be affected by defensive-offensive DP.

bobtdwarf said:
I know that this would tend to inflate the number of leaders and would tend to favor some nations that are well documented and there is not much that can really be done about that other then accept it. I know that it may offend someone with a fetish to play Berg..but they really never fielded much of an army and as I recall when Napoleons brother took possession of the Grand Duchy he found he had an army that due to the finances of the area was primarily armed with large cudgels... So such will not have likely had much in the way of great military leaders serving under the banner of the duke rather they would go to where the pay was better and the odds of victory higher.
It will not only favour some major nations, but it will also favour late game periods huegely, since there are much better sources of TYW than of all the important wars in Italy in the 15th c. AGCEEP explicitly strive to move away from the Eurocentrism and focus on well-known wars for a greater diversity of the game.

bobtdwarf said:
Most sources are biased to a degree but there is a degree of uniformity that can be gathered from looking at multiple sources. And sometimes unless you know the context of the battle and the conditions under which it was fought the comparison method can lead you to false results. And you still have to take into account how the game deals with the various and sundry aspects of what all goes into warfare via the land tech ladder.
I agree. But for some cases there are no multiple sources, unless you live next to a world-class historical library.

bobtdwarf said:
In my previous examples Rupert who has a shock of 4 really needs to be closer to a 6 with a movement of a minimum of 4. Multiple sources refer to him as a legend, he routed Cromwell in face to face combat with a smaller force hastily organized and presumably under the land tech ladder with a lower tech rating(as expressed by professionalism and doctrine), and he could move troops rapidly across the country and keep them cohesive. And from the amount of propaganda put out by the roundheads about him and the type it was, they were deathly afraid of him. The stats he has are probably more typical for his younger brother Maurice. It would also probably be safe to give him a 1 in siege since for most of his training as a youth he was attending them and he took by assault the fortified city of Bristol known as the best built town in the UK...

I would be happy to lend a hand where I can in this as I do have some small amount of knowledge and some compatible skills if you need it just send me a PM.
Please bring this up in the appropiate thread. Changing leader stats when there are good reasons is often not a big issue. Keep in mind that there are only a handful of leaders with any value of 6.
 

Norrefeldt

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Toio said:
i also think he should have a seige of 2. IRC he also captured prague as well as many other towns
seige points to me mean, any cities or towns captured regarless, of how the city/town was captured.
be it by seige weapons or starving out the populace or even if they opened the gates open, its all should be used to represent a seige bonus.
It was Banér that took Prague. Torstensson took many smaller fortresses and cities though.
 

Norrefeldt

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Since Sigismund is suggested as removed from the Polish leader file, he should also be removed as alternative leader for Sweden. Event 3299 #(1598) King Sigismund and Duke Charles is affected too by this.

Yodamaster helped me find the old Bugs in Leaders-Monarch and here are the last few things that never made it, since they were not bugs but issues discovered in the process.

Shortened time for KKB:
Code:
historicalleader = {
	category = monarch
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131801 }
	name = "Karl Knutsson" #Karl Knutsson Bonde
	startdate = {
		year = 1436
	}
	deathdate = {
[COLOR=Yellow]		day = 24
		month = february
		year = 1457[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 3
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	remark = "Karl VIII"
}

Shortened time and lowered rank of Karl IX, since all but a few months will be before his reign. Name adapted to English.
Code:
historicalleader = {
	category = [COLOR=Yellow]general[/COLOR]
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131816 }
	name = "[COLOR=Yellow]Karl[/COLOR]"
	startdate = {
		year = 1570
	}
	deathdate = {
[COLOR=Yellow]		day = 20
		month = december
		year = 1605[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = [COLOR=Yellow]1[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR=Yellow]3[/COLOR]
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	[COLOR=Yellow]remark = "Karl IX before reign"[/COLOR]
}
 
Last edited:

Toio

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Norrefeldt said:
Since Sigismund is suggested as removed from the Polish leader file, he should also be removed as alternative leader for Sweden. Event 3299 #(1598) King Sigismund and Duke Charles is affected too by this.

Yodamaster helped me find the old Bugs in Leaders-Monarch and here are the last few things that never made it, since they were not bugs but issues discovered in the process.

Shortened time for KKB:
Code:
historicalleader = {
	category = monarch
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131801 }
	name = "Karl Knutsson" #Karl Knutsson Bonde
	startdate = {
		year = 1436
	}
	deathdate = {
[COLOR=Yellow]		day = 24
		month = february
		year = 1457[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 0
	movement = 3
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	remark = "Karl VIII"
}

Shortened time and lowered rank of Karl IX, since all but a few months will be before his reign. Name adapted to English.
Code:
historicalleader = {
	category = [COLOR=Yellow]general[/COLOR]
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131816 }
	name = "[COLOR=Yellow]Duke[/COLOR] Karl"
	startdate = {
		year = 1570
	}
	deathdate = {
[COLOR=Yellow]		day = 20
		month = december
		year = 1605[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 0
	movement = 2
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
}


whats the point in ID 0131816 , he is just a standard "colonel" leader , at least give him an extra point in something,
 

rybka

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There is a spelling error in swedish leader file
"Poniatowksi" should be "Poniatowski"
 

unmerged(40707)

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As rybka stated here, it seems there is a problem with swedish leaders. Someone knowledgeable to confirm?
 

Cleomenes

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In the summer of 1523 Berend von Melen were of Gustav Wasa suspected for treason so his deathdate should be in June 1523 or so.
 

unmerged(80927)

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In the summer of 1523 Berend von Melen were of Gustav Wasa suspected for treason so his deathdate should be in June 1523 or so.

I thought it was in spring 1525.

Anyhow though...

EDIT: Yeah, he indeed was suspected of treachery in 1523, after having taken Kalmar castle. However, he still followed Gustav's orders, though he didn't carry them out with efficiency (and he plotted against Gustav with the pirate/privateer Søren Norby). It was in 1525 that he clearly abandoned Gustav. I've made some other changes as well.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131807 }
	category = general
	name = "Berend von Melen"
	startdate = {
		year = 1521
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1550[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1525[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]0[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Berendt von Mehlen"
}

EDIT: I only know of this fellow that he commanded a campaign in Skåne against "the border peoples", which was a failure (though it wasn't completely his fault: his troops, some of which had been recruited in Västergotland, refused to fight the Skåneans.) He also took the Kalmar castle with words. Campaigned in Gotland against Norby. After that, he plotted against Gustav for the rest of his life.

I think these could be useful...

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131836 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Carl G.[/COLOR] Armfeldt" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Gustav[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
	        [COLOR="Red"]year = 1680[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]
                year = 1700[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Red"]year = 1720[/COLOR]
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 23
                month = october
		 year = 1736[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	fire = 3
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

He didn't show any kind extraordinary maneuvering, so I've put his rating to 3. He was a lieutenant general, not a brigadier. His first independent command was the defense of Helsingfors on the 11th of May in 1713. He had been made a generaladjutant in 1700 already he starts then. He served until his death in 1736. I don't how somebody managed to put a 14-year old as a general :wacko:.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131805 }
	category = admiral
	name = "Jakob Bagge"
	startdate = {
	         year = [COLOR="Red"]1520[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1555[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		[COLOR="Red"]year = 1575[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]
                year = 1570[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Also a good general."
}

His first command was in 1555. Defeated the Danes in the Battle of Bornholm in 1563 but captured by the Danish in a battle near Öland in 1564. He remained a prisoner until the end of the Nordic Seven Years War in 1570. I don't think he served anymore in the last seven years of his life. AFAIK his only land command was the siege of Pähkinälinna (Shlisselburg) in September 1555, which was a failure, so I don't understand how was he a good general.
Perhaps I'm missing out something.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131810 }
	category = admiral
	name = "Klas Horn"
	startdate = {
                [COLOR="Red"]year = 1551[/COLOR]
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 7
                month = august
		year = 1564[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]month = september[/COLOR]
		year = 1566
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 4
	fire = 5
	shock = 5
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Also a _very_ competent general."
}

Now this one's interesting. He was first put into command of the fleet in August 1564, after the capture of Bagge. He defeated 3 Danish-Lübecker navies and became the undisputed master of the Baltic Sea. Unfortunately he died only some 10 days after his final victory.

I could make him a general, as he was commanding forces on the ground before August 1564, however, he apparently switched back to land in 1565 while he was an admiral:confused:. I guess this was quite normal since there was also a Russian admiral who also switched back and forth between land and sea in the Great Northern War...

I would just leave him as an admiral.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131809 }
	category = general
	name = "Klas E. Fleming"
	startdate = {
		[COLOR="Red"]year = 1555[/COLOR]
               [COLOR="Yellow"] year = 1591[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
               [COLOR="Yellow"] day = 12
                month = april[/COLOR]
		year = 1597
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = [COLOR="Red"]1[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]0[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
}

Became constable in 1591. From what I've read he had been in command of some ski-warriors in 1556, however he never fought in any battles commanding them or any other forces before 1591. He didn't command any sieges. He defeated rebels in Tavastland in 1593 and a widespread revolt, called the "Club War", in 1596-1597.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131820 }
	category = general
	name = "J. de la Gardie"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1604[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1608[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1647[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1628[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 2
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "[COLOR="Red"]Lazy Jaako[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]Laiska-Jaakko[/COLOR]"
}

First command in 1608. Last in 1628. Poor spelling :eek:.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131816 }
	category = general
	name = "Karl"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1570[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1569[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 20
		month = december
		year = 1605
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 3
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Karl IX before reign" #Hertig Karl
}

Apparently he didn't command any forces before his war against Sigismund 1598-1599. EDIT: Oops! Yes, he did lead some troops 1569.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131817 }
	category = general
	name = "Karl Horn"
	startdate = {
		year = 157[COLOR="Red"]5[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]0[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 15
                month = may[/COLOR]
		year = 160[COLOR="Red"]5[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
	remark = "Son of Henrik Horn. Both were tireless in Estland."
}

He defended Tallinn against the Russians in 1570-1571 and in 1577. He conquered Lääne in 1581. Initially a supporter of Sigismund but switched sides in 1600. Died while on campaign against the Poles.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131818 }
	category = [COLOR="Red"]admiral[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]general[/COLOR]
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Carl[/COLOR] Gyllenhielm"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1595[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1600[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1645[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1611[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]5[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	fire = 2
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Bastard Brother of Gustav II Adolf"
}

While he was an admiral in theory he never commanded naval forces. He apparently participated in the war against Poland 1600-1611. He was badly beaten by The Thunderbolt in the Battle of Kokenhausen in 1601. I've given him a shock value of 3 because he tried to make his cavalry charge with cold steel, instead of caracoling. His attempt at reform was not really succesful, as his failure at Kokenhausen shows, so he doesn't get a 4. While he was made formally made a Field Marshal in 1616 he never commanded any troops after the First War against Poland. During that time his rank was more like a lieutenant general.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131819 }
	category = general
	name = "Herman Wrangel"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1600[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1626[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1637
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

First command in 1626. Defeated Stanislaw Potocki at Gorzno. He held up Kazanowski's counter-attack in the Battle of Tczew.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131832 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]R.[/COLOR] von Ascheberg"
	startdate = {
		year = 165[COLOR="Red"]0[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]6[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1693[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1679[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark = "Rutger von Ascheberg, a very able commander."
}

First command in 1656. Last one in 1679.

EDIT:

Code:
[COLOR="Red"]historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131853 }
	category = general
	name = "Toll"
	startdate = {
		year = 1801
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1817
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}[/COLOR]

Toll, while a marshal, never actually commanded any troops. He only planned Gustav III's war against Russia, nothing else.

Now, I thought about replacing him with the cowardly fool Klingspor. But I don't think it's AGCEEP policy to have leaders with 1/2/2 ranking...

So, should he be kept or just deleted? Or replaced with Klingspor?

EDIT:

Made some small changes +

Code:
[COLOR="Red"]historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131851 }
	category = general
	name = "von Essen"
	startdate = {
		year = 1790
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1795
	}
	rank = 0
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}[/COLOR]

This fellow never commanded any troops in battle.

However, I propose replacing him with Torsten Stålhandske, a very good cavalry commander:

Code:
[COLOR="Yellow"]historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131851 }
	category = general
	name = "Torsten Stålhandske"
	startdate = {
		year = 1632
	}
	deathdate = {
                day = 20
                month = april
		year = 1644
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 4
	fire = 2
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}[/COLOR]
 
Last edited:

De-VILLARS

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He remained a prisoner until the end of the Nordic Seven Years War in 1570.
so his deathdate could be 1570 no ?
 

De-VILLARS

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You mean the game can take care of it with the random "death" of a leader in battle? If so, well, why not. :)
not exactly. I mean that this leader could have been general until 1570 and so it's perhaps better to keep him until 1570.

Leaders' historical dates are important but I think we need flexibility in the simulation. The representation of history is more or less faithfull in EUII (for example the Nordic Seven Years War could not exist in the game), so we have to balance the forces and to make compromises.
 

unmerged(80927)

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Jul 23, 2007
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not exactly. I mean that this leader could have been general until 1570 and so it's perhaps better to keep him until 1570.

Leaders' historical dates are important but I think we need flexibility in the simulation. The representation of history is more or less faithfull in EUII (for example the Nordic Seven Years War could not exist in the game), so we have to balance the forces and to make compromises.

Right, fine for me then.
 

unmerged(80927)

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Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131804 }
	category = general
	name = "Hemming Gadh"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1501[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1506[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 15
		month = december[/COLOR]
		year = 1520
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	movement = 2
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

First command was the Siege of Kalmar castle in 1506. Took over Finland in 1520 bloodlessly on the orders of King Kristian. However Kristian didn't trust him, since he had been a fierce opponent of King Hans, and had him executed outside Raasepori castle.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131813 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Charles[/COLOR] de Mornay"
	startdate = {
		year = 1563
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1570
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131821 }
	category = general
	name = "Evert Horn"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1605[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1609[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 29
                month = july[/COLOR]
		year = 1615
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 2
	dormant = no
	remark = "Son of Karl Horn and daring friend of J.De La Gardie. One of few Swedish siege experts."
}

Horn was killed during the Siege of Pskov.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131850 }
	category = general
	name = "Adlercreutz" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Carl Johan[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1789[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1796[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 20
                month = august[/COLOR]
		year = 1815
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

He was made a colonel in 1796. A major general after the Battle of Revolax. A full general in 1811.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131852 }
	category = general
	name = "Sandels" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Johan August Sandels[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1801[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1799[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1827
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]6[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]5[/COLOR]
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]4[/COLOR]
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Made a colonel in 1799. Major general in December 1808. Lieutenant general in 1813. He, despite being badly outnumbered, fought a brilliant and somewhat guerrilla-like campaign against the Russians in eastern Finland during the Finnish War of 1808-1809. Also badly defeated the Russians in the battles of Koljonvirta and Pulkkila. Despite this, I don't think he deserves a rating of 6, since IMHO it isn't as brilliant as Marlborough's march to the Danube or Napoléon's complete outmaneuvering of Mack's army. Sandels held up Barclay de Tolly at the Strait of Toivala, despite being outnumbered four-to-one. At Koljonvirta his well-planned deployment of his troops and artillery fire disorganized and surprised the Russian vanguard, after which his infantry threw the Russians into the river.

Later on he took the town of Umeå back from the Russians and also successfully served as governor of Norway.

Along with Georg Carl von Döbeln, he was easily the best commander on the Swedish side during the Finnish War. While he wasn't as emotional a leader like von Döbeln, he was certainly a dutiful and intelligent commander who also won the respect of his soldiers with his personal bravery.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131849 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Carl[/COLOR] von Döbeln" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Georg Carl von Döbeln[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1781[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1805[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                day = 15
                month = february
		year = 1820
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Colonel in 1805. Major general in September 1808. Lieutenant general in 1813.

Code:
[COLOR="Red"]historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131838 }
	category = general
	name = "Arvid Horn"
	startdate = {
		year = 1700
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1740[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1705[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 3
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	shock = 2
	siege = [COLOR="Red"]1[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]0[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
}[/COLOR]

Major general in 1700. Lieutenant general in 1704. I'm not aware of any sieges of particular instances of musket or artillery fire, where it was instrumental/innovative/decisive or otherwise particularly apt. He became a politician in 1705, rather than a soldier. Nor did he command any sieges.

EDIT: While he actually was a general with a rank, never had any independent commands or was even a secondary to general-in-charge. Ok so he took over Warsaw. It didn't involve any military action of which I'm aware of.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131825 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Johan[/COLOR] Banér"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1630[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1634[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = [COLOR="Red"]10[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]9[/COLOR]
		month = may
		year = 1641
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 5
	fire = 4
	shock = 5
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

He commanded the Swedish forces in the Holy Roman Empire from 1634, not 1630. Doesn't EU2 also have deaths actually occur a day after the real one? Therefore 10 -> 9.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131822 }
	category = admiral
	name = "Klas Fleming"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1610[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1619[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 26
		month = july
		year = 1644
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	shock = [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Rear admiral in 1619 (or 1620?). He wasn't a very good commander, though not bad either. He was more of an excellent administrator. I think there could be an event to represent this attempt at reform.

I've also made some changes to the previous post.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(80927)

Corporal
Jul 23, 2007
43
0
Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131812 }
	category = general
	name = "Bo Grip" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Bo Birgersson Grip[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1561[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1563[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]month = november[/COLOR]
		year = 1569
	}
	rank = 4
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Served under Erik XIV in the Nordic Seven Years War (1563-1570). Killed while defending Varberg against Daniel Rantzau, Frants Brockenhuus and even Fredrick II.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131841 }
	category = general
	name = "Magnus Stenbock"
	startdate = {
		year = 1700
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 22
                month = february[/COLOR]
		year = 1717
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 3
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]4[/COLOR]
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

He was made a prisoner of the Danes on the 6th of May in 1712. However he died on the 23rd of February in 1717.

His artillery fire at Gadebusch was decisive for victory. A Field Mashal in 1712.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131837 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]C.G[/COLOR] Rehnskiöld" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Carl Gustav[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = 1699
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 28
                month = january[/COLOR]
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1720[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1722[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]1[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	shock = [COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]4[/COLOR]
	siege = [COLOR="Red"]1[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]0[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
}

I think this man so well-documented that anyone can look up the Battle of Fraustadt and pincer movement at Wikipedia. Poltava reduces his score, of course. He was made a Russian prisoner after Poltava, but, following De- Villars' suggestion, his deathdate is his real death date.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131835 }
	category = admiral
	name = "Gustav Stenbock"
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1655[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1666[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1685[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1676[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Admiral 1666-1676.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131833 }
	category = monarch
	name = "Karl X Gustav"
	startdate = {
		1648
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 12
                month = february[/COLOR]
		year = 1660
	}
	rank = 0
	movement = 5
	fire = 4
	shock = 4
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
	remark = "King"
}

First commanded forces in Germany, 1648, though the Peace of Westphalia prevented him from obtaining actual experience as a general. March across the Belts. Death date further specified.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131828 }
	category = general
	name = "K. Gustav Wrangel" #Karl Gustav Wrangel
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1632[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1638[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1665[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]
                day = 18
                month = june
                year = 1675[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 1
	movement = 4
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

Major general of infantry in 1638. Removed from command after the Battle of Fehrbellin. I don't know the exact date or month.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131829 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Arvid[/COLOR] Wittenberg"
	startdate = {
                [COLOR="Red"]year = 1634[/COLOR] 
		[COLOR="Yellow"]day = 9
		month = may
		year = 1641[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		[COLOR="Yellow"]day = 6
		month = september[/COLOR]
		year = 1657
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]5[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 4
	fire = 4
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Marshal. First command was between the death of Banér and the arrival of Torstenson.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131830 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]von[/COLOR] Königsmarck" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Hans Christoffer von Königsmarck[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1635[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1642[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1655
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]6[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 5
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]3[/COLOR]
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Flying column. A marshal. First command in 1642. He was made only a colonel 1635. Took Praha castle.

I think I'll submit compile&edit all these leaders in a single post... later on. Now I have a geography project to start!
 
Last edited:

De-VILLARS

Le diable blanc
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As i did it when i worked on leaders' files, i think we should choose the date when the leaders are named general and not colonel. AFAIK a colonel only lead a regiment which is too small to be simulated in EUII.

Great work for sweden ! :)

Edit : the name of Konigsmark is too long to fit in the window, 17 letters are the maximum
 
Last edited:

unmerged(80927)

Corporal
Jul 23, 2007
43
0
Königsmarck fixed, hopefully. I'm not very familiar with the usage of the title/honorific "von" by the Germans themselves.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131852 }
	category = general
	name = "Sandels" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Johan August Sandels[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1801[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1808[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1827
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = [COLOR="Red"]6[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]5[/COLOR]
	fire = [COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]4[/COLOR]
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

Ok, so I've adjusted Sandels a bit. He was made commander of the Fifth Brigade in 1808, general adjutant and a major general. He was made a major general in December, however, he had already won the great victory of Koljonvirta before that and waged his campaign as well. So he starts a bit earlier.

Same goes for these fellows:

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131850 }
	category = general
	name = "Adlercreutz" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Carl Johan[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1789[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1808[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 20
                month = august[/COLOR]
		year = 1815
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1[/COLOR]
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

He was made a colonel in 1796. A major general after the Battle of Revolax. A full general in 1811.

Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0131849 }
	category = general
	name = "[COLOR="Yellow"]Carl von[/COLOR] Döbeln" [COLOR="Yellow"]#Georg Carl von Döbeln[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		year = [COLOR="Red"]1781[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]1808[/COLOR]
	}
	deathdate = {
                [COLOR="Yellow"]day = 15
                month = february[/COLOR]
		year = 1820
	}
	rank = [COLOR="Red"]8[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]2[/COLOR]
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

EDIT: Thanks, eh, "Claude" ;)
 

unmerged(25633)

First Lieutenant
Feb 11, 2004
226
0
I always replace Poniatowski with Jan Sapieha (see Wiki)--same stats

Far as I know, Poniatowski was a politico while Sapieha was well-regarded by Karl XII himself.

Mostly for campaign "color"
 

Herr Doctor

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I always replace Poniatowski with Jan Sapieha (see Wiki)--same stats

Far as I know, Poniatowski was a politico while Sapieha was well-regarded by Karl XII himself.

Mostly for campaign "color"
Well, Sapieha was not a good military commander (Olkieniki was a real catastrophe for the Sapiehas), but he was an ally of Karl XII indeed ;)