Scandinavian leaders

[Norrefeldt]

Since the three Genoese leaders I posted some time ago was intruduced in the 20jan beta, I feel motivated to promote another EEP leader that could be added. Sweden was vassal of Denmark till 1523 something, and Danmark managed to beat the Swedes in several rebellions. Still the Swedish leaders are better during this time.
Otto Krumpen was a successful Danish general (died 1569), he lead the army that defeated the most serious of the Swedish rebellions, and defeated Swedish armies three times in 1520, at Uppsala, Örebro and the decisive one at Åsunden, where the nobleman leading the rebellion was killed. He defeated an army from Lübeck 1522 at Råå in Denmark and commanded a the Danish army that went to Norway in 1529. I think he could be a leader between 1519 and 1533.

Another, unrelated, thing. The Swedish leader Gyllenhielm is active between 1585 and 1645, sixty years! He was born 1574, and was *not* a childhood general. 1595 ought to be better, since that is when he returned to Sweden after military training in France.

 

[AndrewT]

Perhaps you should propose some stats for these generals so people have a basis to discuss them on.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Sure,
at this time, Sweden has a 222-1 leader "Hemming Gadh", though he never met Otto Krumpen in battle. He was more of a diplomat and an important noble than a commander, so Krumpen should be better. I'd suggest 333, like two Swedish and one Danish general a decade later. I have no information on successful sieges, so no siege value.
More info on the battles: in the one outside Uppsala, the whole Swedish (peasant) army was annihilated. After this war he mostly served as diplomat and was 'riksmarsk', I think it is the head of the army.

 

[Hive]

I agree, Krumpen should be in.

I think 4/4/4 does more justice to his abilities though.

 

[devil]

Krumpen should be added, 444 is fair. Though a there is a lot more who should be added.

A whole other issue is with the new beta patch (24 jan), sweden is even more powerful than before, the morale rules destroys denmark.

 

[AndrewT]

OK, changed startdate for Gyllenhielm to1595.

OK, I made Otto like this, as I don't know what rank he would count as I made it 10, the lowest:

  historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 1589 }
	category = general
	name = "Otto Krumpen"
	startdate = {
		year=1519
	}
	deathdate = {
		year=1533
	}
	rank = 10
	movement = 4
	fire = 4
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
}

 

[Norrefeldt]

He should probably be a 'General' since he was that from 1520 and later turned into what could be equalled to 'Field Marshal' (Rigsmarsk 1554). But at that time he didn't do much active service, so 'General' it should be.

 

[AndrewT]

General just means he's not a monarch, that still leaves ranks 1-10 he could be (0 is monarch).

 

[Nikolai II]

General just means he's not a monarch, that still leaves ranks 1-10 he could be (0 is monarch).

Wasn't it 0 = monarch or FM (Field Chief Judge), 1-3 general, 4-6 colonel, 7-10 lowranker, usually used only for conquistadors and explorers with little or no rank?

 

[AndrewT]

"General" is used in two senses here. In the category name you are Explorer, Conquistador, Monarch, General or Admiral. Of these, General refers to a land leader who is not a Monarch or Conquistador, and can have a rank of 1 to 10.

As you say, Ranks 1-3 do display in the game as Generals, in a quite separate sense. So if you're saying he should be a General in this sense, then we need to assign him a Rank of 1, 2 or 3.

Unfortunately I've just sent a batch of updates off to Johan, so he's currently going to appear as rank 10. I'll try to get that changed to, say, 2, but it may not get in the next beta release.

Fortunately this doesn't matter very much; there is only one other DAN leader alive while he is, so unless they are in the same army (pretty silly) then their ranks don't matter.

The general before him, Junker Schlentz, is a normal land general with rank 10, so that's not just for Conquistadors.

 

[Norrefeldt]

I ment in the game sense, i.e. rank 1-3, 2 sounds OK. Sorry I wasn't clear, I intended that the ' ' refered to game terms. But as you say it really doesn't matter in this case, unless they fight with allies.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Unfortunately I've just sent a batch of updates off to Johan, so he's currently going to appear as rank 10. I'll try to get that changed to, say, 2, but it may not get in the next beta release.

Fortunately this doesn't matter very much; there is only one other DAN leader alive while he is, so unless they are in the same army (pretty silly) then their ranks don't matter.

Unless he's in a siege with an ally with a high ranking leader.

 

[AndrewT]

Yebbut who'd ally with the puny little Danes ?

 

[Arilou]

Mmm, 4-4-4 certainly seems like a good thing for Krumpen... I was thinking of another general though for the danes, whose name I can't remember right now... I he fought KKB in Skåne and the borderlands quite successfully, anyone remember his name?

 

[devil]

Mmm, 4-4-4 certainly seems like a good thing for Krumpen... I was thinking of another general though for the danes, whose name I can't remember right now... I he fought KKB in Skåne and the borderlands quite successfully, anyone remember his name?

http://www.geocities.com/armdury/Hvornaar.html

Details about danish history, problem with denmark is many admirals where also great generals....

 

[Hive]

http://www.geocities.com/armdury/Hvornaar.html

Details about danish history, problem with denmark is many admirals where also great generals....

I think that 'problem' ain't just restricted to Denmark, though.

A Danish leader like Christian IV is a good example of that. He commanded both navies and armies (he didn't have much success with the latter though), but is just a land general in the game. I suggest adding him as an admiral untill he entered the TYW, and then make him a leader from then on.

 

[AndrewT]

There's no problem here, you can have the same guy appearing twice at the same time, one as an admiral and one as a land leader. It's not desirable of course as it looks silly, but it's technically doable. I'd rather they just appeared as their main function.

 

[Norrefeldt]

There's no problem here, you can have the same guy appearing twice at the same time, one as an admiral and one as a land leader. It's not desirable of course as it looks silly, but it's technically doable. I'd rather they just appeared as their main function.

Agree. If there is a *real* need to have one naval and one army leader, the second in command could be chosen. This is not only for Danish leaders, but also Swedish and many Italians, so it would be a rather big change.