Scandinavia, just a color?

[Thetitan]

After searching for this answer and not finding it, it is a little bit puzzling to me.

The ONLY 3 positive things happening when pressing the "Form Scandinavia" button is, A new color and name, +tax for x years, 5 prestige.

That is it. Now, let us look at the negative sides. +1 revolt risk for x years (fair enough). Every single nation event you would have gotten if you didn't click the button is now gone for the rest of the game. Say WHAT???

Let us look at some other event Nations. Great Britain. All English events are carried over to the GB tag holder, does not matter if they are scottish or english in the first place.

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. All Polish and Lithuanian events are carried over, does not matter what nation that forms it.

Russia. Any Russian minor state, even Tver if they form Russia, will get all of the Muscovite/Russian events.

What happens if any Scandinavian nation forms Scandinavia? You destroy all of the events you previously would have gotten, for a new color and name.

What reason does anyone, even the AI, have to forming Scandinavia? Apart from the three positive things listed above, and NONE of those are enough.

 

[Frederick III]

Don't all Scandinavian cultures become accepted?

 

[DanubianCossak]

You dont have to form it.

And actually AI is specifically prevented from forming it at all, so it never will do it.

Its very much ahistoric country that changes the balance of the entire region if formed. Its not something id wanna see in every game.

So thats my guess. Only human would ever do it. And only for roleplay reasons. No other reason to do it really, dunno?

 

[Mamluke]

also, I think AI is told NOT to do the decision, so yeah even the AI know better XD

 

[The Colonel]

In my experience forming Scandanavia made Danish non-accepted, which was really annoying.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Maybe this is why the AI is coded to never form Scandinavia?

Also, you get all Scandinavian cultures as accepted, which might help against revolts.

 

[trojan1234]

You get culture union. All scandinavian culture provinces would have no penalty even if you expand a lot. This is the 4th positive thing.

 

[Willem IV]

It's the best way to get rid of Danmark.

 

[Rain Envy]

Honestly best to stay as Sweden if you are using Sweden. Going Scandinavian means you lose Swedish events if I remember correctly. Not only that but personally I think scandanvia flag is so gross looking.

 

[Xara]

You get culture union. All scandinavian culture provinces would have no penalty even if you expand a lot. This is the 4th positive thing.

Too bad you'll still get freakin' missions asking you to culture convert those provinces.

 

[gaius valerius]

After searching for this answer and not finding it, it is a little bit puzzling to me.

The ONLY 3 positive things happening when pressing the "Form Scandinavia" button is, A new color and name, +tax for x years, 5 prestige.

That is it. Now, let us look at the negative sides. +1 revolt risk for x years (fair enough). Every single nation event you would have gotten if you didn't click the button is now gone for the rest of the game. Say WHAT???

Let us look at some other event Nations. Great Britain. All English events are carried over to the GB tag holder, does not matter if they are scottish or english in the first place.

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. All Polish and Lithuanian events are carried over, does not matter what nation that forms it.

Russia. Any Russian minor state, even Tver if they form Russia, will get all of the Muscovite/Russian events.

What happens if any Scandinavian nation forms Scandinavia? You destroy all of the events you previously would have gotten, for a new color and name.

What reason does anyone, even the AI, have to forming Scandinavia? Apart from the three positive things listed above, and NONE of those are enough.

Isn't that the case with nearly each nation you form... ? What changes when you form Germany? Unless it's a specific case like the Netherlands, Persia, Mughals and Japan (iirc) you simply keep your ideas when you form a country? Spain and Italy also don't really provide you anything extra now do they apart from cores and culture accepted? I heard people saying that forming Scandinavia makes you lose the Swedish events, that sucks pretty hard I guess. Well I've played Sweden many times but never formed Scandinavia for the single reason that it is FUGLY.

 

[Xara]

The difference is several nations KEEP their unique events and missions when they tag switch via nation formation.

Castile and Spain are the same event and mission set.
So is Brandenburg and Prussia.
France is a unique cultural union with its own set - if France is wiped out, any French culture group can reform it (like Guyenne) and receive those missions instead of their own generics.
England and Great Britain are the same set.
So is Muscovy and Russia.

There are a few cases where forming the nation changes your event and mission set while retaining your ideas.

Novgorod, for example, can form Russia. They keep their ideas, but will receive the Muscovy/Russia set of missions and events from then on.
Same thing for Portugal or Aragon forming Spain.

What is bad about Scandinavia?
It takes three potential sets of unique missions and events and replaces them with a generic, nothing-else-ever-happens cultural union.
It's garbage, particularly when playing the best one (Swedish reforms).
It's not worth forming Scandinavia, except perhaps as Norway, who has the worst starting position of them.

 

[Thetitan]

Agree, I missed the fact that All the cultures get accepted. Guess what? They are ALREADY accepted when you hold the provinces to click the button. They don't take up the culture spots (meaning that you can have other cultures accepted) witch is the only positive thing, but where around are you going to find enough provinces to get that new culture accepted? Half or Russia? If you inherit something like England it could be useful, but extremely situation.

Regarding Germany. There are only 2 nations with national events that can form Germany (not counting Saxony, that has 1 national event). Brandenburg/Prussia (witch have the same event file), Teutonic order, but they have to form Prussia first, and then get the Prussian/Brandenburg events and Austria but I am not sure on Austria.

Forming the Netherlands as any nations, do scrap your former national events, but the MAIN point, is that you get a ton of NEW events, as the new nation. Scandinavia has 0 events. There are reasons forming Germany and all the other nations. None what so ever for doing it with Scandinavia.

 

[Zanko Hale]

As there is only one Danish cultured TAG, one Norwegian and one Swedish - a simple rewrite of all (appropriate) DAN, NOR and SWE specific events along the lines of this should suffice:

namespace = flavor_dan

# The Pluralistic Reforms of Christian II
country_event = {
	id = flavor_dan.3285
	title = "flavor_dan.EVTNAME3285"
	desc = "flavor_dan.EVTDESC3285"
	picture = REFORM_eventPicture
	
	fire_only_once = yes
	
	trigger = {
		is_year = 1500
		NOT = { is_year = 1600 }
		OR = {
			tag = DAN
			primary_culture = danish
		}
	}
	
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 200
	}
	
	option = { # Reform the Government
		name = "flavor_dan.EVTOPTA3285"
		add_adm_power = 100
		add_dip_power = 100
		add_mil_power = 100
		random_owned_province = {
			limit = {
				continent = europe
			}
			create_revolt = 1
		}
	}
	option = { # Maintain Status Quo
		name = "flavor_dan.EVTOPTB3285"
		add_prestige = 5
	}
}

This event will fire for a Danish formed Scandinavia or Denmark, allowing you to keep the flavor.

Certain events such as Danish/Swedish events that check for Sweden/Denmark should be omitted from this change perhaps?

 

[Xara]

That would be absolutely a wreck for balance. Imagine Brandenburg conquering northward and culture shifting to Swedish. Swedish reforms on Prussia? I shudder.

 

[Zanko Hale]

Then you change the culture check to also check for the SCA tag. And re-write the SCA nation file to change you to danish/norwegian/swedish ideas. Bye bye Prussian ideas.

SWE_ideas = {
	start = {
		infantry_power = 0.15
		merc_maintenance_modifier = -0.25
	}

	bonus = {
		leader_shock = 1
	}
	
	trigger = {
		OR = {
		tag = SWE
		primary_culture = swedish
		}
	}
	free = yes		#will be added at load.

	kung_och_riksdag = {
		legitimacy = 1
	}
	swedish_steel = {
		discipline = 0.15
	}
	hakkapelitta = {
		cavalry_cost = -0.1
	}
	indelningsverket = {
		manpower_recovery_speed = 0.33
	}
	swedish_absolutism = {
		stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
	}
	produktplakatet = {
		production_efficiency = 0.1
	}
	union_and_security_act = {
		global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
	}
}

country_decisions = {

	scandinavian_nation = {
		major = yes
		potential = {
			NOT = { exists = SCA }
			NOT = { tag = PAP }
			NOT = { tag = HLR }
			culture_group = scandinavian
			OR = {
				ai = no
				AND = {
					ai = yes
					num_of_cities = 3
				}
			}
		}
		allow = {
			adm_tech = 10
			is_subject = no
			is_at_war = no
			owns = 1		# Uppland
			owns = 6		# Skane
			owns = 7		# Vastergotland
			owns = 12		# Sjaelland
			owns = 15		# Jylland
			owns = 17		# Akershus
			is_core = 1		# Uppland
			is_core = 6		# Skane
			is_core = 7		# Vastergotland
			is_core = 12	# Sjaelland
			is_core = 15	# Jylland
			is_core = 17	# Akershus
		}
		effect = {
			scandinavian_region = {
				limit = {
					NOT = { owned_by = ROOT }
				}
				add_claim = SCA
			}	
			add_country_modifier = {
				name = "centralization_modifier"
				duration = 7300
			}
			add_prestige = 10
			change_tag = SCA
			swap_free_idea_group = yes		#keep progress
		}
		ai_will_do = {
			factor = 0
		}
	}
	
}

 

[Thetitan]

Then you change the culture check to also check for the SCA tag. And re-write the SCA nation file to change you to danish/norwegian/swedish ideas. Bye bye Prussian ideas.

1 tiny issue with that idea. There is no SCA nation file.

 

[Zanko Hale]

1 tiny issue with that idea. There is no SCA nation file.

AND {
tag = SCA
primary_culture = swedish
}

checks if you are Scandinavia and your culture is Swedish before firing the event so:

OR = {
TAG = DAN
AND = {
TAG = SCA
primary_culture = danish
}
}

would let a Denmark formed Scandi to keep Danish events

 

[Thetitan]

AND {
tag = SCA
primary_culture = swedish
}

checks if you are Scandinavia and your culture is Swedish before firing the event

Ok, that would work.

The issue I had before thinking that this was not doable, was that the events where based on what Nation you are, and that there is no such thing in the game that remembers what nation you used to be when you tag switch.

However, playing as a colonial Denmark in 1.4, swapped to Scandinavia, and the Name generator for new colonial nations do remember I was danish, and suggests danish names for new nations.

 

[Zanko Hale]

Ok, that would work.

The issue I had before thinking that this was not doable, was that the events where based on what Nation you are, and that there is no such thing in the game that remembers what nation you used to be when you tag switch.

However, playing as a colonial Denmark in 1.4, swapped to Scandinavia, and the Name generator for new colonial nations do remember I was danish, and suggests danish names for new nations.

The colonial names pull from your primary culture, which remained Danish, amending the events like I suggested would essentially perform the same check "Is the player Denmark or a Danish cultured nation?"