Speaking of Hungary did anything change about it? Did anything else change in the Balkans? Wanna see the ottomans going for Áustria sometimes.
Say goodbye to vassal feeding (finally) - [Vassal feeding megathread]
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Thanks, yeah that's good rule of thumb.
Balanced is also a pain, because I think balanced basically means "they might be mil, they might be dip - YOU DONT KNOW!"
Anyway not a problem for me because I plan to play with aiview always enabledBut big hassle for Ironman users or those who don't want aiview on..
Meh Ironman doesnt allow that.
Anyways thats enough testing for now. Off to the new world!
It is apparently a third easier to core: +100% instead of +200%.
Of course, the best way to do it would be to use the bass ackward strategy someone else had already mentioned of repeatedly attacking them until you can vassalize them, then give them all their territory back. So far that seems to be the only way to get around the massive admin costs this patch placed on any human controlled nation. You essentially have to game the system much more than vassal feeding ever required. The only double coring costs might make the Hungary more attractive to the Ottomans, but what would you choose? Hundreds of admin points per province in Hungary or expanding into the middle east / asia? I'm guessing the AI will still choose a similar path.
Of course, the best way to do it would be to use the bass ackward strategy someone else had already mentioned of repeatedly attacking them until you can vassalize them, then give them all their territory back. So far that seems to be the only way to get around the massive admin costs this patch placed on any human controlled nation. You essentially have to game the system much more than vassal feeding ever required. The only double coring costs might make the Hungary more attractive to the Ottomans, but what would you choose? Hundreds of admin points per province in Hungary or expanding into the middle east / asia? I'm guessing the AI will still choose a similar path.
Thanks for all your details! Didn't take us that long to narrow it down, after all
Maybe I'll even go play a game myself now! I literally haven't played properly in two weeks now, I think, too much damn testing. Poland can into Asian Vassalisation, here we come..
If this is of any help: today in my first IM game as an irsh minor I made Connaught a vassal and they then accepted a claimed Ulster and a non-claimed Meath
It's this kind of result that makes me lose all faith in Paradox. What a idiotic design decision. Anybody could have seen that a mile away, and what? Poland and Russia should be able to vassalize Asian countries, but not Bohemia? Give me a break.
Foul language removed - Seelmeister
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From this part:
All cores but Gascogne. Now I didn't know much about the core situation in southern France, so I'll take it from your more recent post that I just read it wrong, and that Gascogne is to be counted separately. But the structure of the sentence seemed to imply that Gascogne was a core.
But I didn't read anything about you dropping a core on it? Only a claim on Languedoc...
You have managed to confuse me.
[EDIT] Interestingly I managed ot read, comprehend and then not add up the sentence:
urgh...
He, he, it appears winter holidays were celebrated with a bit too much zeal in Sweden.
It is not the first time PI has came up with a "brilliant idea" to "contain expansion" and strangely, every time it had to back down.
There was a coring time increase for large empires, but then they had to make it disapear by mid-late game.
Then there was insane AE that was scaling by the size of the country. They backed down on that also, and got rid of it in 1.4.
And now this thing in 1.4.
And in 1.5 this would be rolled back and some other stupidity put in place.
Eu4 lacks what to do in peace, so PI can not force people to not conquer half the globe, since this is the only thing to do in the game.
It is not the first time PI has came up with a "brilliant idea" to "contain expansion" and strangely, every time it had to back down.
There was a coring time increase for large empires, but then they had to make it disapear by mid-late game.
Then there was insane AE that was scaling by the size of the country. They backed down on that also, and got rid of it in 1.4.
And now this thing in 1.4.
And in 1.5 this would be rolled back and some other stupidity put in place.
Eu4 lacks what to do in peace, so PI can not force people to not conquer half the globe, since this is the only thing to do in the game.
I am beginning to question the design behind this game. Theres nothing to do in peacetime so all you do is conquer. But Paradox is just making conquest more and more annoying.
Anyone want to give me a simple and concrete TL;DR of what this entire thread/discussion means?
Cores and claims can be vassalfed.
AI Attitude has an influencing factor, but it is too arbitrary at the moment to actually determine what is possible to feed. However it is mostly safe to say that militaristic nations will take adjacent provinces even without a core or claim.
The answer to all questions of this sort is "steamroll the AIs in 50-100 years and then spend 90% of your time scheming with the other players, what do you mean you're the only player?"
I summarised it in a post earlier, but to be fair that's half way down the thread as it's been merged
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...megathread&p=16711253&viewfull=1#post16711253
Summary of the decider for whether a subject will buy a province is:
- core/claim = always buy
- non core/claim = only if they Want to Conquer it as shown in the Console command aiview.
- Nations with a leader who has personality Militaristic are far more likely to Want to Conquer everything around them
- Balanced leaders may, or may not
- Diplomatic leaders are very unlikely to.
- Admin / Trade personalities are unknown at this time.
It's not at all arbitrary if you check with aiview
But yes it's unclear / guesswork if you don't do that and just look at the Personality. Which is all you can do in Ironman of course.
Its arbitrary in the way that a balanced Portugal wont buy, but a balanced Orleans will, when - for the Ironman player - both show the same personality.
Yes it is - I posted about that earlier; there's now a max of 30 Base Tax on the target for DipVassalise. So you can't overcome any Base Tax modifier by maxing Trust and DipRel and Relative Military.
Sure I understand.
Do remember that in addition to these vassal feed changes, 1.4 makes it easier for direct conquest because of the no-scaling AE. And you say you want empire building and your name in big letters - so that's a big help, right?
Of course that's slightly tangential, because vassal feeding is mostly about admin cost, and that's mostly about AE. But it's a change in the direction you want, anyway.
I can't deny that vassal feeding now seems a lot more complex, and the strategy I suggested is far from straightforward, and far from logical. I think there's going to be a lot of people unhappy with the changes.
The irony is that probably this change doesn't make anyone happy, much. The "anti vassal feed" crowd won't be happy - despite their initial jubilation in all of the vassal feed threads - because it is still possible, and indeed the strategies used may be even more complex now. It'll make them upset to read about that, apparently. The "vassal feed" crowd mostly won't be happy because it got nerfed. And no-one's happy about how it wasn't announced, and how the UI isn't up to scratch, and all the rest.
Oh, well. I am determined to be happy
Oh, dude, don't get me wrong. I'm sure this will all be fine. To me 90% of this is tangental to the point of me enjoying the game. I just don't want to feel "forced" to play a colonial nation end-game to feel like I've "dominated the map". You're right the AE stuff will make a huge difference in expansion rate, but yea, like you said feeding was mostly about admin power. I would say the difference between a vassal feeding approach and a traditional DOW/annex approach pre 1.4 is the equivalent to admin points feeling like a heroine injection as opposed to an ice-cream cone on the need scale. (I like ice-cream).
When I was too bad at this game to understand the vassal system I remember admin points felt about 50x more valuable than the other 2 MP categories combined. After they felt about balanced. Can you imagine taking a chunk out of the netherlands post 1700 with say, Prussia? My god the AP cost is going to be insane. I think a rebalancing of coring costs would do the trick for me here 100%.
You're right though about the possibility of everyone disliking this. I would like to say that overwhelmingly this patch is a HUGE improvement on paper for me. SO many awesome changes. I'm just nervous about expansion right now because my buddies and I dont have any other outlet for our imperalist ambitions
Well yeah I guess. Let's say, for Ironman/players not wanting to use aiview, it's opaque.
I won't say arbitrary because more likely than not there is some explanation why the Portugal balanced wanted nothing but the others did. For example, maybe nations that feel threatened want to take more territory? In my example, Portugal borders no-one but their own vassal overlord Castile (me). They had no threats at all, no border friction, no nations of a similar size nearby that might want to rival them. Nothing to worry about. All of this probably factors in. And maybe in time we can work out more of the factors, and give non-aiview players more to go on.
I agree that, at least until we do work out more of those factors, without aiview it's going to be pretty hard to work out whether a province will or won't be bought by a Balanced leader. That could suck, unless the player likes that element of chance/risk. I will always play with aiview because I want to factor that into my strategising and puzzle solving.
This is the best post in this whole thread and hits the nail squarely on the head. I'm not in love with vassal feeding, it was just the best way to actually expand your empire. The only ways left now are even more gamey than the previous methods or require you to expand at a snails pace while suffering high overextension and a serious lack of admin points. The thing is, if this isn't an empire building game, then what in the world is it? There isn't a whole lot to do in the game outside of wars of conquest and preparing for those wars.
I havent had time to dl and try the new patch, but are cores still disappearing by 1544 if you release a re-emerging nation?
I dont mind vassals not accepting non cored provinces, but then remove the core disappearing feature (which is stupid and ahistorical)
Also can vassals fabricate claims? I thought that vassals couldnt do anything once under the protrction of the overlord?
I dont mind vassals not accepting non cored provinces, but then remove the core disappearing feature (which is stupid and ahistorical)
Also can vassals fabricate claims? I thought that vassals couldnt do anything once under the protrction of the overlord?