Save the Poles and Lithuanians from themselves?

[HydroAC]

I'm playing France for the first time using Arumba's HRE strategy: ally and RM 6 electors & Castile (going way over relationship limit) and then rival Austria, generating a malus with elector allies against Austria

It is 1498 and so far it has worked well. The BI fired ~1455 before I was Emperor, so I got half and Austria the rest. The Austrian von Hapsburg emperor finally died at 62, having a daughter as the heir. So I was elected HRE Emperor ~1480 in a landslide. Infertile Enrique (0-0-0) keeled over at ~55 with no heir and I got a free PU on Castile. I vassalized and later integrated Brittany, and then took Naples from Aragon in our 2nd war. Half of England/Scotland/Ireland has been eaten - lower AE on the mainland for taking land there. I've nibbled other areas of Europe, being careful to avoid a coalition.

Then Poland vassallzed Brandenburg, and between the -0.1 IA malus for a vassalized elector and the firing of the Shadow Kingdom IA generation was zero. So I attacked Poland to free Brandenburg. Unhappily for Poland/Lit, the coalition they triggered when vassalizing Brandenburg also attacked. When as they were on their knees Hungary and Austria attacked Poland/Lit.

Needless to say, Poland lost its PU on Lithuania and the coalition is still beating the tar out of them. They have no allies of consequence, so it is quite clear that Muscovy and the Ottomans (who are allied) will swoop in and eat them both.

So the question: should France ally Poland and Lithuania so they have a Big Blue Brother to prevent them from being consumed? I really do not want Muscovy to have free Orthodox lands, and the last thing I want is the Ottomans eating Poland. I could play Game of Thrones with the elective monarchy in Poland, too.

So the trade off: my relationship limit will take a bigger hit. Right now I have 6 slots and 9 relationships - 6 electors, Castile, Naples, and Portugal (who has no heir and is 66 - I'll get another PU with a bit of luck). I can deal with a -3 diplo a turn, but -5 with new alliances/RM with Poland and Lithuania? maybe cut loose a few electors, perhaps those that have no RM due to government type? Or ally one: Poland or Lithuania? I'm planning on integrating Naples ASAP to free up a diplo slot.

My ideas are Admin (4 done) and Influence (1 done). I'm focused on diplo and am making 9 a turn, which is good considering. An additional monthly diplo hit will mean it takes forever to get Influence completed.

Advice?

 

[Robert de Bruce]

I'd care more for losing too much dip points, especially when having so few ideas after over 50 years playing. I don't see a real problem when Muscowy gets some lthuanian provinces. Usually they are so low on money, they can't upgrade forts and an only field a mass infantry army, making them easy to beat as long as you can cut them off before reaching some rich lands. Ottos are another thing, but when they eat southern Poland they won't eat Hungary most likely, so anyway. Best thing would be you join in and prevent Muscowy and Ottos from taking too much by taking yourself.

 

[Dominion]

Never.Ally.Poland.

They are only useful to be thrown in someone's face, then cast aside immediately after. That's it.

Let them have that dirt poor land. Ignore the east. Watch Russia and Ottos rival each other because Russia gets free claims on Crimea (which will have been annexed by Ottos by then) and enjoy spectating their tenth war in a row.

Focus on your own game in the meanwhile. Mark Portugal as vital interest so Spain fabricates on them, then vassalize them. With England and Brittany off the table the whole world is yours to colonize and yours only.

That's a free victory already. Ottos and Russia will never reach you.

 

[HydroAC]

Hmmmm...I see your points.

Hungary is big in this game. They ate Wallachia, Bosnia, most of Serbia (a noticeable Ragusa got the rest), and nearby Venician lands. They're allied to Austria, so they have a Big Brother and the Ottos have left them alone. And as an interesting side note, their ruler is 56 with no heir. I just RMed them and may get my dynasty on their throne, and if they have no immediate heir I'll claim their throne. THEN I will have access to Polish lands and I can eat them. I'll also have land to add to the HRE.

I just got Elan!, but I am falling behind in my Ideas and my diplo tech is 1 behind. I just started integrating Naples, so I won't catch up in diplo any time soon.

I'll look into cutting loose an Elector or two. Having 6 allied and 3 of those RMed is likely excessive. Bohemia has my dynasty on their throne, so I may claim that if I can. When I inherit/integrate I get to be King instead of Duchy for empire rank, which is useful as HRE Emperor. A PU Bohemia during the Reformation is very handy since I can Force Religion instead of having to break them up, which takes time and manpower. I can use them to fabricate on Poland, too, if they are a PU.

After the PU possibilities of Hungary and Portugal work themselves out I'm attacking Denmark to get HRE land back and get a few French outposts for the Reformation (and keep the Danes out of mainland Europe!). I wonder if I can take Norway as a vassal from them? They may be too big even with the Transfer Subject with Age of Discovery.

Dominion - you are quite correct that as HRE Emperor I need to keep my eye on the ball (Europe) until Reform #7. Thanks for the reminder.

So with that in mind, Poland/Lit are a distraction. I did mark Portugal as Vital Interest and Castile does have a few claims. So even if I don't get the free PU I can eat a few provinces and then vassalize them. They are the only country so far with Exploration&Expansion (Castile chose Religious and Defensive), so with England (who have 1 idea in Exploration, and no 2nd Idea group) being eaten and Scotland next there are very few colonizers left. This suggests that my 4th Idea should be Exploration (3rd Religious to deal with the Reformation) so I can grab the New World and make it blue.

 

[PhoenixG]

imo getting 6 out of the 7 electors to vote for you is overkill. You only need 4 out of 7, so at the start of the game you only require ally + RM 4 electors instead of 6. It will save you like 3 dip a month.

You won't be an elector if you integrate Bohemia, only if you inherit it. As in when your ruler dies you get their land for free.