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Oriflamme

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Honestly, just play your game the way you feel comfortable playing it. I don't do it often because it makes your achievements feel a lot less rewarding, but if you want to, just do it. After all, who cares? It's not like we're watching you play...

...or are we? :ninja:
 

gja102

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Isn't pausing "cheating" aswell?

How so?
"Ok, King, we conquered Isreal. You have to reassign each holding in the Holy Land to nobles of your court, BUT QUICK YOU ONLY HAVE 50 SECONDS!"

Lol. Of course, you still can take an unfair amount of time to make decisions... if you take more than 400 years to finish your game.


Anyway, on topic, it does seem a shame to save-scum the randomness out of CK when the entire game was build around dynamic, character-driven narrative. You're supposed to have dramatic ups-and-downs.

Also, by all means reload furiously if you want, but when you've gamed the mechanics to become King of Everything in 50 years, don't then complain the game is too easy. (I know most players don't do that, but still)
 

takedown47

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The problem is having a bad ruler causes the kingdom to fall apart which makes sense expect it doesn't add up historically. idiot kings would make good kings from a vassal's perspective because they can be easily manipulated and controlled. on that note, how common were mass independence civil wars that caused England to look like a kid with acne?
 

Persiani

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Lol I wish I was savescumming now. Lost all of Ireland, Got kicked out of the kingdom i created. They placed me in a duchy in brittany. (yes conquered britanny) so I was like okay screw them and started conquering in to the french land fought for indepedence and won half of Ireland and all of Britanny (some of france) !!! My cousin is the king of Ireland and I am the ruler of the Great Kingdom of Brittaney lol

but I want my Ireland :( that green color i dont want to be this pink/purple/lavender thing
 

ZechsMerquise73

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I'm not sure what save scumming is. I guess you mean reloading. I never reload. Rolling with the punches is what makes the game interesting. If you want to win at everything, why not just use cheat codes?
 

gja102

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The problem is having a bad ruler causes the kingdom to fall apart which makes sense expect it doesn't add up historically. idiot kings would make good kings from a vassal's perspective because they can be easily manipulated and controlled. on that note, how common were mass independence civil wars that caused England to look like a kid with acne?

1066 - Saxon succession crisis / Norweigan Invasion / Norman Invasion
1070 - Harrying of the North - independence revolts in Northern England
1088-1106 - Royal Succession crisis / independence revolts in Northumbria and northern France
1135-1153 - Period known as “The Anarchy”

So just looking at the first 100 years of gameplay, it seems England was suffering independence revolts of some form or other for at least 40% of the time. (that’s before you even get to the Plantagenets, who suffered revolts so often they form the basis of several Shakespeare plays).

I guess the kings of England couldn’t save/reload...
 

Bertouch

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So just looking at the first 100 years of gameplay, it seems England was suffering independence revolts of some form or other for at least 40% of the time. (that’s before you even get to the Plantagenets, who suffered revolts so often they form the basis of several Shakespeare plays).

I guess the kings of England couldn’t save/reload...

I know the above isn't meant to be taken literally. ;) Still, in case anybody reads that and assumes it was meant for the truth: Richard II is about a tussle for power between a king who appoints and follows his own chosen advisers (who were extremely bad at it) and the usual nobility. Henry IV is about rebellion, but John was about bringing the king to terms with the nobility who said he was taking too much control away from them in their own fiefdoms, not revolution. (And the Magna Carta isn't about liberty for people, contrary to our nationalist myths, but about the most powerful few arguing over who gets to squeeze how much blood from those they control.) Henry VI is a play about a weak ruler engaged in dealing poorly with rebellions and his own court.

But the others are about war (which along with gawking at rulers is what chronicle plays are all about, and facts often be damned), not rebellions of independence. Henry V is about flag-waving and showing the French who's boss. Richard III is complete fiction, based on a piece of fabrication designed by the York propaganda machine to smear the last Plantagenet. Not independence wars, but a faction wanting the throne that knew how to make traitors for a war, and kill off all other resistance very quietly.

So three of the Shakespeare chronicle plays are about nobility seeking to revolt against kings. Which isn't to say that the expansionist English didn't face rebellion frequently from the strong neighbors they tried to control, or from border forces of their own, or from power blocs near the throne. But most of it was dealt with grimly, directly, and wasn't exciting. It was far more likely to generate a hit play if you wrote about fictionalized characters in warlike situations near enough in time to be very dimly remembered, with a strong dose of patriotism thrown in.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(462833)

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Game can be really funny when You don't reload. Was really interesting when I played as Kingdom of Taurica (and few more lands) and had succesion crisis after my female heir get the throne. After tough war I won, meanwhile Emperor was defending against few claimants. There was a chance to install claimant but suddenly my Queen died due to old age - she was really old, had... 24 years old ;) . When she died I had to face new faction and I lost a chance to install my family claimant in Byzantine Empire, I was to weak to fight on two fronts. When I finally won, Emperor made a white peace with claimants. Oh yes, I could reload and under my queen I could depose Emperor (while he was defending against other claimants) and get my family claimant in Byzantine - but it is a point in this game ? Game is giving me big chance to survive and continue my road to glory, even when I can't do something in a moment. In this game I finally pushed my "favourite claimant" (not yet from my dynasty, but married with it so heirs are from my dynasty) on Byzantine throne but just waited... 60 years more. Meanwhile I dealt with few rebellions and just gained more power, lowered Crown Authority once (with supporters off course, we didn't fight even, cause Empress surrendered immidiately when Fatimits declared war. We have won without even one fight ;) ). Conclusion ? Reload in important moment, and could really change the game and make it easier. And could destroy my interesting game I had for about 60 years ;)
 

A_Dane

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Just had a very interesting developement in a game as Denmark recently..

I managed to get my wife on the swedish throne, where she quickly got murdered followed by a revolt against my son. He went and died in battle against the rebels (my army was en route to help..) and his 6 year old son took over. Fast forward a few years and my ruler dies as well, leaving me as an underage king of all scandinavia, Finland and Lithaunia.

That turned into a god damn bloody mess, was attempted murdered 3 times -.- played through it though and am now Emperor of Scandinavia :p (and known as the cruel)
 

Mods

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Completed an entire game starting from a count without savescumming, there was a lot of BS along the way, but that just makes it more satisfying when things go your way again.
Really the game is way too easy if you do it.
 

NewbieOne

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When starting out, it was tough not to save/reload but since I've started to look at CK2 as less of a game to win and more of a story engine I've had much more fun dealing with the bad cards you are sometimes dealt.

It's kind of the same for me, although I'm only at the start of the same road. It's hard to unlearn the old habits and I guess I'm still going to reload if I botch something due to an oversight or a technical reason (e.g. can't manage 3 things a time at highest speed; forget the coming-of-age or some other material date of someone important etc.) or even a missed opportunity (e.g. new marriage of a landed woman means she must've been single one save ago etc.). In AARs I sometimes reload for story reasons, as there are some things I just want to happen. But my current Land's End AAR is one where I don't reload, even if I make a stupid decision (not decided yet about technical army micromanagement stuff if I ever get to have larger armies).

You never know too, that big disaster just might set up a new opportunity down the road. I may do a little save loading when trying out a feature that I'm unsure of the effects for the first time, but that is just to understand the mechanics.

Yup.
 

cobrabb

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I'm now playing my first game with no save-scumming, and it's the most fun I've had yet. I used to save-scum for when I made stupid mistakes (like sending my 3 martial king into battle). However, the only time I did in this game so far has been when I accidentally declared holy war for the middle of Arabia instead of the territory I wanted in Spain (due to a mis-click).

On a somewhat related note, how does everyone feel about using cheats? Personally, I've used the "play charid" cheat a few times when someone of my dynasty managed to become Emperor instead of me. There were a few times before I got elective that this happened, and so I just switched over to the winner after he won. I think it made the game more fun, and since I wanted elective anyways, it was pretty much elective, but with violence (and the added penalty of losing my previous score).
 

smikis

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dont care about those only reload if i made major mistake, like attacked 20k army with 30k, and suddenly i am fighting 40k army, in middle of my territory, did i missed second 20k stack, or game just went screw you on me, and on those ocasions when you have 80% won war, and suddently that enemy surrenders to big nation ( rebellion or so on ) knowing i could pressed assault and won war.. those i usually reload because its kinda silly random worst is when you beat all big guys army so he cannot possibly win war,sometimes they still do..
 

Mods

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dont care about those only reload if i made major mistake, like attacked 20k army with 30k, and suddenly i am fighting 40k army, in middle of my territory, did i missed second 20k stack, or game just went screw you on me, and on those ocasions when you have 80% won war, and suddently that enemy surrenders to big nation ( rebellion or so on ) knowing i could pressed assault and won war.. those i usually reload because its kinda silly random worst is when you beat all big guys army so he cannot possibly win war,sometimes they still do..
Those are 2 situations i wouldn't reload in , they're war related and losing wars isn't disastrous at all, like it is in other paradox games. Just learn to live with the punches, major mistakes are part of the game ;)
I'd reload though if say, I've bethroded my heir to a queen (normal marriage) and when the betrothal ends she ask for a matrilineal marriage and I don't notice.
 
Last edited:

Anthropoid

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To me, a game like this is all about fostering your imagination, thinking and delight at the narrative as well as a sense of accomplishment at having mastered the game dynamics. To the extent that reloading promotes those 'benefits' for the player it is, as singleplayer strategy/rpg game, completely legitimate and even advisable within quite narrow limits.

With complex games like this one, reloading is IMO essential when you are first learning the game and the specificities of how the myriad things work, for example the inheritance laws, combat, the storylines for complex contingent things like plots, etc.. The available resources for the player (manual, wiki, forum help) are not always perfectly clear, despite the fact that the game is algorithmic (meaning that there IS a binary answer to any question that can be posed, assuming all relevant values are known), and no I don't find it plausible that the character in the game would do something like press a claim for his spouse without understanding the consequences of the inheritance laws.

So in sum: when you do something stupid, and in particular when that is a reflection of not being completely familiar with the game mechanics, NOT reloading, and instead subjecting yourself to a restart (which will often involve replaying long periods of tedium) is I think a pretty good way to cause you to lose interest in the game and thus, cheat yourself even more.

But beyond that, I don't see the point of reloading simply because you didn't like something or found it to be 'implausible.' That I think is intended to be part of the game, in that history itself is full of some pretty wild twists and turns and watershed moments where fortunes swung from wonderful to terrible or vice versa. I agree with several previous posters that "rolling with those punches" is part of the fun of the game.

So in sum my philosophy:
1. When learning or relearning a strategy game, reloading because you made a decision that you didn't actually understand is a smart way to NOT cheat yourself

2. Once you should know better, committing #1 simply to get a 'better' outcome is likely to start to take the fun out of your game and cheat yourself

3. Reloading habitually, simply for the sake of a better dice roll or to avoid what you thought was a simply implausible outcome is very likely to cumulatively take the fun out of your game and cheat yourself.
 

DarkPhoenix

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I usually don't savescum, because I like the developing drama, and because I'm a role player by heart (and because I'm often too lazy to resign, reload and replay up to 5 months since my last autosave). But if something stupid happens, and really angers me, I will reload. Because, you know, this is a game. Meant to be fun. Being angry is not fun. :)
Besides that, I don't thing pondering about the pros and cons of quicksaving and quickloading really is worth the effort for me ;)
 

jfinley12

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The only time I have reloaded is when my entire line was wiped out by smallpox playing as Ireland. I have to admit after I did the game was never really satisfying for me, lesson learned now I don't do it. Unless I am not sure what a certain feature does like creating your own pope. I did that once because I thought it would let me declare war on anybody sadly it did not.
 
Last edited:

NecroRenegade

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I struggle with this, sometimes I'm really tempted to reload a save if something goes wrong. However, sometimes screwing up can be interesting. For example, in one of my play throughs none of my children or theirs heirs were male so it looked like I was stuck with having female rulers for 3 generations. I then made the decision to switch to seniority in my kingdom and that turned out to be a big mistake when my 92 old queen died and her successor was a bumbling idiot with 1 diplomacy and 0 stewardship. Needless to say, my kingdom plunged into civil war, and it was looking as if I'd lose my king title. I was ready to go all the way back to reverse this but I decided not to do that. So over the the next twenty years after losing my king itle as a duke I managed to get my kingdom back as another powerful duke formed a faction in support of my son becoming king. I joined and civil war went on. We won but before he became king my own son murdered me! I then became king again! However this guy was just as idiotic ad his father but thankfully he died at 36. His successor aas a much more capable man. I switched to elective and am now playing as a king with 11 dip and 18 stewardship. This whole process was really fun surprisingly.
 

Beagá

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Save scumming is a problem in all modern games and Paradox games should have a similar system to XCOM Ironman. Totally optional, but should exist.